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After waiting three months, this!

Started by suzifrommd, October 13, 2012, 11:32:11 AM

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suzifrommd

The therapist who had been recommended to me told me that before he took me on, I needed to go through an evaluation at the Johns Hopkins Sexual Behaviors Consultation Unit. Because of this, my therapy has been on hold for three months, the soonest an appointment was available.

My evaluation was yesterday and I found it a harrowing experience. I feel like I waited all this time just to get less than professional treatment.

Are my expectations too high? Is this the way I should expect to be treated?

* The resident who interviewed me had only worked with one transgender person before. She immediately addressed me as Mr. G___ (I'm not actually sensitive about being misgendered, but many are. Shouldn't she have asked? Esp. given that I was dressed in a wig and women's clothes.)
* The initial interview asked me very little about what being transgender meant to me. A lot about my history, my family, my job, my sexual fantasies, my relationship history. It almost seemed like the questions about transgender were an afterthought.
* After an hour break, I was brought in to see the teaching doctor, who I knew had been watching through glass. His questions felt almost like a cross-examination. When I asked him why he took an adversarial stance, he said he didn't think I had put enough thought into the decision to transition. (Is transition a decision? Doesn't feel that way to me. Feels like something I'm being driven to by the difference between my insides and my outsides.)
* He asked me questions like, how did I know I wouldn't hate having breasts and what would happen if other women didn't accept me as one of them after transition. (Have other Trans women been asked questions like these? How did you answer?)
* He kept bringing up his concerns that I didn't hate my body. "I've seen people who hated touching their body so much that they couldn't bear to urinate standing up." He seemed to think accepting my male genitals made my case atypical. (Aren't there a lot of trans women that don't hate the male parts of their bodies? And is there any such thing as a typical Trans case?)
* After the questions, he gave me his conclusions: That I was suffering from Gender Identity Disorder and that he would refer me to a therapist who specialized in transgender people. (Did I really need a four-hour evaluation for that? Wouldn't it have been easier to ask what my problem is and what I needed? And isn't transgender no long a "disorder"?)
* He also raised his voice to me and told me that transitioning without taking my teenage children to see a therapist was irresponsible. (Is it precedented for a mental health professional to raise his voice at an adult client? And does a therapist really need to oversee all elements of a transition? Is it possible that transgender parents might be competent to decide whether and when their children need therapy and be trusted to provide it when needed?)
* I got the impression that it was assumed my aim to transition would be considered hasty and impulsive until my answers demonstrated otherwise. (Isn't that kind of treating me like a child? Shouldn't it be assumed that an adult knows what is needed unless responses indicate the contrary?)
* After I was greeted on the way in, the first office I was led past belonged to Paul McHugh (McHugh argued in the 1970s that transgender people were delusional and that SRS only fed into their delusions. He set back transgender care by decades. He was forced to retire, but apparently still has an office there. Wouldn't parading me by his office be just a tad insensitive?).

For people who've gone through therapy: Is this typical? Am I just being thin-skinned?
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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twit

I think you should have sought another therapist as soon as they wanted to send you to Hopkins to be evaluated. That's the therapist's job in my opinion.

When I did therapy, I sought one out, found her, called her and she called back later and set an appointment. No muss, no fuss. She was just surprised that my dad took the second call because I was gone somewhere and he already knew everything and agreed to the appointment time for me.
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Elsa

Ok ... first off your not being thin-skinned.

After reading the last point I don't think anyone who's transgender should even go near that place and it seems most probable that the guy who mentors, guides and coaches and is considered top doctor over there is Paul McHugh. Otherwise, he would not have been given an office at that location.

That would explain the hostile and uncaring behavior that was shown by the others there.

Also, like most transgender women I hate my genitals but they are also a part of me so I get mixed emotions at the thought of having them taken off and its something am not yet ready for. But when the time is right, they would be gone.

Till then, I have taken a kinda utilitarian approach to having them. the only advantages from my POV for me having it, is it makes it easier and faster when I need to pee quickly and definitely mote comfortable when the loo is not exactly sanitary. At home, I have completely stopped peeing standing up unless I have no choice. So it's more like making use of things while they last but I don't really care for them.

Also, I sincerely believe the teaching doctor was and is a moron, and like most people doesn't know a d*** thing about being transgender. Also if they have treated just a few trans folk then they definitely won't know much since they would only have stereotypes to go by.

What few know about being transgender is that each transgendered person is unique each is going through a situation that although has a lot of apparent similarities, each one's situation is completely unique.
Sometimes when life is a fight - we just have to fight back and say screw you - I want to live.

Sometimes we just need to believe.
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eli77

Johns Hopkins has a vile reputation. I'm not particularly surprised at your treatment. I'm more surprised that your therapist would refer you there. It makes me really suspicious of your therapist to be honest.

http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/johns-hopkins.html
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Arch

Jeebus. I hope you don't mind having a guy weigh in. Your McHugh is the equivalent of Leslie Lothstein (for FTMs), except that McHugh apparently still has some clout. If I had had to walk by Lothstein's office on my way in or out of my first session, I would have assumed the worst and maybe never gone back.

