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what would happen to "us" if

Started by oZma, November 02, 2012, 01:09:04 AM

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oZma

the economy collapses, the dollar plummets,  and estrogen becomes hard to come by.  like say all of us trans girls can't afford hormones... i get worried about an impending economic collapse, a new great depression and well yeah that's about it.

has anyone else thought about this? fiat currency, imaginary money... and no access to hormones.  we all (who haven't had an orchi or srs) turn back into masculine creatures.

am i just being paranoid?  not trusting our government and its spending?

or maybe our economy collapses but we have this obamacare to take care of us?

i'm not trying to get into a political conversation about left vs. right because i'm libertarian and want no arguments about romney vs obama.  i just get scared that maybe at some point i don't have access to hormones anymore.  what would happen?  shucks, i sound paranoid...
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Adam (birkin)

I'm FTM and I've thought about the types of scenarios that could lead to me not being able to get hormones...particularly after surgery it wouldn't be very good because I wouldn't make my own, either. Actually, recently Canada had a shortage of the injectable testosterone so there were a number of guys who went without.

I guess, worst case scenario, trans people wouldn't have access to hormones and we'd simply be at a higher risk for things like osteoporosis. It sucks, majorly, and so would the psychological effects of being hormoneless. It'd be a lot like being a woman who had a hysterectomy or had menopause (prior to that being treated with HRT), I guess, or a man who lost his testicles.
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justmeinoz

"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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Jamie D

Quote from: oZma on November 02, 2012, 01:09:04 AM
the economy collapses, the dollar plummets,  and estrogen becomes hard to come by.  like say all of us trans girls can't afford hormones... i get worried about an impending economic collapse, a new great depression and well yeah that's about it.

has anyone else thought about this? fiat currency, imaginary money... and no access to hormones.  we all (who haven't had an orchi or srs) turn back into masculine creatures.

am i just being paranoid?  not trusting our government and its spending?

or maybe our economy collapses but we have this obamacare to take care of us?

i'm not trying to get into a political conversation about left vs. right because i'm libertarian and want no arguments about romney vs obama.  i just get scared that maybe at some point i don't have access to hormones anymore.  what would happen?  shucks, i sound paranoid...

No self-respecting libertarian would depend on the government to take care of them.

If you had no access to HRT medications, you would do what your sisters did in the days before hormone therapy - you would live in the appropriate gender role to alleviate your dysphoria, and likely have your testicles removed.
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DanicaCarin

I have similar fears oZma, and not just about being able to afford/have access to hormones & anti boy drugs. If the economy gets worse or a bad depression hits everything will be expensive/scarce. Food, fuel, you name it. I have been buying extra estrogen, Spiro & Fin on-line and sort of stocking up. Its hard to have a really large supply and keep within the expiration dates. Although I suspect I would be better off with some estrogen patches that are 6 months out of date than none at all.  ???

The only other option is to stash away as much money as you can for a "rainy day" fund. I know its hard with all of life's regular expenses and our Trans related expenses on top of that, but as of late I try and save where ever I can.

Dani
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Aleah

The concerns of impending global fiat currency collapse are real for everyone, not just trans people.

Buy precious metals (physical, not derivative products or credit notes) like gold and silver as a hedge. Reduce your liabilities and stay out of debt. Study and practice good money management techniques, like budgeting so you can always live below your means so you have some disposable income.

I know not all of these are possible for everyone, but the final option is immigration, migrate to a country that is more stable (most of these were barely affected by the GFC) and has better living wage, like Norway, Switzerland and Iceland (which has the best gender equality statistics in the world by the way) if in Europe. Or Australia and New Zaeland, which are both far more decoupled from the upcoming US and EU dollar crises, they also have substantially better average living wages, good gender equality and institutionalized anti-discrimination laws for transgender people. Not to mention universal public health care system.

There are other countries too, check out Human Development Index, Gini and Gender Equality reports to see regarding quality of life. And try to pick a country that has at least 15% of GDP from natural resources in it's own economy. Also if you really want to get into it, check for banking regulations such as anti-merger laws and public investment oversight.
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Nicolette

If the NHS was somehow dispensed with and I seriously couldn't afford estrogen I reckon obtaining estrogen would be the last of my worries. Keeping alive would be my first.

If you're that worried, start studying now how to obtain it from animals.  :laugh: There would have to be an impending apocalypse before I started taking it that seriously.

What's the real shelf life of tablet form estrogen?
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Snowpaw

Agreed Tesla. There would be civil unrest in a time like that. Besides that, gold and silver may not be worth as much as people think. What purpose would shiny metal serve in a SHTF scenario? One item in a SHTF scenario of worth would be guns/food etc. Of course this is a seriously worst case situation I am speaking of.
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Nicolette

Absolutely. Obtaining antibiotics would be the first on my list. A simple cut could kill you without them, even a UTI.
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Maddie

Quote from: Jamie D on November 02, 2012, 01:51:30 AM
No self-respecting libertarian would depend on the government to take care of them.

