Is he just a CD or is he TG/TS?

[Janey]

How can I tell, are there signs that my husband is more than just a heterosexual Crossdresser? I've known for 12 years that he wears women's underwear, his collection got bigger and bigger as we had our downs in and up and down relationship. And he started shaving his body and leg hair too.

But when I met him, I actually broke up with him because he had such a huge collection of pornographic magazines in his closet (all hetero) which bothered me, and basically when he refused obstinately to get rid of it I left him. He has always been VERY sexually interested in me, and even gave up his porno collection for me when we got back together (turned out I was pregnant). He has no interest in males, and just recently, when things were very bad between us because of huge stress that has been causing a rift between us (financial pressures, parent dying, new life in a new place, lost job and then new job he doesn't like, and more quite serious 'outside' stuff weighing heavily on us all at once, etc..) and my lack of interest in sex with him (too stressed out) despite his many many overtures, he went and visited a prostitute (female), which all came out when I found the condom packet...

Ah, this is getting too involved - we will be seeing a counsellor next week for first time, he's never had counselling before. But now that I've found out that instead of doing work he was supposed to do to help ease our financial problems, he was instead dressing up in bras and skirts and such that he was buying from garage sales and secondhand stores recently, this all had to come out as our marriage would've broken up over the prostitute issue.

Thing is, today I pressed him for more info - he hasn't exactly been wanting to discuss this with me, embarrassed by it and not good at 'communication', better at hitting the bottle recently and dressing up away from me to deal with (or to 'forget' actually, and leave it all up to ME to deal with!) the pressures we have on us. He has said in passing that he would like to be dressed up in public, but doesn't know how people, or our kids, would react. He mentioned today, after I asked if he actually WANTED to be a female, that he had thought about or looked into changing sex  when he was at university, but also mentioned he had been under similar stress then too. He said that one thing he knew was that if you were going to have successful changeover (sorry, I'm not up on the lingo) you had to start hormones early or it wouldn't work well. So he'd looked into it that much. When I asked him if he had wanted to actually have the operation, he said 'it interested me, I was interested to find out about it. But I also realized that if I didn't like it, I couldn't change back'. Now, it sounds like he's saying he would like to try dressing up in public somehow, but he's also very concerned about looking stupid. His words were: if I look good I'd like to, if I look ridiculous I don't want to.

He has only really done a small amount of investigation into all of this, I was surprised at that actually. In the past 2 days I've learned more than he knows. He doesn't know what's going on with him, he's embarrassed by it, he doesn't know what he wants or what it's all about. He's not interested at all in sex with men, and is still very interested in sex with me,and I did find a few female porno printouts in his things when I realized what he was up to and was looking around for more evidence. He said tonight that he just started this more involved dressing up (and heading down to look at the prostitutes and eventually getting the nerve up to solicit one) since our problems started, and that he reckoned that when the pressure was relieved he "knew" he wouldn't be as interested in the dressing up in the way he's going at it now. So, there's a few conflicting things he's told me, and he clearly doesn't know what's going on with himself, and he has let the thought of changing gender cross his mind to the extent that he did some looking into it 20-odd years ago, and somewhere in there was mentioned his wanting to be dressing in public. But he DOESN"T KNOW. That's the thing.

Please, any observations would be very welcome. The only big question I have is: is he possibly a transgender who at some point could start wanting to become a female even if things are going well in our lives again (and they will, we're working on that, we both want it)?? Or is he just a hetero cross dresser who hasn't understood what's going on with himself and why, and who has explored every avenue in his quest to figure things out? Are there any signs here that point in either direction? The difference between CD, TG and TS are still not understood by me, and if he doesn't understand, I atleast need to...

Thank you all, I so need some information and opinions (and will respect them as 'opinions' )- I just know that this is the place to find out other's experiences, and your experience may help to shed light on what the future MIGHT (or might not) hold...

[Melissa-kitty]

Welcome!!
I'm so glad for both of you that you will be seeing a counselor next week. A wonderful start. At this point, the process is more important than answers to your questions. What I mean is, that with honest exploration, and less hiding aspects from you, more communication, not only will answers come, but a better way of being together may come about. It may be that your husband needs individual work in addition to marital therapy. That is to be expected. I can understand fear and dread on your part, but I'm hoping for a very positive process for you both.
Read, explore here. I recommend "My husband, Betty" and "She's not the man I married" good books, well written, and insightful. You can find them at any well-stocked bookstore.
Good luck!
Tara

[Kate]

The difference between CD, TG and TS are still not understood by me, and if he doesn't understand, I atleast need to...

