Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

Again with Oregon

Started by Leigh, October 19, 2005, 10:27:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

stephanie_craxford

Actually Sheila, I don't think that I do. 

I may be having a blond moment here, but are you trying to say that any trans person should have the right to shower using the facilities they identify with, as long as they have the proper documentation?  ID Card, etc... regardless of their transitional status, i.e. pre-op, post op.
  •  

Sheila

Stephanie, I'm sorry but I'm not really good with words. What the proposed ordinance wants to say is that a trans person could shower without any documentation, all they have to say is they are transgender or they don't even have to say that as that is documenting the trans person. What I want is that the trans person should use some finesse in the showers, like if you were MtoF and you had breast but were preop that maybe you should wear your shorts into the showers or bathing suit bottoms. Same with FtoM after top surgery. I want all people to feel comfortable going to a gym or if it is a shelter that people will feel comfortable going into it. Does that make any more sense?
Sheila
  •  

stephanie_craxford

Hello Sheila,

OK now I understand.  BUT I can't agree.  There is no way on gods green earth that you will convince any GG that you are a woman going into a shower wearing shorts, panties, bathing suit bottoms, duck tape or any other technique for hiding the penis of a pre-op MtF.  And how are you going to hide the breasts and pubic area of a pre-op FtM, a bikini would be a dead give away.  For myself a REAL life test is being able to pass and live your life as a normal female would, and being accepted in that role by anyone who you would come into contact with.  You/we have to be realistic, this is not a perfect world and it never will be, no matter how much legislation, documentation, letters, and everything else that you may have backing you up.

Quotea trans person could shower without any documentation, all they have to say is they are transgender or they don't even have to say that as that is documenting the trans person

I can see where all the pervs in this world would love and support this.  Here I am MrClicktoseenakedladiesintheshower.com showering away with my bathing suit bottoms on and all I have to say is that I'm OK cause I'm a transsexual, and I don't need proof, cause that would be labeling me.

Not for me, although I am a woman, I have to respect nat woman and the inherent and ingrained fears that they have learned about males over the centuries.  To ignore this would be to ignore womanhood, the thing we strive to achieve.

Hmmmmm Just my thoughts,

Steph
  •  

Leigh

The key wording in the Portland ordinance is: their gender or transitional status.  Just because a drivers license has an F on it does not mean that you are anatomically female.  This lets the facility ask if you are post   If you ain't you ain't taking a shower.

I would never support any legislation that gives admittance to any Health or athletic clubs or other entities that operate gender-specific facilities involving public nudity such as showers and locker rooms, that gave free rein to a person claiming they were T whatever!  Again the key words here are public nudity.

Provide  post op documentation and I would not say a word.

I had more respect for women and myself to ever consider doing something that stupid.

Leigh
  •  

stephanie_craxford

Quote from: Leigh on November 12, 2005, 12:00:17 AM
The key wording in the Portland ordinance is: their gender or transitional status.  Just because a drivers license has an F on it does not mean that you are anatomically female.  This lets the facility ask if you are post   If you ain't you ain't taking a shower.

I would never support any legislation that gives admittance to any Health or athletic clubs or other entities that operate gender-specific facilities involving public nudity such as showers and locker rooms, that gave free rein to a person claiming they were T whatever!  Again the key words here are public nudity.

Provide  post op documentation and I would not say a word.

I had more respect for women and myself to ever consider doing something that stupid.

Leigh

I didn't think you would Leigh  :) , I have to agree 100% with you.  I must have misunderstood the intention of the ordinance and the entitlements of the facilities providing such services described.  I was thinking in the back of my mind that it sounded a little outlandish when I first read it as I didn't see the part referring to quote:

QuoteThis lets the facility ask if you are post

Thanks again Leigh and Sheila  :)

Chat later,

Steph
  •  

Thundra

<< Again the key words here are public nudity. >>
  Abso-tively!!!!

It isn't even really appropriate for strangers to dress/undress in front of others in a public situation, where everyone else is the same sex. I realize that there will always be exceptions, and I don't mean to sound like a prude. But if your going to be discrete, than please be as discrete as possible.

