Gender-based stereotypes

[Kevin Peña]

I've noticed a lot of discussions of stereotypes getting out of hand.

Thus, ss the title implies, this is a thread to talk about those dreaded gender-based stereotypes.

You can bring up anything you want or stop to discuss something someone else brought up. Talk about how you disagree with a stereotype, see it as a decent general rule, or see it as just plain rubbish. Dealer's choice. 

Anywho, I'll start in the spirit of ice-breaking//fairness.

I don't like how people sometimes think that girls are all frail and afraid. I can use throwing knives, bows and arrows, my giant aluminum Captain America shield, and swords and plan on keeping them, even after transition. After I'm done playing with my "toys," I'll play with my giant teddy bear, Mr. Snuggles, and have a tea party with him and Cuddlekins, my stuffed rhino.

[Snowpaw]

How girls are supposed to be all into musicals and poppy happy music, and stuff. I like some of them but dangit don't tell me listening to six feet under is not lady like >_<

[Kevin Peña]

Hm, I thought that was the stereotype for gay guys. 

I agree, though, I like West Side Story and whatnot, but I also like my share of rock.

"Manly" bands I'd recommend:
-Bon Jovi
-Led Zeppelin
-Aerosmith
-Orange
-The Ramones
-Nickelback
-Everclear

"Girly" artists I'd recommend:
-Christina Aguilera
-Cascada
-Shakira
-Irene Cara
-Victoria Justice (Give her a chance)

[big kim]

I dropped my interest in birds/wildlife as a guy in case anyone thought it was girly!I bird watch and look at wildlife now.I still check out classic cars mainly Detroit iron or the British cars that looked like them and classic bikes especially Triumphs and Harley Sportsters.I listen to a lot more female fronted groups than I used to, Nightwish,Within Temptation,Halestorm,Bif Naked and Doro are favourites.

[Padma]

It makes me laugh that I'm wearing pretty much the same outfit I was wearing in my teens - converse, bootcut jeans, shirts and waistcoats, brightly coloured hoodies - back then people told me I looked effeminate - now they tell me I look butch .

Oh, and it drives me nuts how many women seem to apologise to each other all the time, and do that little giggle that says "we're harmless, right?" - woman up!

[Padma]

I was on a train platform this afternoon, and a group of young men were "sizing up" the women on the platform, making loud comments about which ones they'd like to do what to. I was watching them closely, wondering whether they're each like that on their own. It all seemed a bit desperate to me, how they all seemed to be competing to be alpha dog.

(I was kind of doing the same thing, but just not out loud ).

[Kevin Peña]

Every time I go to the fabric store it is full of girls! like what? Seriously??

Oh my gosh, you write how a stereotypical teenage girl talks. 
Honestly, every girl in my English class can't talk properly. We were presenting the pantheons of various cultures, and the girls kept sprinkling the word "like" where it doesn't belong. It was so annoying to listen to their presentations.

I was on a train platform this afternoon, and a group of young men were "sizing up" the women on the platform, making loud comments about which ones they'd like to do what to. I was watching them closely, wondering whether they're each like that on their own. It all seemed a bit desperate to me, how they all seemed to be competing to be alpha dog.

It is pathetic. What's funny is that whenever guys stare at a girl thinking, "Dang, I like the way her ___ looks in those clothes," I'm thinking, "Oh my gosh, I must ask her where she bought that cute ____!"

[Padma]

What's funny is that whenever guys stare at a girl thinking, "Dang, I like the way her ___ looks in those clothes," I'm thinking, "Oh my gosh, I must ask her where she bought that cute ____!"

...and I'm thinking "Dang, I wonder if she likes girls..."

[Edge]

It confuses me that some people still believe the old fashioned nonsense about women and I wonder what world they live in because it's not the one I do.
However, it also pisses me off when people think females being aggressive is a good thing. No, it's not. Bullying is a serious problem for some people, mugging people is not exactly good either, etc. It's the same as when men are aggressive (I also dislike the double standard).
I think people get aggressive and assertive mixed up.
It confuses that some people make a big deal out of things that don't seem at all important to me. Like if a guy wears a skirt. I don't understand why it's a bad thing or why he'd need therapy or why it's such a big deal. I've seen a few guys who look darn good in skirts. Plus, they're comfy.
It bothers me that cis guy can look and act however he wants and he's still called a guy, but I feel like I have to prove myself. (Which may just be me feeling insecure.)
It annoys me that people try and have tried to categorize me as either masculine or feminine. I'm both.
I also don't understand why girls sneer at other girls for being girly. Why is girly an insult?