Don't feel bad, even we still argue over terms. In an attempt to clarify things and make sure we're all talking about the same things, some standard definitions have been proposed here.

A qualified gender therapist is always your best bet in helping him sort this all out. But that being said... IMHO and all that... some thoughts:

There seems to be a really strong sexual component to his motivations, such as the focus on underwear, bras and skirts... prostitutes... pornography... which sounds less likely a transsexual and more likely a TV.

Keep in mind though that many TSs identify as lesbians, so being being attracted to women in no way disqualifies "him" as a transsexual.

Many CDrs enjoy going out in public and "passing" as genetic women. It's not necessarily a symptom of TSism.

As for hormones.... effectiveness depends more on genetics than age it seems. Some say the effectiveness drops off a bit after 28 or so (though still create changes), but others say that's nonsense. In ANY case, they DO work quite well for most people, regardless of age. You'll find people here of all ages who are quite pleased with their results.

What does the future hold? That's impossible to answer, it's always going to be a gamble if you stay - even if he SWEARS he's not a TS.  If he IS a transsexual, this need will most likely eventually overpower all other considerations and force him to deal with it somehow. If you look around the forum, you'll see it happening everywhere... we fight and resist and say "No way I can do that!" and then... we do.

BUT... if he's a CDr/TV, then it may never progress beyond dressing up temporarily.

The question is: does he *need* to be FEMALE? Does he need the life, the role, the body... and to LIVE that way?

Or does he want to indulge in the accessories of femininity, such as clothing, makeup, etc.? For some people, even this "progresses" to a desire to live permanently in that role.

I'm sorry there aren't any clear-cut answers. The sad thing is, it's ALWAYS going to be a gamble with him now. One thing you can do is help him to feel safe in talking about *anything* with you. Fear of ridicule and rejection keeps so many of us from telling the truth, how we really feel, and that can REALLY mess things up later on. Trust me on this

~Kate~

[Janey]

I must say I hadn't considered that he could be TS/lesbian. So I've learned something.

About making him feel safe about talking about *anything* - if there is fear of ridicule and rejection he will very possibly not be totally honest with me. But therein lies the rub: in order to make him 'not fear rejection' so that he can be open and honest, I might myself have to be dishonest to atleast some degree! He's already lied to me plenty for fear of my reaction (the prostitute - denied for half an hour, then suddenly came clean), and I know now that I cannot tell by his demeanor when he's lying. He doesn't want or like to lie, but he's done it plenty for self-preservation as it were. I'm pretty sure he's come clean now about everything in our lives together up to this point (of course you never EVER know for sure - that's why trust is such a major issue in a relationship and can make or break it).

So why would someone NOT know that they want to be a woman? How does one know or not know? My husband is much more honest than most, but not the greatest at self-reflection. So if he really felt an urge, strong or otherwise, to actually BE a woman, I *think* he would atleast know that, he's not afraid of things like that, just embarrassed that others would find out and choosing, though not necessarily preferring, to keep it out of public eye. Oops gotta go, back later...

[Dennis]

It's hard to explain, but I was in denial about being male for nearly 25 years. I knew before puberty, but the amount of peer pressure and wanting to conform helped me put it in denial. I had a few glimpses of what I really wanted before I finally gave up and transitioned, but it was usually just when I ran into other FtM guys and that didn't happen very often.

So yeah you can be in denial even to yourself, but the safer it feels to be allowed to think about it, the more the denial will break down. Going to a counsellor is a good step. Many heterosexual men remain cross dressers all their lives; it is a minority who feel they need to transition.

Good luck to you,

Dennis

[Janey]

Gosh, I just wrote a whole 'reply' here, then hit 'post' and it said I'd already replied - SO frustrating, I don't think I have time or frame of mind to say it all over again now.

Reading through this forum, it would appear that most people in here are transitional, which of course makes it *seem* like the majority of cross dressers will eventually transition. The counselor we're going to see is a transgender counselor *and* marriage counselor, so two birds with one stone. Of course my husband will get counseling alone, but he said he thnks he wants me there with him (for the first session anyway) - he's never had much good to say about counseling, doesn't trust it, so I reckon he reckons it will serve no purpose for him to be there alone as he'd just be getting  pissed off about doing something that he thinks is a waste of time, and be not very cooperative.

Dennis thanks for your input - thanks everyone so far, more good advice, more food for thought, and really good to hear your stories too. It so helps to hear many different viewpoints, we are all individual after all no matter whether transgender or not. There are often some universal characteristics that can apply to a certain 'group', and experiences can often (but not always) be very similar, which is why I'm here.