I am glad that you have your head together more than I did.

I think you know the answers to all of your questions. Of course they should have called you Ms. Of course they should not have been adversarial. Of course you're the one who decides whether one or both kids need counseling. And so on.

I don't think you are being thin-skinned at all. But as to whether yours is a typical experience...I've read about so many different experiences. I would still not call this typical--not these days, but maybe twenty or thirty or forty years ago! Nor would I call it supportive or even reasonable.

So I guess I'm just here to offer my support. Don't let the bastards get you down.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Shantel

Geeeze what a load of crap you had to endure! I'm with Arch and the rest, get another counselor!
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RedFox

Agrfrommd, I'm so sorry to hear about your treatment - they were definitely out of line and unprofessional!

It seems to me they had pre-judged you and were forcing you to try to "convince" them that their judgement was wrong - that something was "wrong" with you.

I hate hearing stories like this.  Can't these people realize that for many of us the only thing "wrong" with us is being born into the wrong bodies?  It's true that some have issues with anxiety or other conditions that warrant treatment or therapy, but GID is NOT a mental illness!

I've only recently started therapy, but so far my therapist has been great!

I thought that they'd revised the SOC to say that Therapy wan't mandatory?  You only need to get letters from two doctors giving approval for SRS, right?


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suzifrommd

Thank you so much everybody for the supportive response. It has REALLY helped. I really did think I was just being a spoiled princess coming out of there and it's nice to hear objective viewpoints that support mine.

Axelle, I feel for you. No one should have to go through what the put you through. So unnecessary. You are one tough lady.

SageFox, thanks for the info about the SOC. If I'm unsatisfied with the referral I get from them, I'm going to see about that route.

The thing is the therapist who referred me there IS highly regarded in the Trans community, and another therapist from that group is actually well-recommended on Susan's site. I'm inclined still to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's possible that as a condition of their affiliation with Hopkins, they had to agree to send patients there for an evaluation, or that they have no idea how bad it is. I will certainly ask A LOT of questions about that before I agree to become their client.

Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Beth Andrea

Quote from: agfrommd on October 15, 2012, 07:58:09 AM
Thank you so much everybody for the supportive response. It has REALLY helped. I really did think I was just being a spoiled princess coming out of there and it's nice to hear objective viewpoints that support mine.

...


That is the insidiousness of emotional abuse (which is what you endured at Hopkins)...the abuser makes YOU feel like it's your fault. It is inexcusable for educated "professionals" to act that way... >:(...Never go back there, or to your original therapist.

It is however, normal to determine "where" a person is, and "where" they come from, in order to evaluate mental status, so asking a lot of background questions is normal. Dr's don't normally assume that just because you were referred for TG issues, that you are, in fact, TG...they will start from "square one" and look at the whole picture, for themselves.

Other than that, they all acted like a bunch of 14 year old bitches.

Btw, I can't tolerate standing to pee...I can, if needed, but won't do that if I have a choice.

...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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AbraCadabra

Sorry, I took of my post off as it seemed too little supportive not fitting the rest of the tenor of those other responses.
It is my history, and I sure do not wish it on anyone, but as the saying goes: "... ->-bleeped-<- happens..." and so we have to deal with it also.
I'll be glad to hear this will be only a smallish bump in the road for you - but... beware it might be only one of them... :)

Good luck now and thanks Dear,
Axélle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Beth Andrea

Quote from: AbraCadabra on October 15, 2012, 08:10:10 AM
Sorry, I took of my post off as it seemed too little supportive not fitting the rest of the tenor of those other responses.
It is my history, and I sure do not wish it on anyone, but as the saying goes: "... ->-bleeped-<- happens..." and so we have to deal with it also.
I'll be glad to hear this will be only a smallish bump in the road for you - but... beware it might be only one of them... :)

Good luck now and thanks,
Axélle

I wish I'd read your post...I think it'd be good to have therapist experiences written down, good and bad, not so much for naming the dr., but to give new TS people a heads-up on the kinds of nonsense they might encounter...and give them the courage to walk out of an abusive or bad therapy. (It is your choice, of course, to re-write it or keep it off.)
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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henrytwob

I am so sorry you had to endure that experience. You need a new therapist ASAP. Indeed, maybe we can make sure no one is treated like that again by this individual.

AS for the experience at Hopkins, I have not heard of their reputation, but am not surprised.

Please let me tell you that you probably were unprepared for their medical approach and that a lowly resident with no experience, and who could care even less would see you first and then "present you" to the attending. The sad, sad truth is that many of those from a medical background at still using a pathology model and are still in thrall to the psychodynamic (Freud) school of thought. Many in mental health have moved beyond pathologizing trans experience.