I was on a train platform this afternoon, and a group of young men were "sizing up" the women on the platform, making loud comments about which ones they'd like to do what to. I was watching them closely, wondering whether they're each like that on their own. It all seemed a bit desperate to me, how they all seemed to be competing to be alpha dog.

(I was kind of doing the same thing, but just not out loud ).

In junior high, a group of boys in my class used to do stuff like that whenever they were together, but if you got one of them away from his friends, he'd be more respectful. I think each one thinks that the others are the alphas and are trying to impress them.

[Keira]

It confuses me that some people still believe the old fashioned nonsense about women and I wonder what world they live in because it's not the one I do.
However, it also pisses me off when people think females being aggressive is a good thing. No, it's not. Bullying is a serious problem for some people, mugging people is not exactly good either, etc. It's the same as when men are aggressive (I also dislike the double standard).
I think people get aggressive and assertive mixed up.
It confuses that some people make a big deal out of things that don't seem at all important to me. Like if a guy wears a skirt. I don't understand why it's a bad thing or why he'd need therapy or why it's such a big deal. I've seen a few guys who look darn good in skirts. Plus, they're comfy.
It bothers me that cis guy can look and act however he wants and he's still called a guy, but I feel like I have to prove myself. (Which may just be me feeling insecure.)
It annoys me that people try and have tried to categorize me as either masculine or feminine. I'm both.
I also don't understand why girls sneer at other girls for being girly. Why is girly an insult?In junior high, a group of boys in my class used to do stuff like that whenever they were together, but if you got one of them away from his friends, he'd be more respectful. I think each one thinks that the others are the alphas and are trying to impress them.

"Girly" and "sissy" are insults because only about 80 years ago women were deemed "the weaker sex" by our patriarchal society. Men believed that women could only do "girl" things and guys shouldn't do "girl" things because it made them "weak". Not only that, but back then women couldn't own anything and were treated like crap by their husbands.

Women's studies anyone? Lol

[Edge]

"Girly" and "sissy" are insults because only about 80 years ago women were deemed "the weaker sex" by our patriarchal society. Men believed that women could only do "girl" things and guys shouldn't do "girl" things because it made them "weak". Not only that, but back then women couldn't own anything and were treated like crap by their husbands.

Women's studies anyone? Lol

Ok then how come girls and young women in the 21st century are using and have used "girly" as an insult?

[suzifrommd]

Ok then how come girls and young women in the 21st century are using and have used "girly" as an insult?

I think violent and macho views of power and strength have really pervaded our society. On another thread there was a discussion about the movie "Brave", where a girl is portrayed as a hero for studying (and using) weaponry instead of what her parents think she is supposed to do.

A more nurturing, care-giving view of heroism is less respected by our culture. I wonder if it is a function of the media entertainment available to us. A film or a video game where the hero comforts and supports someone would not turn the profit seen from those where the hero shoots and blows things up. A sport where the object is to see who could offer the most support would be laughed off the airways in favor of one where the strongest teams wins by elbowing the other out of the way and scoring a touch down.

Maybe because of this, we lose sight of softer, gentler forms of heroism. Soft becomes an insult even among females among whom it used to be a virtue.

[Kevin Peña]

It confuses me that some people still believe the old fashioned nonsense about women and I wonder what world they live in because it's not the one I do.
However, it also pisses me off when people think females being aggressive is a good thing. No, it's not. Bullying is a serious problem for some people, mugging people is not exactly good either, etc. It's the same as when men are aggressive (I also dislike the double standard).
I think people get aggressive and assertive mixed up.
It confuses that some people make a big deal out of things that don't seem at all important to me. Like if a guy wears a skirt. I don't understand why it's a bad thing or why he'd need therapy or why it's such a big deal. I've seen a few guys who look darn good in skirts. Plus, they're comfy.

Oh my, skirts are SUPER COMFY!  Also, what kind of people do you talk to that think anyone mugging someone is good, boy or girl?

I sometimes feel guilty, though: I actually feel satisfied when I take part in traditional female roles. My friend was sick once and his mom went to work, so I took care of him like a private nurse. It felt nice. 

I think violent and macho views of power and strength have really pervaded our society. On another thread there was a discussion about the movie "Brave", where a girl is portrayed as a hero for studying (and using) weaponry instead of what her parents think she is supposed to do.

Maybe because of this, we lose sight of softer, gentler forms of heroism. Soft becomes an insult even among females among whom it used to be a virtue.

I think that's only because a nurturing movie would be considered boring. People go to the movies for ENTERTAINMENT. Explosions and arrows are action and stimulation, thus, entertainment. I don't, however, think that people don't respect softer heroism. Ghandi didn't fight at all and he is considered a great modern hero.

However, I just got back from my EMT class and we were practicing patient assessment. This includes feeling the patient for any abrasions, punctures, etc. My partner practiced on me and was firm, but gentle and I was so turned on, so I don't know what kid of girls you're talking to that don't like softer guys. Who says guys have to be rough? 

[Keira]

Ok then how come girls and young women in the 21st century are using and have used "girly" as an insult?

Why do people who are transgender hate themselves (internalized trans phobia) ?

Why do gay men hate themselves because they are gay?

Why do women (most) obsess over what they wear or how they look?

Because society reinforces its artificially constructed ideals and norms. We're all just rats in a giant Skinner box called society. It pokes, prods and finally rewards us when we decide to be "normal".

[Edge]

Also, what kind of people do you talk to that think anyone mugging someone is good, boy or girl?

People who clearly don't know the definition of "aggressive." Before I moved, there was an article about a gang of teenaged girls who were mugging people on the west side. There's also all the bullying that gets reported (and has ended in death in some cases). That's what I think about when I hear people say that aggressiveness in girls is good. I have heard also a lot of jokes about female on male abuse. It's not funny. I don't know the sources of those, but there are a lot.
(That behaviour in anyone isn't good.)

[Snowpaw]

I must be dense because when I saw mugging I automatically assumed we were talking about girls mugging cameras all duck faced and stuff... *leaves thread ashamed*

[Kevin Peña]

Snowpaw, are you blonde?

I'm just kidding! 

[eli77]

I don't even know where to start with this stuff. I wish things were not categorized like this at all.

My best friend will say "that's because you are a girl" and look at me like he deserves a cookie. And I don't know to explain how incredibly crappy and invalidated that makes me feel. I had an emotional reaction to that thing, not because I happen to be female, but because I happen to be me.

It absolutely breaks my mind, the people who transition because they want to be treated like a woman. I hate it so much. I hate it nearly as much as when I was treated like a boy. Why can't you just treat me like a person? Why is that not a thing? Why are your assumptions about what is or is not between my bloody legs so relevant to every single aspect of my life?

And please, please stop calling me "lady." What about the men's clothing and the lack of makeup and the dyke haircut makes you think I want to be called that?

The worst part is that I know none of them are trying to be mean. They are actually just trying to behave like they are supposed to. They are being polite. It's me that is wrong. That doesn't fit.

Most of the time I can tune it out.

But some days are bad. 

[Snowpaw]

Snowpaw, are you blonde?

I'm just kidding! 

Just my bangs kinda. Why do you ask? 

[Kevin Peña]

Just my bangs kinda. Why do you ask? 

It was a joke in reference to the stereotype that blondes are... dense.

and look at me like he deserves a cookie.

It absolutely breaks my mind, the people who transition because they want to be treated like a woman. I hate it so much. I hate it nearly as much as when I was treated like a boy. Why can't you just treat me like a person? Why is that not a thing? Why are your assumptions about what is or is not between my bloody legs so relevant to every single aspect of my life?

What is with that whole cookie thing? I've seen that so many times around here. 

As for being treated like a person, there are some undeniable differences between genders. A lot of differences are only stereotypes, but a lot are also valid. If there weren't any real differences, being trans would be pointless. 

And who says that ladies can't be logical?