I did mention in the post that didn't get posted, that I wonder if one way that a nontransitional can become transitional is by being around transexuals and 'getting used to it', and breaking down any inhibiting phobias - the 'normalization' of a condition that seemed too abhorrent to contemplate perhaps? That does worry me, sorry but I have to be honest. Because honestly, I'm not gay, but I can see how if gayness was normalized around me, I *could* start being attracted to women - it happens in prisons for instance... So I have that great worry, especially as the people who are most vocal, most 'out', most in sight are the transexuals and transitionals - so that as a CD one would have more exposure to people who have done, or will, transition, than to CDs who are happily hetero... Please, any comments on that?

[MeghanAndrews]

Hi Janey,
First, congratulations for having the courage and honesty to come searching for answers. You've done more than many wives already. By reading and learning, you can't go wrong. I don't know what to think about the sexual nature of his dressing, honestly. I do think therapy is a good thing though no matter what. If he dresses just for sexual satisfaction, I think he would fall more into the TV realm than TS, but those lines get crossed sometimes. Maybe gender is a struggle for him and that's why he sought out a prostitute, to 'remind' him that he is a 'guy'? I do think that this will be a long road and that it will take months and maybe years to get answers for himself. You might be feeling like you need answers pretty quickly so you know what to do and what your future holds, but be prepared for him to take a while to figure things out. Keep open lines of communication, and, most importantly, try to encourage him to talk about his feelings and emotions. Be prepared for whatever decision he might make and try to be as supportive as possible knowing that he needs to be honest to himself in order to be honest to you. Good luck Janey, we're here if you need us. Meghan

[Kate]

So I have that great worry, especially as the people who are most vocal, most 'out', most in sight are the transexuals and transitionals - so that as a CD one would have more exposure to people who have done, or will, transition, than to CDs who are happily hetero... Please, any comments on that?

I don't think it's possible to "make" someone a transsexual, though I can see where a CDr might be tempted to TRY and transition after seeing how much happier TSs usually are afterwards. But ya know, things get pretty real pretty fast with hormones... breasts start budding, the male sex drive usually (though not always) drops to nil, permanent sterility is a possibility... I'd imagine it all scares most people from continuing unless they ARE transsexual.

The thing is, with CDing, you can take off the makeup and clothes at the end of the evening and go back to your safe life. But transitioning is permanent, and it really tries and tests someone... it's NOT easy, it's not "fun" or an indulgent fantasy. Most people here will probably tell you it's the most difficult and frightening thing they've ever done. It takes a ton of determination (aka "desperation") to get through it, and I just don't know if someone who *isn't* TS could get through it.

And yet, I think one of the best ways to help people who ARE determined to transiton IS to "normalize" it. My own fears were HUGE, and in fact my own wife constantly tells me, "I thought I was safe, because there was just no way you, of all people, COULD do this!" And yes, coming here and reading everyone's stories and pleading for help over 2,000 of my posts DID help convince me there was hope, that I had a chance. But no one convinced me I was TS or needed to transition - they merely showed me that I COULD do it, that it can work.

And for that, I literally owe these people my life.

~Kate~

[Janey]

(The following is just some ramblings that apparently I needed to get out of my system - I actually only had a short and specific question I *thought* I was going to be asking here! But I'm leaving the following in for myself really, so feel free to skip over to next post!)

Thanks again for the responses... I'm going through some real changes at the moment, but perhaps not the ones you usually hear about from the SOs here!  Perhaps I should mention that I threw my husband out some days ago - I caught him out in another lie - a 'lesser' lie in the overall scheme of things I THINK, but trust after the prostitute incident is THE issue of the moment, and I just couldn't believe that he thought he would keep getting more chances - I knew he'd gone out somewhere beyond where he was supposed to be 5 nights ago because the car odomoter doesn't lie, but when I asked if he'd gone anywhere besides 'the other place' where he was supposed to be, he denied denied denied. Since the extra distance on the odometer could have taken him to the prostitute area and back, it was particularly important that he not lie to me this time. But only when I finally mentioned the odometer reading did he suddenly admit he was off at drop-off bins looking through women's clothing - well that's what he says anyway - and was too embarrassed to say. Maybe he's lying about that too. GOD what a tangled web we weave... HOW could he lie to me again, after all we went through with the lying about the prostitute issue for an entire half an hour until the evidence - condom packet - was produced. And then the days and weeks of dealing with that, and then finally deciding to fight through it all and make a go at a whole new life, and then.... another f***ing lie! And I only know about the lies I KNOW about, if that makes sense. He swears he hasn't lied to me about anything else - but then he lied about both of these things too, until I pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed (and got abused, and dirty looks, and pathetic looks, and so on) and pushed and pushed and pushed again.