True.

Imagine the system collapses. It's like "The Road" or "Mad Max". That's the kind of scenario we need to be prepared for if we're serious about self-sufficiency.

What we need are skills. As far as hormones are concerned, we could get involved in DIY biology. For instance, oestrogens are typically synthesised in a placenta. As stem cell research advances, one should eventually be able to grow one in a home lab, and extract one's estradiol and whatnot from that. Alternatively, one might have a look at the chemical structure, and work out how one could build it from scratch. If one doesn't feel up to it, one could trade services with somebody who is, the wetware hackers aren't going to magically disappear from one day to the next.

Dependency upon the pharmaceutical industry strikes me as just as unsustainable as dependency upon the state / global finance.
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Medusa

Even when everything will collapse
There will be lot of people with knowledge who will fill free space at market, so small home laboratories which will make everything not just illegal drugs and untaxed alcohol like today and garage surgeons who can do at least orchi
So maybe world will be more gray than today, but life goes on
IMVU: MedusaTheStrange
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Tristan

Quote from: TessaM on November 02, 2012, 05:54:59 AM
I always wondered what I would do in a zombie appocalypse. Id probably have to break into a local pharmacy and stock up on hrt. It could make for a cool movie.
Yo, don't joke about zombies. That s*** there – that's real.
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Carlita

Quote from: oZma on November 02, 2012, 01:09:04 AM
the economy collapses, the dollar plummets,  and estrogen becomes hard to come by.  like say all of us trans girls can't afford hormones... i get worried about an impending economic collapse, a new great depression and well yeah that's about it.

has anyone else thought about this? fiat currency, imaginary money... and no access to hormones.  we all (who haven't had an orchi or srs) turn back into masculine creatures.

am i just being paranoid?  not trusting our government and its spending?

or maybe our economy collapses but we have this obamacare to take care of us?

i'm not trying to get into a political conversation about left vs. right because i'm libertarian and want no arguments about romney vs obama.  i just get scared that maybe at some point i don't have access to hormones anymore.  what would happen?  shucks, i sound paranoid...

Chill ...

In the first place, the entire financial system is not about to collapse. Despite the best efforts of politicians (of both sides) and bankers to f*** it up the US economy is about to boom as cheap shale gas and oil lower energy prices, remove any dependence on Middle Eastern oil (so no more dumb-ass wars in muslim countries) and give the States a massive competitive advantage over both China and Europe. So don't worry, hon, there'll be plenty of money for hormones.

And if by some evil fluke the whole of society as we know it did collapse, frankly, getting HRT would be the very least of your problems, so I really wouldn't worry about it.

You're young, you're cute, you're going to be much finer than you know ...
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Jamie D

Quote from: Tesla on November 02, 2012, 05:14:31 AM
If the NHS was somehow dispensed with and I seriously couldn't afford estrogen I reckon obtaining estrogen would be the last of my worries. Keeping alive would be my first.

If you're that worried, start studying now how to obtain it from animals.  :laugh: There would have to be an impending apocalypse before I started taking it that seriously.

What's the real shelf life of tablet form estrogen?

The shelf life of medication in tablet form is years.  Gelcaps and liquids, not as much.
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JessicaH

When I work in Africa, it is usually 12-18 hours per day 7 days a week and my dysphoria is usually easier to deal with. So it makes me wonder if GID has been historically easier to deal with for humans because most of human history, life has been so hard and basic survival itself was quite a challenge.  So, I wonder if the GID would become a much smaller concern for us if everything went to crap and we struggled for clean water, food and other basic needs.

As  funny side note, I'm in Mozambique right now and the house across the street is blaring some sort of Reggae Fusion music on some REALLY cheap speakers. These people are poorer than most in a first world country can imagine but they don't know how poor and miserable they are. They smile and go on living, just like anyone else in the world. The worst thing you could ever do to them is   to show them how poor they are and how first world nations live.
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suzifrommd

I'm actually far more worried about a shift in attitudes toward Transgender than I am a financial collapse.

If people start listening to those who are saying that Transgender is immoral, is a choice for our own gratification, etc., and make us outlaws.

In my state we're debating whether gay marriage should be legal. If it passes, it will be by the thinnest of margins. A significant percentage of people seem to believe that legalizing gay marriage goes against God's law and allowing it would be immoral.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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tekla

fiat currency, imaginary money

That's cute that you think that is something that might happen, instead of it being the reality all along.

Currency, money as we who love and hate it call it, is a fiction.  It's worth nothing.  It's just paper (or metal, and base metals at that).  It's not backed by anything (and even when it was, that was a joke - don't believe me?  Try eating gold and silver.)