Article after article have been published regarding how little support members of the GLBT community tend to receive from the medical  mental health establishment (at least in the U.S. - it may be different elsewhere). The social work community, counseling community, and psychological community have been much more responsive to our needs.

What is truly a disservice to you was that even top names in this field - folks who I really don't like like Zunker in Canada, admit that once past puberty - transgendered identity will not change. Assuming you are over 18 this visit to Hopkins was both traumatic and wasted. You don't need to prove your identity to anyone. Even researchers who are against SRS admit that for adults!!

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eli77

Quote from: henrytwob on October 15, 2012, 09:19:01 AM
folks who I really don't like like Zunker in Canada, admit that once past puberty

Zucker is a monster. He performs reparative therapy on gender non-conforming children. The man should be in jail for torture and reckless disregard.
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AbraCadabra

Quote from: Beth Andrea on October 15, 2012, 08:13:06 AM
I wish I'd read your post...I think it'd be good to have therapist experiences written down, good and bad, not so much for naming the dr., but to give new TS people a heads-up on the kinds of nonsense they might encounter...and give them the courage to walk out of an abusive or bad therapy. (It is your choice, of course, to re-write it or keep it off.)

Thanks for that heads-up... but also it was an SA, not a USA experience. This with one only (and still only) gate-keeper and NO choice at all - unless one has the money to go e.g. to Thailand which I did in the end.
This sort of gate-keeping called THERAPY was anything but... it was high-handed and cruel, got me contemplating suicide.
They do not seem to mind, as crying is considered a failing, you not strong enough if you cry, and if you "check-out" they simply explain that is was inevitable and you be better off that way, dead.

It was a 9 months horror-trip. Just writing this still makes me feel so... not angry but totally unworthy and hopeless. It was one awful experience... and we ARE vulnerable in this early or even most of our transition period.

So, yes, it can be bad. I have NO idea if in such cases it would have some real rational purpose behind it, to be treated that way.
Axélle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Shantel

Quote from: Sarah7 on October 15, 2012, 11:25:18 AM
Zucker is a monster. He performs reparative therapy on gender non-conforming children. The man should be in jail for torture and reckless disregard.

As I recall some doorknob from Johns Hopkins arbitrarily performed a gender switch some years back on a little boy whose penis was accidentally sliced off by a laser knife during circumcision. The kid grew up as a girl knowing that he was a boy and wanting more than anything to be a boy. He committed suicide as a young adult. The parents were from Canada and had been convinced against their better judgment by Johns Hopkins that it was the right thing to do for the child. It was a heartbreaking story that led a lot of parents with kids born intersexed to wait until their child is old enough to make the choice for or against SRS themselves.
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Ms. OBrien CVT

Any therapist who needs you do take some test isn't really trained in Gender issues.  They are relying on someone other than the patient to determine treatment.

My therapist was a god-send.  Not only was he trained in gender issues, he is (was?) one of us.  He is FtM.

  
It does not take courage or bravery to change your gender.  It takes fear of living one more day in the wrong one.~me
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eli77

Quote from: Shantel on October 15, 2012, 11:45:47 AM
As I recall some doorknob from Johns Hopkins arbitrarily performed a gender switch some years back on a little boy whose penis was accidentally sliced off by a laser knife during circumcision. The kid grew up as a girl knowing that he was a boy and wanting more than anything to be a boy. He committed suicide as a young adult. The parents were from Canada and had been convinced against their better judgment by Johns Hopkins that it was the right thing to do for the child. It was a heartbreaking story that led a lot of parents with kids born intersexed to wait until their child is old enough to make the choice for or against SRS themselves.

Doctor John Money, he died in 2006. And the boy he essentially murdered was David Reimer.

In a lot of ways that disturbing case was pivotal here in pulling back from the idea that gender is entirely a social concept. It's been used as a lever both to stop mutilating intersex kids and to push for trans* rights. Horrible that it happened, but Reimer has saved a lot of people a lot of torment, posthumously.
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twit

 a therapist I tried back in the early nineties when I was still married wanted me to read Money's book, I stopped going to him after that. He just wanted to put me off as a crossdresser and nothing else. That and a few things that happened with other drs and shrinks when I was in the hospital for a bit due to some self mutilating kind of put me off any "professionals" for a good while.
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JoanneB

Sounds to me like this guy had a hard on about TG's with that attitude.
.          (Pile Driver)  
                    |
                    |
                    ^
(ROCK) ---> ME <--- (HARD PLACE)
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JessicaH

How much money did the visit to Johns Hopkins cost? If it didnt cost you a dime except 4 hours, I'd tell the therapist that due to such a negligent referal that you won't even consider using their services unless he/she credits you hour for hour of your wasted time.  I just dont have patience with "professionals" that I'm paying. They work for me and if they don't understand that, they can **** off!  Sorry, but this kind of thing really angers me.
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