So why am I going on and on and on about the above? Because in between all of this (or during it really, which is the problem, as it wasn't separated out to be discussed on its own) my husband admits he's wearing women's clothing and wants to 'go out' (whatever that meant, I wasn't paying enough attention) but is embarrassed, that he's explored at atleast one point having an operation, etc. Well every time he mentions the CDing, I tell him it's not a big deal, yet he keeps making it a big deal (in other words he keeps excusing his lies and certain behaviour by suggesting that he did so because he was embarrassed for me to know about it, even though he's been openly wearing women't underwear for all the time I"ve known him - problem too with that excuse is that he's now talked to me, however briefly, about it atleast 2 or 3 times and I've never reacted once in any way that showed I even thought there was any big deal at all, and I've even said so, saying "so? I know it's not that uncommon" and so on) - but doesn't tell me anything about it, just about his embarrassment. He's a lousy communicator. He has nothing to offer on the issue himself, just mentions it and his embarrassment, starts answering my questions, but doesn't have many answers. And then we never speak of it again, it only came up as an almost incidental thing, and nothing changes - I know NOTHING really about what's going on. But meanwhile his bras and lingerie tops are showing up on the luandry line, and he's rescuing only THEM and not the other clothes when it starts raining (so clearly gaining in importance), and he's not taking great care to hide them - so they're there, carefully placed in easy reach (for what exactly??) shouting at me for attention. Yet I'm not any part of that at all, no explanations or information given to me, no including me, just nothing nada.

In the most recent lying incident 5 days ago, at one point he got mad at me for pushing him on it and said to me "I'm quitting, I'm outta here, I'll stay at (so and so)". He didn't go, he's pulled that one a few times in the past but hasn't gone, and the argument continued. But that night after he'd finally told me The Truth (??!!) and I had expressed my great upset at his lying to me yet again, he suddenly started acting a bit uppity and disrespectful towards me - not unusual behaviour under our present long-term stressful circumstances, but just a LITTLE too cocky for someone who had just been caught out in a highly-potentially marriage-breaking lie. He might, just *might*,  have been expected to behave in just a little more humble and remorseful manner as a sign of, what, good faith maybe? That was the last straw, I told him to get out now, I just couldn't be around him any more. So he's been at our other place all this time, and I've been here on my own with all these zillions of questions that I suddenly realized I need to ask/know and, as I research more and more, all these emotions and fears and so on. I wanted us to be apart so we could both think, and maybe come to some realization about what is important to us both...that works for me, but boy for a guy who just told me he really wants us to stay together, it doesn't seem to have started working for him yet - he just can't *not* be cocky, talkbackish or defensive when we've seen each other this week, just his usual old (stressed out of course) self actually. I shouldn't have married him in the first place, I knew that - BUT, when these issues arose, and in some ways BECAUSE these issues arose, I had had a chance to really think long and hard about 'us' for the first time in many years, and to realize that we *could*, with effort, have a pretty decent life together, that if we both tried to make each other happy from now on instead of UNhappy, we would have a really good chance of some great family years ahead. There's a happy person inside of me just waiting to burst out .

And then the sh*t hits the fan (i.e. the additional 'little' issue of his crossdressing (and more?)!! So, I've hardly been able to talk to him for almost a week, I  (or we?) have a counseling  appointment in 2 days, and there's still so much I want to ask, can't ask, don't know - about TG/TSism, about the CDing and how I figure out how to talk to him about it since he doesn't really broach the subject himself, and only answers questions I ask - which is NOT the way I'd LIKE it to be, but I don't know how to get out of this rut, and so on and on and on. So here I am!

Posted on: June 30, 2007, 08:54:39 AMSo, my *big* question: I didn't know anything about TGs, and have always assumed (and thought I'd had it confirmed from a few random posts I saw elsewhere on this forum) that with an operation or hormone treatment one becomes asexual. Even after trying to find more information about this on the net and here, I'm still very very confused about that point.

