Susan's Place Logo

News:

Please be sure to review The Site terms of service, and rules to live by

Main Menu

Fundamentalist theological question

Started by Incarnadine, November 06, 2012, 04:22:07 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Incarnadine

Per comments in other threads, it seems there are several of us who have come out of or realized our incongruous nature while still a part of strongly conservative churches, such as IFB or at least strict evangelical churches.  I have two questions for us/ya'll...

1.  For those who have in the past hailed from such a church, if the pastor himself found out he was transgender (which makes "him" a "her", obviously - and so I'll change pronouns now), would you think she should communicate this to the deacons/trustees/leadership/church as a whole?  Is it disingenuous for her to remain silent about this medical condition?

2.  If she could somehow hide her dual nature by transitioning only partially, and only in the home, and/or only with low-dose HRT (hopefully minimized breast growth, but enough there to satisfy her), keeping it hidden as much as possible, would that change your answer?

Aspects of this dilemma would include the qualifications for the pastorate being a man married only once with neither divorce nor remarriage in his past.  Would being transgender nullify the male requirement?  Do you think the requirement in I Timothy 3 applies to the mental or to the physical state of the individual, or would both the physical and mental need to be in sync?

I'm not looking to start a discussion on the sexism of said requirement, nor to call into question the validity of Paul's writings.  I'm looking for feedback on the honesty aspect of the pastor's mental and physical fulfillment of I Timothy 3.  I'm not looking to disqualify people from answering, just asking that comments focus on the honesty aspect.  :)
  •  

justmeinoz

I think the answer to #1 would depend on the individual Church's stance.
#2 though would involve lying, so that would neccessitate confronting question 1. 
Interesting question.
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
  •  

Vicky

Per Timothy 3, such a person has to go on several grounds IF THEIR DENOMINATION wants to use that scripture.

Quote8Deacons likewise must be serious, not double-tongued, not indulging in much wine, not greedy for money; 9they must hold fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience

The person is double tongued and their conscience is far from clear.  It does indeed mean they may be better off leaving the ministry of that denomination where they cannot come out and seeing if another church will have them.  The Episcopal Church GLBT advocacy group Integrity has a video entitled "Out Of The Box" which includes the story of one clergy woman faced with that situation and what has happened to her. 

---youtube.com/watch?v=QzCANWGsEdc&feature=youtu.be----

is the address for it.  It is too long to embed here
I refuse to have a war of wits with a half armed opponent!!

Wiser now about Post Op reality!!
  •  

SarahM777

Quote from: Incarnadine on November 06, 2012, 04:22:07 PM
Per comments in other threads, it seems there are several of us who have come out of or realized our incongruous nature while still a part of strongly conservative churches, such as IFB or at least strict evangelical churches.  I have two questions for us/ya'll...

1.  For those who have in the past hailed from such a church, if the pastor himself found out he was transgender (which makes "him" a "her", obviously - and so I'll change pronouns now), would you think she should communicate this to the deacons/trustees/leadership/church as a whole?  Is it disingenuous for her to remain silent about this medical condition?


First things first. I would suggest she pray about it. She needs to know the truth of where she is. By that I mean she needs to be sure before God that she is dealing with the truth,that this is the problem and it's not something else. Once she is sure of that them the next steps will be clearer.

One of the toughest things that will make it harder for her to be effective in her role as pastor is gossip within the church about her. She needs to know whom she can trust and how far she can trust them. The reality is if she comes straight out to the church as a whole right away they may ask her to step down for a time or even permanently.

Now on the other hand she could take some time to bring them in on a bit slower path. She could out it before the church,that she does have a medical problem and she is seeking the Lord's wisdom and guidance on how to proceed. As time goes on then she could open up a bit more as the Lord leads.
It's not specific but it does let them know that there is a problem. But in both she should be seeking His leading.


Quote from: Incarnadine on November 06, 2012, 04:22:07 PM

2.  If she could somehow hide her dual nature by transitioning only partially, and only in the home, and/or only with low-dose HRT (hopefully minimized breast growth, but enough there to satisfy her), keeping it hidden as much as possible, would that change your answer?


This goes into a very similar place that I am at. I am still dealing with both the female heart,spirit and mind, and the male body. I have been given certain limits concerning clothing and appearance. (Please these are my limits only not someone else's) All of my clothes are feminine but they would be considered more androgynous. Nail polish is either light pink pearlized or clear,small earrings and light lip gloss. The reason being is that I am not to let the freedoms that God has given me to be a stumbling block to someone else. I am not to flaunt it so to speak. So no it would not change my answer.

Quote from: Incarnadine on November 06, 2012, 04:22:07 PM

Aspects of this dilemma would include the qualifications for the pastorate being a man married only once with neither divorce nor remarriage in his past.  Would being transgender nullify the male requirement?  Do you think the requirement in I Timothy 3 applies to the mental or to the physical state of the individual, or would both the physical and mental need to be in sync?

I'm not looking to start a discussion on the sexism of said requirement, nor to call into question the validity of Paul's writings.  I'm looking for feedback on the honesty aspect of the pastor's mental and physical fulfillment of I Timothy 3.  I'm not looking to disqualify people from answering, just asking that comments focus on the honesty aspect.  :)

Tough question. She would have to take it back to the Lord. Neither Jesus nor Paul dealt with this problem directly. It would take balance and a very narrow walk. The big question would be on how she is living it out and her conscience before the Lord.
Answers are easy. It's asking the right questions which is hard.

Be positive in the fact that there is always one person in a worse situation then you.

The Fourth Doctor
  •  

tekla

Such churches are less then 100 years old, mostly beginning in the 19teens as a reaction against modernity, so it's possible that they have never really had to deal with the problem in other than isolated cases, and hence do not have a formal teaching/position/theology on it.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •