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do you think you're beautiful? why? or why not?

Started by katia, May 10, 2007, 11:59:56 AM

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katia

i never answered my own thread. tsk tsk tsk   yes, i'm beautiful. i don't need words from a man [or a woman] to make me feel beautiful or to justify to myself that I am beautiful.  a truly beautiful woman knows she is beautiful because she  exudes beauty in everything she touches, says, thinks and does.
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Pica Pica

Makes beauty sound a little like a disease.
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MeghanAndrews

Katia,
I feel like I have the ability to be beautiful, that keeps me going. I definitely feel beautiful on the inside. I think that with a little surgery, I'll be sey :) Meghan
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Jessica

No I don't.
Because I own a mirror and an objective mind.

Jessica
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Renae.Lupini

beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I happen to love myself and think I am very beautiful. Beauty does not have to be covergirl hotness. Simply accepting and loving ourselves makes us beautiful to the world around us and most importantly to ourselves.
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Pica Pica

Because I'm quite keen on myself, but there is no way I'd describe myself as beautiful. Expressive perhaps, but not beautiful.
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Wendy

Quote from: Katia on May 22, 2007, 03:37:20 PM
... a truly beautiful woman knows she is beautiful because she  exudes beauty in everything she touches, says, thinks and does.

Hmm that sounds like inner beauty.   I can design a beautiful garden that all can admire, or cut the molding for a room and give it character, or make a meal that can make your mouth water, or make people laugh.  However I look like a gorilla without the hair. I would opt for the wig that cousin It uses on the Adams family.
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melissa90299

Quote from: Katia on May 22, 2007, 03:37:20 PM
i never answered my own thread. tsk tsk tsk   yes, i'm beautiful. i don't need words from a man [or a woman] to make me feel beautiful or to justify to myself that I am beautiful.  a truly beautiful woman knows she is beautiful because she  exudes beauty in everything she touches, says, thinks and does.
Well by that definition, I am not beautiful as there are many times when things I say, touch or think and do exude things other than beauty.

Quote from: Amy T. on May 22, 2007, 03:17:00 PM
Quote from: melissa90299 on May 22, 2007, 01:59:35 PM
I didn't mean to hurt anyone, I am just giving my opinion, and I am steadfast in my belief that, in my world, a wig on a white woman is a dead giveaway, unless it's Halloween or Bay to Breakers, whatever. And I don't know anyone who can't spot a wig a mile away, sometimes I think I live in some parallel universe, maybe I do.

That is probably the case.
You have to realize, it may be harder to pass in SF because being TS is more common, but it is not as big a deal when you don't pass.
It is different in different cities.  I have only been clocked once...even up close, and it was not because of my wig...but my credit card (and even then it took them awhile to figure things out).  To most people with the wig, I just look like a waifish flat chested woman.  Even if somebody caught onto the wig, the first thing that pops into thier mind is not TS, but rather cancer. 

The truth is the first things that will give you away is height, frame and then facial features, not whether or not you are wearing a wig.  I know perfectly passable TS who have to wear wigs. They pass because their complete presentation is right.  Even if people catch onto the wig, that may be ALL they catch onto, and they will not necessarily leap to the TS assumption if everything else looks right.



In that case, I would just shave my head. I suspect that your threshold for passibilty is a lot lower than mine. Almost all TS woman will be read when closely scrutinized by someone who knows what to look for and wearing a wig is a sure way to get that scrutiny.

BTW I "clock" transwomen several times a day, I don't run up to them and taunt them, in fact, I try to avoid them. So how does one know when she is clocked?
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seldom

Quote from: melissa90299 on May 25, 2007, 12:29:32 AM
Quote from: Katia on May 22, 2007, 03:37:20 PM
i never answered my own thread. tsk tsk tsk   yes, i'm beautiful. i don't need words from a man [or a woman] to make me feel beautiful or to justify to myself that I am beautiful.  a truly beautiful woman knows she is beautiful because she  exudes beauty in everything she touches, says, thinks and does.
Well by that definition, I am not beautiful as there are many times when things I say, touch or think and do exude things other than beauty.

Quote from: Amy T. on May 22, 2007, 03:17:00 PM
Quote from: melissa90299 on May 22, 2007, 01:59:35 PM
I didn't mean to hurt anyone, I am just giving my opinion, and I am steadfast in my belief that, in my world, a wig on a white woman is a dead giveaway, unless it's Halloween or Bay to Breakers, whatever. And I don't know anyone who can't spot a wig a mile away, sometimes I think I live in some parallel universe, maybe I do.

That is probably the case.
You have to realize, it may be harder to pass in SF because being TS is more common, but it is not as big a deal when you don't pass.
It is different in different cities.  I have only been clocked once...even up close, and it was not because of my wig...but my credit card (and even then it took them awhile to figure things out).  To most people with the wig, I just look like a waifish flat chested woman.  Even if somebody caught onto the wig, the first thing that pops into thier mind is not TS, but rather cancer. 

The truth is the first things that will give you away is height, frame and then facial features, not whether or not you are wearing a wig.  I know perfectly passable TS who have to wear wigs. They pass because their complete presentation is right.  Even if people catch onto the wig, that may be ALL they catch onto, and they will not necessarily leap to the TS assumption if everything else looks right.



In that case, I would just shave my head. I suspect that your threshold for passibilty is a lot lower than mine. Almost all TS woman will be read when closely scrutinized by someone who knows what to look for and wearing a wig is a sure way to get that scrutiny.

BTW I "clock" transwomen several times a day, I don't run up to them and taunt them, in fact, I try to avoid them. So how does one know when she is clocked?

I have a very easy time ready TS who had dramatic FFS, why, because I know how to spot it a mile away.   It comes with the territory of being TS.  When you know what to look for, these things are much easier to figure out.  In fact I have an easier time spotting radical FFS and other extensive cosmetic surgery then a passable TS wearing a wig.  No offense, from all the pictures you posted I would figure out you were TS in seconds.  The people most likely to spot a TS is another TS, it is a simple rule of thumb.   You know what to look out for.  Most people are not looking to closely for these things and seeking out somebody who is TS, so they never catch on. If passing with TS is a mark of passing, than it is to high a standard, why? Because most TS can catch on to another TS, unless it is somebody who transitioned very young (18-21)

It is not that my threshold is necessarily lower for passability.  It is just I know what will pass in the general public most of the time, and on what levels that I do pass.  Also having the input of GG helps, something most TS simply lack, and become very self conscious as a result.  The other thing is I know the things that tip off most TS, frame and face, I do not have issues with, largely because I am deciding to transition under 30.  The most passable transsexual women I know in fact, wear wigs (they transitioned in their early thirties). Why are they the most passable, because the face is extremely feminine naturally, they have naturally feminine frame, and they transitioned fairly young. Basically they look like women in every other way.  When that is the case, when you don't need FFS and you have a small frame, well the wig is not going to be an issue.   If the only damage is that done by DHT, which is likely the case if you are in your twenties or early thirties, your chances of being read while wearing a wig, unless the wig is god awful, is significantly decreased.  Pure and simple.  It is something that younger TS whose only issue is their hair figure out pretty quickly. 

Most people do not know how to catch on whether you are wearing a wig or not if you know how to choose one.  It is something that you can catch onto only if you have that extra level of perception that comes from being TS.    Like I said if you are regularly spotted wearing a wig, you did not choose the right wig.  If you get clocked as TS wearing a wig, the issues you have go beyond just the wig, and there are other things that are giving away your TS status.  The wig is just part of what is getting the person clocked as TS, but there are generally speaking quite a few other things that generally give that person away, generally the person has a larger frame or their face is very masculine.  If you are younger TS with hair issues with a small frame and good face, you often just get seen as a girl wearing a wig if somebody does spot the wig, because everything else says female. The older TS do not have this advantage because there are other things that are giving them away.  There is a big difference between seen as a woman who is wearing a wig and being seen as a TS wearing a wig.  The younger TS is more than likely going to be seen as a woman wearing a wig if they have a good face and small frame.






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Dorothy

I feel beautiful but dont let that reflection in the mirror be my judge.  Sometimes Ive downed myself but I notice that when Im looking in the mirror instead of pointing out one bad thing, I point out every other good thing about me.


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Lori

Quote from: Katia on May 12, 2007, 03:44:36 PM
Quote from: Lori on May 10, 2007, 08:33:07 PM
No, last time I went out, men began clawing out their eyes and women were slipping in the juice from the leaking eyeballs clawed out by those desperate hands.

The sight of me will spawn legends and myths of a beast that terrorized a hapless town. A he/she/it thing that was so hideous to look at my entire blood line was sought out and destroyed so my ugliness could not infect the world.


My beauty inside has turned black and vile from those that have shunned me for not having any exterior beauty. I have taken that hatred and turned it in and absorbed it in such quantities that if it were to leak it out,  it would make a Paris Hilton.

Vanity is stupid, seriously. All women are vain to a point or there would be no cosmetics or heels. But to answer a thread such as this one would have to take either a sense of humor side or go to the other side and be mean.


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What I find beautiful may be ugly to somebody else. True beauty comes from within. This thread should be locked for stupidity.

Just because you look so good on the outside doesn't mean you are beautiful. Could mean you are just a pretty Bitch.




i'm only interested on what the topic of this thread asks. so i have crossed out the rubbish.  let's leave the crying and moaning for our therapists.  i dont want to hear it nor am i forcing anyone to post on this thread.  if you're not able to post constructive criticism on a thread, move on. plain and simple.  period.

Do you mean if someone is not able to take constructive criticism, I shouldn't reply to these type of threads? I made a bet with somebody this would turn into an FFS thread.....WHOAH...IT DID!!!I

Seems to me, making others jealous by calling them old, exploiting thier youth and shoving it down others throats has become quite popular here lately. Just remember everybody gets older. I took the humor side because threads like these hurt somebody somewhere. Beauty is subjective.

