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Manufacturing the "perfect" prosthetic penis

Started by Isabelle, October 15, 2012, 10:54:42 PM

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Isabelle

Hi all.
I was reading a thread the other day about someone making prothsetic penis's and failing to deliver after receiving payment. I made a few posts and showed a very basic one I had made a few years back for a low budget film. The responses prompted me to look at other products currently available. One in particular stood out as being very high quality however at a price of 900USD it's hardly within the reach of a lot of the people that (in my opinion) need the device. I've decided to look into producing something similar, with all the features a realistic prosthetic requires for it to "pass" as real. My goal is to produce a highly realistic prosthetic that is fully functional.
I consider the primary purpose of an appliance like this to be its ability to lower its wearers feeling of dysphoria. Secondary is physical function, the ability to urinate standing, to be able to penetrate, to be sanitary, durable and within the reach of those who need it.

Before I go on, I'll tell you all alittle about my background, I have a design degree, a post grad in applied science. I've been production designer on international tv shows, and worked on several major films as a manufacturing model maker and industrial designer. Props ive made include suits of armour, hands for robots, swords, guns, knives, bombs, basically anything a production needs. I contract to one of the leading effects houses in the world and have accsess to all of the materials hardware and knowledge required to produce a prosthetic penis I am also trans, and I want to produce something that's available to the people who need it.... Enough about me..
I'm m2f, so my knowledge of exactly what you guys need is limited, I've started this thread as a wish list, I'd like to know what you guys would like in the perfect prosthetic penis, nothing is off limits, let your imaginations run wild, what would your dream features be on such a device? Realism? Hair? Sensation? Anatomically correct foreskin?  Let me know in this thread. I see this project as a facinating industrial design challenge and am really hoping I can get this off the ground.
Thanks for your time
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justcause

Thanks Isabelle, I am super stoked at the possibility of this!   :o :D


I guess this is a brain storming session so I will just run with what hits my mind.

The "perfect" prosthetic penis.....

* 3d Scrotum
* Free floating testicles
* STP
* Realistic painting
* Realistic 'feel'
* Nice punched hair
* Sized to be comfortable in pants
* Affordable

I am an intersex guy who finds myself having many of the same emotional struggles I see outlined on this board.  It is not a huge downer for me but it would really be great to be able to see my body as it "should be" for once.  This would be done by something that first and foremost appears real, and also feels real; though I understand there are limitations.  A core part of it 'feeling real,' which most of the prostheses out there lack , is a 3d scrotum and free floating testicles. I feel like this is something standard that should be implemented into prostheses but it is not.

Another thing that comes to mind is (and i hate to pull other companies into this discussion.. but for discussions sake..) is ReelMagik and how the skin on his even seems free-moving. You can notice it in the video when he pulls on the skin to show this off.  I have no idea how this is done but something like that would really top it all off. I have not seen that on any other prosthetic.

An uncut version would be cool, I saw some people wanting skin that could be pulled back but I am unsure of the technology is there yet/sanitation? An idea would be a version where the skin is slightly pulled back, like half way down the head.


The hair on the 'tab' I would think it should go around the sides of the tab too, if possible.  RM puts it on the front of the tab and when you look down or from a side view you just see bare tab... 

And lastly, the STP hole on exit should not be huge.. I feel like there are ways to make that not so prominent that people have not explored yet.


Thanks for listening..

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LordKAT

not easily torn

many tear easy or get sticky


BTW, count me in as one of the 20. I may have to move to do it but thats ok.
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Isabelle

#3
The tearing issue is always present when working with silicone. A trade off is always made between tear strength and density. The denser you go the tougher the product, however going too dense limits movement. The free moving skin you mention isn't really that difficult. It comes down to product selection. I have most of that stuff worked out already (ecoflex 0030 if anyone's wondering) I completely agree on the free floating testicles, I have actually seen that done on an item in the past, it is totally possible to do. Tackiness is also a common problem, silicone rubbers are actually an oil and they often secrete the conditioners added to them. It is completely safe and inert though. Cool discussion so far chaps :) keep it going :)

@LordKat, why would you have to move?
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MaxAloysius