Kate's comment above about some TSs being 'lesbian' was a complete surprise to me. I'm just trying to see into every possible 'future scenario' of this situation, and at first when I contemplated the worst case (for myself anyway), which would have been sex operation and/or hormone treatment (transition?), I assumed that there would be no sex because he would no longer be physically capable or desirous, that having either of those takes away your sexual appetite and/or 'ability'. PLEASE someone, enlighten me on this issue, I so need to know these things and have found no answers yet.

The other big question is: could he start being attracted to men? He never has been as far as I knew, and did confirm to me recently that he's not at all attracted to men and never has been. He had a very active sex life with women before I met him, and during our marriage he wanted it all the time - he's not a good communicator, and sex is his best way of showing love, amongst it's other attractions! (in answer to the suggestion that he may, with a prostitute, have been trying to affirm his male gender: he went to a prostitute after having tried unsuccessfully to approach me for a long long time for sex. Yes I could always be wrong, he COULD be lying to me or himself - but that this happened  only after I had turned down his many approaches over a long period, and that he told me (REPROACHED me I should emphasise)  that this was how and why it had happened...?). PLEASE  tell me anything there is to tell about the possibility of sex op/hormones changing his sexual attraction to me.

And anything else I might find useful to know about how things might change/stay the same for us afterwards?

[Kendall]

I am not TS but have read a few posts. I am an androgyne, which means in-between gender. I have always felt in between, and havent moved from cd to now, nor will I ever have any SRS. Though, in my case hrt has given me some feminine characteristics. I have always felt a mixture of genders, a sorta inbetween. Will he change into a woman if he hangs out with transsexuals? Only if that is his gender identity, to answer your question. So really the question is what gender identity. His response so far is all you have to go by. Maybe you can get him to explain his experience and as questions about how he feels.

There have been posts I have read that say after hrt MtF that suddenly men were attractive. Some loose all sexual libido. Some have the same attraction to women, though definately the way and methods might change (one of them can tell how, I cant). I cant say how to tell or signs of what may happen. My orientation hasnt changed from my experience.

I can tell you that yes the sex drive will decrease (which many or most find a blessing) and places will become quite sore, and almost unbearable (at least for me). And even without surgery to remove it, 'it' might decrease ability permanently to be used and permanent sterilization.

His telling you that he looked into and found that there is no way of going back, might be an indicator that he is not TS. But I really cant tell, and considering his chain of lies.

His deception, lies, and prostitution are another thing. And lack of responsibility in the marraige.

When he went to the prostitute, you might want to ask or find out if crossdressing was involved. There are many different kinds of crossdressing. It might be cross dressing related. Prostitutes sometimes "dress up" or 'force' them [not really forced but in a roleplay sense] into their girl clothing. And that could be what happened. In other words, he could have been looking for some companionship in his crossdressing or something like that if its more a fetish. His constantly mentioning that he is "embarassed" almost sounds like he wants your help to dress, or for you to "show" him how. If this is the case, he is probably not TS or attracted to men, though such activities may consume tons of money, time, and certainly mean public outings. And could even lead to him wanting to "dress up" in bed. And even daily cross dressing. Some crossdressers can become transgenderists, that dress the part every day, even in public, but never do hormones or SRS. Any crossdresser on the site can correct me if these words are wrong.

This is my interpretation, and may be wrong.

I know your preparing for full on transition, which many of the wonderful women here have done.

[Kate]

I caught him out in another lie...

I keep biting my tongue, because this is none of my business, BUT it sounds like his CDing is the least of your concerns. His consistent dishonesty, and his being so totally self-absorbed with HIS desires at the expense of your happiness and your marriage is what concerns me.

While it's true that lies breed more lies, you've given him so many chances to break that chain... and yet he keeps on lying.

The more you describe it, the more it does all sound like a sexual fetish. There's nothing wrong with that of course, it's a common thing in fact - but with some people it can take over their lives, becoming very obsessive, pushing aside even those they love. Your description of him saving his prized articles from the rain, while leaving everything else out there to be ruined is perhaps very metaphorical of how he thinks?

I assumed that there would be no sex because he would no longer be physically capable or desirous, that having either of those takes away your sexual appetite and/or 'ability'.

Most post-ops (people who have had the genital surgery) are fully capable of enjoying sex, both physically and emotionally - but as females of course. Some do become assexual, but many if not most remain as sexual as they were before the operation. The main difference is that HRT often makes MALE sex difficult (not with everyone though), basically making us impotent. For many TSs, this is a *welcome* thing, as being aroused as a male is terrible embarassing for many (but not all) of us.