So, the public display of nudity in a situation where you are the opposite sex of everyone else is totally inappropriate IMNSHO!
Screw the documentation!  If you pull that deal, you are a perp.
and you are goin' down!  Bad boys, bad boys, what ya gonna do...
  •  

Sheila

To all who have been talking with me on this. I wish you were all at the table with me. I agree with all that has been said. I mean it. What is going on down here and I have been alone on this for the last two years maybe three now. I'm up against some college kids who call themselves Gender queer. They think that there shouldn't be any documentation, like someone said here, tattoos on the wrist, that you could use any facility that you feel like useing because the poor can't get documentation let alone surgery. Some even feel that sometimes they feel male and sometimes they feel female. Now, all these people have been going to college and or have graduated with some sort of degree. I have a high school diploma and a degree in BS (bull sh--). I know what other ordinance around the country have and I do know what some of the ordinance in Canada and in other parts of the world. Most say exactly what all of you have said. When I stood up and my friend stood with me, by the way she was on the front page of our paper down here, I got slapped in the face by splitting up the trans community down here. I'm trying to make compromises down here with the HRC and also trying to make something pass through city council. Leigh, I have been working on this for a long time,since that time I met you down here 3 years ago. I'm getting frustrated as I have transitioned and really don't need any ordinance anymore and feel like giving up. I won't there are too many people who really need an ordinance. I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place and I really don't know where to go. No, I don't want the opposite gender in the shower. I'm trying to compromise with all. Go to Eugene, Oregon Human Rights Commission and look up gender identity and the proposed ordinance, then go to section 4.635 1 (c). This is what the gender queer's came up with.
Enough said by me.
Sheila
  •  

Leigh

Shiela

Has L. B. been of any help?

It sounds like you are where I was a few years ago.  Why put myself out there when all it does it make me a target for both sides?

Leigh
  •  

stephanie_craxford

Hello Sheila,

Would it do any good for us to start a letter writing campaign, or has that been done to death.  Or is there any other way that the TG community can help, acknowledging the distances most of us are from Oregon.

Steph
  •  

Sheila

Letters can always help. The Address is
Eugene City Hall
777 Pearl st
Eugene, Or. 97401
www.eugene-or.gov  that will get you their website it might also get you e-mail if you leave off the www. I don't know that.
Leigh, L.B. has helped a little but they are not listening to her as is older and put into place an ordinance that shouldn't have been put into place in the first place. Too much discrimination.
Sheila
  •  

Leigh

Quote from: Sheila on November 13, 2005, 07:08:00 PM
but they are not listening to her as is older and put into place an ordinance that shouldn't have been put into place in the first place. Too much discrimination.


Who is saying that the ordinance here should not have been put into place and what discrimination?
  •  

Leigh

Lincoln City



Lincoln City, Oregon Approves Equal Rights Ordinance

Lincoln City officials unanimously approved an Equal Rights Ordinance - the first of its kind on the Oregon coast - in front of a full house audience at city hall Monday night. The ordinance provides legal recourse - enforced by the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries (BOLI) - for anyone subjected to discrimination based on race, religion, color, sex, marital status, national origin, age, disability, sexual orientation, and gender identity.
  •  

beth

             Is that just for employment or does it cover housing, accomodations services etc?

             It is good that they have something either way.


beth
  •  

Leigh

Quote from: melissa_girl on November 18, 2005, 12:01:42 PM
Oh, I just saw your link above your summary Leigh. ::)

About what I would expect from some who lives in the Couve  :)
  •  

beth

                  I missed the link too, but then I'm living in yuppieville so I have an excuse.



beth
  •  

Cassandra

QuoteWhy is it that only Oregonians refer to it as "the Couve"?

Probably the same reason Californicators refer to Oregonians as Oregoonians. Neighbor state rivalry.  ;D

Cassie
  •  

Leigh

Quote from: melissa_girl on November 18, 2005, 11:50:43 PM
Why is it that only Oregonians refer to it as "the Couve"?

Its the easiest way to differentiate you from the one in BC.

I took no offense at all.  I knew you were just jealous cause we don't have sales tax.

Leigh
  •  

Thundra

<<<<< Not at all.  It goes to our schools. >>>>>

Schools?  We don't need no stinkin' schools!!

I mean really, how much schooling does one need to work at Starducks....hmmm?

Oh, and by the way, I worked with someone from "the couv" and he and plenty of the folx that worked up there called it "the couv" even though they were from "the couv," so there!

And California natives?  Shouldn't we call them islanders, as in don't you mean the future island state of Pacifica?
  •  

Leigh

Quote from: Thundra on November 19, 2005, 08:52:21 AM
  how much schooling does one need to work at Starducks....hmmm?


hmmm.  All this time I thought it was Charbucks.
  •  

Sheila

I guess I should call myself an ex Pacifica and now a transplanted Oregoonia who lives down from the Couv. I have never heard of all that, but then again, look where I came from.
Sheila
  •