Alright, I'll be a tentative third person in that 20. :P

For me, in order from most important to least:
Real look.
Real feel.
Not sticky.
Ability to penetrate (to be specific, anal), without looking like a constant boner in pants.
Free-floating testicles.
Definitely love that movable skin.
STP without the use of a funnel or medicine spoon.
A very thin edge to the tab (such as can be seen on halloween facial prosthetics) that would help blend the prosthetic into the skin.
Some way of feeling it if used for intercourse.
And the option for a foreskin would be nice. :)

I don't want hair on mine, so I don't really care either way about that. :P Oh, and I guess weight will be a big problem! I assume the lighter the prosthetic ends up being, the better chance it has of staying on longer with the right adhesive. For me a big bonus would be the ability to wear it for a few days (or even longer!) without needing to re-apply. Also I'd say my ideal size would probably be about 5.5", or maybe 6.

You're super amazing Isabelle, thanks for taking the time to even consider this! :) I'm sure if you manage to get this going, the 20 people you need will just pour in! :{D
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Isabelle

Ok... Speaking generally here, when we provide a prosthetic with a blending edge, to be used with an adhesive it's generally only worn for a few hours. Under studio lights they get sweated off and also, the finer the blend edge, the faster it will tear. Once silicone starts to tear, it's f**cked (for lack of a better word) The tear is irreparable. The edge needs to be fused with a fabric. It would be great to be able to make something that could be worn seamlessly for that long but, human physiology just won't allow it. Sweat and urine are essentially the same thing.. Having it on your skin for that long will cause serious irritation, like nappy rash on a baby. It would also require constant shaving of the public region. Honestly, the best adhesive for that is prosaid and you absolutely don't want that in your hair.
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Isabelle

Also, I'd love it if you guys could enlighten me a little about the nature of current stp mechanics? Are there "off the shelf" cup type things? How is fluid flow managed? I'm assuming this is related to the post made earlier about the size of the hole in the head? For obvious reasons (without pressure) the hole needs to be large enough to allow fluid to flow without the interface point acting as a reservoir and overflowing?
This is totally blue sky thinking here but, one would assume if there were some way of joining the prosthetic to the urethral opening, one could make use of the pressure from the wearers bladder muscles. The real design problem here lies in forming a perfect seal between the urethral opening and the tube the transfers the fluid through the prosthesis.... I don't actually have a vagina yet so I'm wondering, can I ask you guys (and I don't mean to use incorrect or triggering terminology, please educate me if my terminology is offensive or insensitive) Would some type of small suction cup be tolerable on that area of anatomy? For the suction to work, the "eye" of the head would have to function as a one way valve. Meaning suction would keep it closed when not passing fluid (like a biological one)
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LordKAT

Personally, medicine spoon works great but could be softer like rubber instead of plastic.
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Isabelle

LordKat, it would be great if you could link pictures of the devices you're mentioning. It helps me "get it" I can see an item and go "oh, I see how that was produced" whereas a verbal description is harder for me to visualize a manufacture process
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MaxAloysius

I am so down for the suction cup idea! Mainly just because I'm uncomfortable using a medicin spoon or funnel; I have a constant fear of leaking that stops me from STP outside of my house. :( I even once looked into catheters and such I was so desperate, but that proved to be ouchy-inducing research... That said, I believe I'm more likely to be the exception for this one; as I understand it most guys are uncomfortable having to navigate that area of the body.

Also thanks for clearing up the edge thing Isabelle, that makes perfect sense! A real pity though... :(

Do you have any idea as of yet how to make it both an STP and contain a flex rod?
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Isabelle

Absolutely, I've found a manufacturer of surgical steel posable pipe that would make a great core for the appliance but, I'm reluctant to go with steel as it doesn't hold heat well. Titanium would be better as it transfers heat nicely. I don't see any point in shooting for perfection if it has an ice cold shaft down the middle lol :) all the positives would be undone in an instant.
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harlee






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justcause

The whole 'not sticky' thing a couple people mentioned... Just put corn starch on it.

I second the "non medicine spoon" thing.. I think most have issues with it, it's tiny.