Still, even after ten months of HRT, I do desperately crave intimacy. Not sex per se, but I crave to be touched, to be wanted, to be desired... and to please a guy (whom I love, not a stranger) by having that LEAD to sex. But I don't crave sex for the sake of sex.

The other big question is: could he start being attracted to men?

If he's not attracted to men now, AND if he enjoys his sex life with women... it's not likely. Possible, as it DOES happen... but not likely.

In my case, even though I've been married for sixteen years, we rarely had sex. I never initiated it, and when my wife did, I'd try to find SOME way to get out of it. I didn't mind the foreplay, it's just that many TSs don't want to use their male genitals for intercourse.

BUT, I'll admit I really didn't think about having sex with men until I got into therapy over a year ago. I was never "gay," meaning I had and have no interest in having sex with men AS a man. But now that I'm becoming less and less male physically... the idea of FINALLY having an intimate relationship with a guy I love and who loves me is very, VERY appealing.

But HRT didn't "change" me... it's just allowing a frustrated desire that was always there to unfold at last.

~Kate~

[Nero]

I'd put money on transvestite.


Just my opinion based on what you've shared with us.

Nero

[tinkerbell]

I'd put money on transvestite.


Just my opinion based on what you've shared with us.

Nero

Ditto!  of course, we are just stating our opinions based on your thread.  Only a gender therapist is qualified to give you an appropriate diagnosis.

Transvestic Fetishism

tink

[Janey]

ken/kendra,

Thanks for answering in such detail, I really need and appreciate that so many of you have taken the time and effort to *really answer* me the way you have - whatever happens (and I say that because our time apart is making it painfully clearer and clearer that getting back 'together' with my husband is not the best option for me -  and please note the irony that CD/TG/TS will be the *least* of the reasons for that!!), there will always have to be ties between us as we have still-young children.

The more information I'm getting from everyone here, the more a fuzzy picture is coming into focus and things I had made assumptions about, or hadn't noticed or given significance to or understood, are getting clear. It may be the paranoia of being lied to so often that nothing I took for granted before can be trusted now and so must be revisited in a different way, but ironically (considering the direction my ramblings and questions have led many of YOU) *I'm* actually thinking more and more from things said here and in other threads that there's a lot of 'historical evidence' (though I may be reaching in some cases - but who could blame me for that? I'm too conditioned now *not* to suspect the 'worse' in every situation) to atleast *consider* that my husband is TS, whether *he* knows it or not.  Revelation has to happen THIS way, through my own solitary journey into the depths of this 'unkown' world, as my husband is giving nothing away (and perhaps now never will, but then who knows for SURE about anything, hey, certainly not me!!).  Ch-ch-changes...

So thanks for sharing...and won't you all please hang around a bit longer, I have absolutely no-one outside of this forum that I can speak to about these things, a situation I'm sure  none of you are strangers to...

[Lucy]

Janey, I am a married man who Identifies as female a M2F TS but I am not transitioning because of the love of my life can not stand the idea of it, my partner her self is not gay so a relationship with another woman would not be exceptable to her. For many the  need to transition is so great thet its a do or die situation, I am not there yet so am living in the body I was given.

You must realise that you husband may not be TG and may get some form of errotica out of his form of dressing, only with communication with him are you really going to find out at what stage he is at.

There is not hard and fast rule in these situations, every-one and every-ones situation is different. As you have been able to find out here there are so many veriying degrees of the transgender pool that your partner may be in there some where or no where.

I hope for the sake of your children that you find out what you both need soon and that you open up the communication once again.
I just wanted you to know that these situations can work them selves out and you may be able to live happily together.

Hope to here from you again

XXX LUCY XXX

[Janey]

I keep biting my tongue, because this is none of my business, BUT it sounds like his CDing is the least of your concerns. His consistent dishonesty, and his being so totally self-absorbed with HIS desires at the expense of your happiness and your marriage is what concerns me.

While it's true that lies breed more lies, you've given him so many chances to break that chain... and yet he keeps on lying

Thanks for not biting your tongue on this one Kate!

(By the way, we women *don't* bite our tongues, we communicate, which is how we learn and grow. Men's downfall is the inability, as they would argue it, or unwillingness, as women would argue it, to communicate their inner feelings or worries, or to instigate dialogue to sort problems, with anywhere near the same ease, honesty and openness. The *talk*, even with complete strangers, is the very best thing about being a woman, it's a true joy!  Men are not incapable of perceptive and 'deep' talk - and when they *are* capable, even greater bliss! My first husband was such a joy to talk to all the time, and such a great listener too, that we still stayed up all night many nights a week after years of marriage just talking. Unfortunately, for a number of reasons  I lost my physical attraction to him over time, though he did not with me - so karma is at play here in a major way, as I do not necessarily find my husband physically unattractive (I know, strange choice of words?), but he can't manage even a 5 minute 'deep' conversation without annoyance and eyes glazed over. Another irony in the saga of Janey and her CD husband - but the Universe must have its balance...)