The only thing that holds everything together, what has always held it together, is that we all agree to be part of this huge fiction.  Our combined belief is the only thing that supports it.  It's the only thing that ever has.  It's a form of faith, but pretty much without god. 

Look, all of this is way out of control, and no one -not Republicans or Democrats, not Commies or Anarchists, not American's or Europeans, or artists, or economists, or social studies majors - NO ONE, has even the faintest idea of how to get it under control.  It's a Frankenstein Monster, we created it, and now it looks like it could eat us.  Because there is a very real danger inherent in an total financial collapse, and that's a related industrial collapse.  The money ain't no thing, but take away 3 things, petro products (gas, lubes, miracle drugs and farming related chemicals), transportation for food, and the ability to purify water in quantities that are needed - that's the end of the world as you know it.  The upside (I guess) is that about 80% of you are dead inside of the first year, so you won't have to be depressed for very long.

See, (and this has been true for a lot longer than people even think) THERE IS NO MONEY.  Nothing is real.  Nothing physical.  It's just ink on a page, and bits and bites in computers, and entries in logs.  It's not real.  There is no there there.  The daily amounts of money being transacted on a global scale are astronomical, in real time no one knows how much they are, we only find out in retrospect.  So no one is working for anything of tangible value.  Nothing is real.  It was ink, then magnetic ink, now just ones and zeros, swiriling around the wires and cells of the world, being posted here, there and everywhere.  But its not real.  None of it is.

It works, and will continue to work - like Peter Pan flys - by everyone believing.  That's it, that's all.


And try to pick a country that has at least 15% of GDP from natural resources in it's own economy both the military power as well as the will to go and take what it needs, regardless of the morality of doing that.  That's the basic rule of history.  It's always been true.  No reason to think it will ever change.

Norway, Switzerland and Iceland - ah no, because what you cite is just a bunch of laws/social junk/vague statistics.  All that stuff can change overnight.  And given an apocalypse it will.  What you want is a place that grows enough food to feed itself.  PERIOD.  And since not freezing to death in a real winter has been (and would be again) a real luxury item, very, very expensive, move someplace tropical, or at least someplace with (and it's the reason that such palaces were the 'cradle of civilization' and all that, and Norway was not) a Mediterranean Climate and plenty of fresh water.  If the water is running (as in rivers) that's a bonus, because that makes power.

Buy precious metals (physical, not derivative products or credit notes) like gold and silver as a hedge.
>>Now I don't know but I been told
it's hard to run with the weight of gold
Other hand I heard it said
it's just as hard with the weight of lead

Perhaps as a currency hedge, maybe, given a total collapse, then you have to ask of what value are they anyway?  Aren't gold and silver like Roman/Middle Ages stuff?  Are they really the most precious metals on earth now.  (I'm guessing NO, platinum has more industrial uses)  Are people really going to trade food and water for some hunk of metal?  Could well be that the most valuable metal is lead, and the preferred method of storing it is in the highly popular 9mm form.  Far more likely to trade not shooting people for food, then gold.  Historically that's always been true also.

Move to Canada?
Sure, because if the Euro and the dollar go into free-fall it's going to be all about the loonies.   Canada's money is in the huge, general, vague, bits and bites like all other industrial nations, as they go, so goes Canada. 

If there was a general economic collapse as you are all speculating about - a true Industrial Collapse - then pretty much your gender worries will shrink to almost nothing, as basic survival is a 24/7 thing with no margin for error.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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DanicaCarin

Not sure what the level of collaps oZma was referring too, but a extended recession/depression can cause inflation/hyper inflation that would cause many/most items to rise in cost. Drugs could easily double or triple, which would be at the minimum "problematic" for most of "us". Think of a generic Estradiol patch going from $3.25/$3.75 up to $10 per patch? That will hurt real fast!

As far as "The Book of Eli" type situation, then I guess all you need is "Divine Protection"! But most religions say I'm going to hell cause of my Trans issues! >:-) So I guess I will just have some fun before I leave! ;)

Best,

Dani
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Beth Andrea

imho, it's best to not fantasize about the horrors of a zombie apocalyps (the range of possibilities make it a moving target (no pun intended) to prepare for)...it's ok to be prepared "in general" for "a given range of scenarios" (i.e., the most obvious needs during the most obvious crisis) but specifically HRT...some pharmacies might allow a 3-month stock, and one could stash away say, 10% of any given prescription with seriously affecting dosages...

But the reality is if the ZA happened, no one would know in advance how--or if--any supplies would be available, and for how long. Best to have a set up for a month or maybe 3, and during that time assess what is available.
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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Rita

I would probably get an orchi, then do my best to get some form of estrogen.

I doubt anything will ever get that bad though.

In a zombie apocalypse,  I think I would welcome some elevated T levels.     And hormones/transitioning would be as far disconnected from my mind as could be.
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