@ Isabelle, yep; the large hole in the head is to prevent backflow.  However, I think some are bigger than they actually need to be.

I'm not sure about the urethra question...  my anatomy is too ambiguous.  My question is with the 'suction' apparatus. That would have to be pressed onto the urethra? Wouldn't that mean that an individual with a vagina (sorry you guys :() would need to spread open the labia to make direct contact with the urethra?  (as opposed to a  cup-like structure to pee into that then drained out of the prosthesis). 

With an STP, there's also a dilemma of the fact a biological penis is up higher than the prosthesis would need to be to let the urine flow out in a downward way.  I think this is no 'true' issue though, simply wear the prosthesis a bit lower --  It would still work just like the 'female urination devices' work. 

I wonder if there is someone on this board near by who could meet up with you for testing sake? I mean, for stp trial and error.

Here are some you can look at:
*http://www.whizproducts.co.uk/en/
*http://www.go-girl.com/
*http://www.freshette.com/
*http://www.shewee.ca/
*http://www.thepstyle.com/


Whatever the stp is, I think it should be a literal part of the prosthetic - no extra pieces.

good discussion so far...
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AdamMLP

I'm not really in the market for one of these, give me a couple of years and I would be, but I think things like this are very important for advancing what's available for people.  The companies that are out there are charging a fortune for less than perfect products and getting away with it because they're the best we've got.  If they see this and realise that there are people out there who are making better prosthetics off their own back without a company behind them they might step their game up a bit and better options will be available to the masses.  So although I'm not going to be buying one now I'd quite like to contribute because this might end up changing what's available for all of us in the future.

In an ideal world I think I'd like to do away with harnesses and glue and have a magnetic system like what Maxillofacial Surgery sometimes uses, but obviously this isn't something that's going to be possible until we can get real medical prosthesis makers and surgeons on our side and realising the importance of this to us, which may never happen seeing as in some places getting them to understand that some people are satisfied with metoidioplasty and won't want phalloplasty one day.  With that mentality it's hard to consider getting them to believe that I'd rather have a very life like and functional prosthetic than something which is less realistic but made of my own skin.  Anyway that's kind of a digression, but the thought of it's interested me since I saw an episode of 'Making Faces', a documentary about facial prosthesis.  A guy can dream I suppose.

More realistically my ideal prosthetic would have:
-Realistic, retractable foreskin.
-Free moving skin.
-Good colour and detail.
-Realistic feel, and heat, both to the touch and when squeezed.
-Free moving testicals in 3D scrotum.
-Ability to get erect - is an erection rod style thing the only way that can do this or are there better alternatives?  Could something like the pump inserts that are put into phalloplasties be used?  I'm just sort of wondering aloud here after getting it drummed into me for the last few weeks at college that what's already used isn't always the best way.
-STP that's comfortable to keep in your pants the whole time.
-Something that's big enough for sex but isn't enormous.  I would just want to forget about it like the rest of my body until I came to use it, not worry about whether it looked too big.
-Pubic hair only if it's necessary to hide the tab.  I think it's a matter of preference though, but hand punched hair is added after the initial mould right?  So the people who do order can pick and choose whether or not they want the hair.

As for what you mentioned about the tab having to be fairly thick before it would rip, on the 'Making Faces' documentary I saw the prosthetic nose he had had a thin edge around the outside, I don't know what it's made of and unfortunately I don't think links to the program will work outside of the UK.  I've taken a few screenshots off the program to see if you can identify what they're made of/whether it would be something that could be replicated for a penis.
http://i48.tinypic.com/2q3n90x.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/2dim4om.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/wmexf.jpg

Because these prosthetics were designed to be worn everyday for a long period of time it makes me wonder if there's another material or technique they use to stop them ripping.  Would it work to have the main body of the tab thicker and just the extremities of it being thinner maybe?  I don't really know anything about silicone or it's properties, just bouncing ideas around because on the nose I showed photos of it was held mostly on by magnets, but the thinner edges were glued down.  Maybe it would still tear in time, I really don't know, just wondering how they did it and whether it could be incorporated.  If it's completely not feasible then just ignore all of this.