Your description of him saving his prized articles from the rain, while leaving everything else out there to be ruined is perhaps very metaphorical of how he thinks?

This is a very perceptive observation - there was something I couldn't quite put my finger on about this and why exactly it affected me or stood out so much in my conscience that I described it the way I did, as 'shouting' at me, and when you said this I immediately recognized it as what I had been unable to consciously understand.

Thanks for sharing with me your own experiences with transition and post-op and greater details of your relationship and how it changed (not just Kate, but everyone). I guess if I thought my husband and I were destined to stay together, I would have felt some fear knowing that if he did decide to transition or beyond he could become attracted more to men. But who knows, he may be attracted to them even now for all that I can believe what he tells me. The more I learn though, the more I think I have more to fear from all the niggling doubts and suspicions that his behaviour has forced in me than from any changes that only just *might* have had to be faced anywhere down the line. See, I've already grown this much in just a matter of days...

Meanwhile, day 6 of separation and it transpires that my husband has forgotten that our conselling appointment is tomorrow... and as he unthinkingly uttered this confession, the gods looked on and laughed as they tossed down the (last?) nail for the coffin.

Posted on: July 01, 2007, 10:20:46 AM...things get pretty real pretty fast with hormones...

Kate, I meant to point out earlier that your comment above can be read in more than one way with slight change of punctuation, i.e.:

... things get pretty - real pretty - fast with hormones... 

Posted on: July 01, 2007, 10:56:10 AMLucy,

(I'm not used yet to these MtF or FtM acronyms, so I at first misread your message thinking you were female-to-male.)

You mention that your wife is not gay and could not accept a relationship with a woman, which is why you're not transitioning. From this may I assume that even if you transitioned you would expect to remain attracted to women??  If so, how do you know? have you considered that you might become attracted to males, and if so have you thought about how that would affect your relationship with your wife (if she was more accepting)? Have you thought about whether or not you would have (or want) a sexual relationship with her (if she wanted)? Are you still interested in sexual relations at the moment with her?

I hope you don't mind these intimate questions, but I won't get answers unless I ask!


Posted on: July 01, 2007, 11:13:36 AMCounselor visit over and done - deserves a thread all of its own, I certainly have a few things to say about TS (i.e. the counselor herself, it turned out) transgender/marriage counselors, and questions about where and how they get their 'training'!

But the really important thing for today is that a long talk with my sister (who knew nothing before today about pur problems) that included tearful descriptions of my husband's bizarre, forgetful, self-centered, unthinking, emotionally immature, etc behaviour over the past 12 years elicited from her the breakthrough-for-us utterance: "sounds just like ADD". Wow! I think my whole world may have just done a complete 180! After the counseling visit, I jumped on the internet to look up 'ADD', and there, described to the very 'T', was my husband! I am so excited by this new development - I found a site that listed 75-odd characteristics of adult ADD,and even my husband had to admit when he read them that a large majority of them did indeed apply to him. I have been so frustrated and hurt by the things he has said and done to me all these years, and to suddenly learn that his is very likely a recognized and (somewhat-) treatable documented condition is like the greatest weight imaginable lifted from me! I can actually allow myself to believe that, with effort of course, forgiveness and happiness is now a real possibility! Perhaps so much elation before proper medical diagnosis is a bit premature - but I have no doubt whatsoever that this condition will be confirmed by a competent doctor.

What a hand to be dealt in life, eh? TG *and* ADD...and then you die!

[Lucy]

Hi Janey Im going to reply to your awnsers then go back to your new post. I am as you have worked out male to female and I am mainly attracted to women, I am bi Curious and always have been this is because I am attracted to men but a physical relationship would be impossible, so would I stay mainly atraccted to women? I think the awnser to that is yes, I would like to continue the relationship with my wife even through transition but yet this is not possible. Unfortunetly for us nothing in this life is as easy as it seems to come out to family and friends was a very difficult thing to do been as I had hidden this form them for so long, so knowing that my sexuallity wont change is impossable.

We are continuing a sexual relationship although it is difficult, my depression seems to affect things downstairs and haveing a physical relationship is becoming harder and harder. I have never been a very sexual person anyway so this is no real supprise to my partner anyway. If I start to transition it is the end of my marrage and I dont want that to happen if I can help it. The need to take HRT may however be greater than wanting to stay married on day (I hope not). Like I saia earlier it comes to do or die eventually for a lot of TS people.

Good luck LUCY

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Janey I had to look up what you ment by ADD, I do know children with this and know about the drugs they are taking to help combat this. They are very different people, very different indeed. I hope that this works out for you and your partner can get through this with your help.

[Alison]

Welcome to Susan's Janey!

I'm the significant other to a MtF transsexual, and went through a lot of the same fears...  Firstly you need to get him to stop lying to you, Why do you think hes covering things up?  Do you think its embarrasment or that he thinks you'd be upset with him?  When Jaycie first came out to me, I promised to listen to everything she had to say and that I wouldn't be too quick to judge, as long as she was 110% honest with me...  The fact she kept this side of herself private for so long did feel like she lied to me... and it hurt pretty bad.. that our entire relationship was built on something that wasn't real... ('he' isn't real... he is a woman)  But I figured out that thats not even true... the relationship was built because I love -this person- with all of my heart, my love goes beyond gender lines.. I loved her as Jason, I love her as Jaycie.... I'm also attracted to women so it worked out well for us, we're still together and plan to stay together forever

Sexual orientation is something totally seperate from gender identity... He may be a lesbian or not... but the hormones won't -make- him change what he finds attractive.. if his orientation "changes" its more likely because he's finally being true to himself, IE: he refused to believe he could be attracted to men before, and feels "allowed" to now.  I wouldn't worry about it too much truthfully..

About TS becoming asexual after HRT/surgery?   well, its a personal decision... We fully intend on having an active sex life after surgery   we have an active sex life now.. we just have sex differently... as two women, instead of a woman and a man....

I wish you guys luck   The therapist is a wonderful idea, they may help you guys to understand whats going on... I reccomend seperate and together therapy.. it helps to have some time with the therapist alone, and also helps to go together...

PM me if you want to talk :

[Bob]

I'll say this...
not everybody's Sexualism is the same or runs at the same VOLUME...
some people are "OVER SEXED" or Over Driven if you prefure that term
it sounds like our boy is definitely driven very hard if you'll pardon the pun...
I know this because at one time I was what I Term as a "over Sexed " person,  when in doubt jump on it ! and all that !  I couldn't possibly get enough  and any prospect to get more was intriguing indeed !
the thing is I was DRIVEN to this, it wasn't my normal state of being, but it became my normal state of being as time went on... I began to see everything in a sexual way... became very outgoing ( totally unlike me)
and less and less concerned about my wifes feelings because my need was so great.... then she told me she didn't want to have sex any more,  it was almost more than I could take ! I figured if I can't get it at home I'll get it somewhere else then ! ... I didn't but I thought it !
... you must understand a mans drive is a strong one ! and it will push him to destruction if he lets it... the problem is its not under his control at all... he is at the mercy of it and there is NO mercy in a high sex drive!...
I had this problem for years every waking thought was of sex... having sex 2 times a day still wasn't enough...   the clothes and CD stuff is just a mere turn on, something to keep him on the edge anything that turns him on is going to be explored... he needs more ! NOT less !
if you say no more sex to him you drive him out faster than a rat from a sinking ship !  his complete sense of being is SEX right now...
... I finally got to a point that it leveled off a bit with me...
and sex once a day was enough to placate my desires... though almost every waking moment was of sex it backed off slightly and I could actually think of other things for once.....
then I went to my doctor and he put me on antidepressants and BAMM the sex drive was nailed to the floor... and if you want the truth that is a good thing !  because it was so very very strong before, now its tolerable...
...
so take my advice get your Hubby to the doctor and get him on antidepressants, their side effect is what your after and its worth its weight in gold.... not only am I not deeply depressed anymore but my sex drive is controllable...
....
Personally I will never understand why Wives all go through the I don't want to have sex anymore thing... perhaps its a evolutionary thing that forces the male to go find others and spred out the gean pool I DUNNO!
but its one of the Meanest things I've ever seen, do that to a Man that is highly driven sexually and he has no other choice but to go elsewhere
... and believe me "taking the situation in hand", does nothing to curb the desire when your that far gone...
he needs Professional help.... heck I needed professional help...
but only got it by default and by accident....
.... I seriously doubt this type of sexual drive is NORMAL,  medication would do him a world of good !

for what its worth, my 2 coppers worth!

Bob..........