And I just wanted to add that even though I'm not in the market for one of these right now -- there are plenty of other things that I need to sort out before this -- I think it's great what you're doing and if there's any way that we can be of help in sorting out how things are going to work with our anatomy I'm more than willing to try and explain.  As I said before, I think things like this are pretty important to improving options for all of us.
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Nygeel

My priorities are probably different from most people.

I value function slightly over appearance. Should be able to use easily as an STP and for penetration. One suggestion I have is that if it uses a removable erection rod, that it should have a little nub at the end. If the prosthetic sits over the dick we have then having a nub type thing would provide some sort of sensation. It would be important that it's durable and made of medical grade silicone (making it easy to clean, and it's non porous).

Would be nice to have the option of a base to attach to the body or one for a harness (I wouldn't really want one that is glued). Also, something with a retractable foreskin. I hardly ever see anything that has foreskin.
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emil

I'd be happy to buy one of those 20 as well.

There's a (very pricy) prosthetic made in Germany where the receptor part of the STP is actually in the testicles ...which might help with the problem of placement of the prosthetic someone mentioned above.

Personally, I would prefer a circumcised model (the foreskin just sounds like one more part which might tear easily, and it sounds impractical for sex).
My biggest wish, though, would be for the tab not to show. This would be my biggest priority.
Apart from that, it would be great if there were a more "subtle" way of creating an erection, but bending the flex rod upwards is ok as well.
If the testicles/lower tab covered the labia & vagina so it looks like a male anatomy from all angles, wow i would love that.
I'm thinking 5-5,5'' would be a good length for a pack'n'play prosthetic (either 5'' with more girth or 5,5" with less girth, so it doesn't look like i'm hung like a horse)
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justcause

Quote from: emil on October 16, 2012, 03:41:34 PM
I'd be happy to buy one of those 20 as well.

There's a (very pricy) prosthetic made in Germany where the receptor part of the STP is actually in the testicles ...which might help with the problem of placement of the prosthetic someone mentioned above.
That penis would still have to be placed lower than a bio penis (again, this is NOT a big deal and would not be an elephant in a room) to be able to flow out from between the legs. A bio penis is up higher on the mons pubis.  The flow from an STP being used with a bio female anatomy has to be tilted in a downward position to let the steam out since the flow cant travel upwards.  It's hard to explain in text, sorry if this is unclear.
Quote
If the testicles/lower tab covered the labia & vagina so it looks like a male anatomy from all angles, wow i would love that.
Sanitation?

Quote
I'm thinking 5-5,5'' would be a good length for a pack'n'play prosthetic (either 5'' with more girth or 5,5" with less girth, so it doesn't look like i'm hung like a horse)

IMO 5'5 is too big for a limp dick.  But this is coming from someone who isn't intending to 'play'.
I just want the realism and a device to easily urinate from.
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dylanjakoby

for me honestly, not looking like i have a boner all the time is my biggest issue. than being able to have sex with it is my second. but i also like the idea of the option of foreskin, I'm jewish so i would never have that but i have friends who wish packers came with it. i like the idea of free moving balls. i do not like th medicine spoon its too small. making it less sticky without having to use corn starch its not a big deal just an unnecessary task.
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Isabelle

Personally, I'm morally opposed to genital mutilaton on babies for no reason. I consider religion to be not a good enough reason to mutilate babies. Just me. But, I imagine the majority of those interested would be Americans and they seem to prefer their genitals mutilated. Ill make what the majority want.
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RagingShadow

realistic apearence and feal
3d and free floating testicles
movable skin
stp that is simpler/more fool proof than a medicine spoon
long term attachment w/o harness
erection w/o rod. kinda similar to the Tyron 2 or 3, with the testicle pumping method
ability to get erect and whether or not it has a for skin isn't as important to me, it'd be cool, but no required.
if the stp doesnt function well, i just might as well stay with Reel Magik

thanks for taking the time to try this!
--Kayden



Youtube:TeenFTM (formerly KaydenTransGuy)
my Gender Therapist was Dr. Laura Caghan in Los Alamitos, CA. She is AMAZING.
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