I am glad so many are starting out younger these days. But respect must be paid to those brave and BEAUTIFUL women that paved the road making it easier for young TS to walk down. Things in the 70's and 80's were NOT like they are today. It is much safer and easier to transition because of what they did for us. Fear of not being passable or beautiful has kept many in the closet and many will remain locked in those prisons feeling they are to old or unpassable.
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Renae.Lupini

Out of curiosity, why is surgery or medical enhancements the save all super answer to the problems in this world?
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Keira


Its only seen as a super solution because of the consequence of not passing in many places.
And also, lets face it because TS's like other women, face the same pressure to be beautiful that
feeds the plastic surgery industry. Until the 90's, only the idle rich did much plastic surgery, but now it has explosed and everybody's doing it, or at least considering it.

Even women in their 20's are getting bottoxed !!!! (bottox under 30 unless you've been living on the beach since you've been 13, is insane if you ask me).
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Wendy

Quote from: Lori on May 25, 2007, 07:13:54 AM
I am glad so many are starting out younger these days. But respect must be paid to those brave and BEAUTIFUL women that paved the road making it easier for young TS to walk down. Things in the 70's and 80's were NOT like they are today. It is much safer and easier to transition because of what they did for us. Fear of not being passable or beautiful has kept many in the closet and many will remain locked in those prisons feeling they are to old or unpassable.

Lori that thought is very beautiful.

...............................................

Each of us has to do what makes us feel comfortable.  We probably could pass with less if we had more confidence.  I think the American Idol winner, Jordan Sparks, is very pretty.  However she has wide hands and big shoulders and she still is very pretty!

If you need and can afford lots of surgery to make you feel comfortable that is absolutely fine!  ...And if you feel comfortable with little or no surgery that is fine too!  You need to find comfort within yourself.

Personally I have already made arrangements with individuals on the other side of this forum to swap bodies.   
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Renae.Lupini

Quote from: Keira on May 25, 2007, 08:55:13 AM

Its only seen as a super solution because of the consequence of not passing in many places.
And also, lets face it because TS's like other women, face the same pressure to be beautiful that
feeds the plastic surgery industry. Until the 90's, only the idle rich did much plastic surgery, but now it has explosed and everybody's doing it, or at least considering it.

Even women in their 20's are getting bottoxed !!!! (bottox under 30 unless you've been living on the beach since you've been 13, is insane if you ask me).


So IOW, it is merely a way to ensure we buy into the myth that beauty is what is broadcast to us through the media? I know hoards of women (TS and GG) who do not fit that profile but are still beautiful. They have confidence in who they are and that makes them shine to the rest of the world.

Try this sometime, go to a highly populated area like a mall or other public gathering place. Look at the facial features and outward appearances of the natural women. More often than not there is going to be something that looks a little more masculine than would be expected. the idea that any woman could ever live up to any standard of perfection set forth by our "I win, you lose" society is preposterous.

But instead of taking control of our own lives and finding comfort in who we are, we look to outside methods to make us feel better on the inside. I guess if surgical modifications are the way to go to find inner-peace these days then i am the oddball out.

I am not denouncing you as person for the choices you make. I am only offering my perspective on the situation.
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Keira


Renae (nice original name by the way),

While you say that many women have masculine features, etc
and that many of them are comfortalble about them (I do agree with that),

I don''t agree that all (or even most) of them would say no if you proposed to change those
features for the better (according to society's ideal of beauty) at no cost to
themselves (other than the  risk of surgery). Its very easy to ride a high horse when not financially capable to do the ops. That is the real test. A truly confident women would say, I don't want
it regardless if its given to her on a silver platter.

We live in society, and for thousands of years, beauty and youth has played a big role in all cultures; its not a recent media invention (although its gained more prominence lately). Ignoring this influence is basically stepping out of mainstream society and entering our own sub-circle of it; nothing wrong with that if we realize that our perspective is not universal. For those reasons, women are more insecure about their looks than you can imagine. I hear this all the time from every GG I've met; that it is good thing or not doesn't matter, its a fact.

Why should we, as a group, be more comfortable than GG's; that's asking too much I think considering our own insecurities.

I'm not knocking all those that cannot ever afford surgery, not every TS can, just like not every GG can. But, again, its not because you can't afford it that can't want it if you could (nobility of the cashless ;-) doesn't exist for me and right now, I'm one of those cashless as I owe 25K with very thin revenues).

Currently, I want a hair transplant to fix my temple area (small holes, about 450 grafts for 2000 dollars), although its easily hideable and many GG's have thinning hair and worse temple than me, but I don't have the money to do it right now. Is it vanity to want to do it? Maybe? But I don't care... and I'lll do it as soon as I've got the money (or a loan).
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Renae.Lupini

Quote from: Keira on May 25, 2007, 10:20:57 AM

Renae (nice original name by the way),


Let me explain my "nice original name" for you. unlike most people simply plucked a name out of thin air because it was cute, I actually did research on the meaning of names. The meaning of "Renae" in that spelling of it, means to be born again or start over. So I might have a name that other people but it does serve a purpose in my life.

TY for proving my point.
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seldom

Renae I completely understand where you are coming from.


It is true many GG are very critical of themselves, and there are many that are not.  There are many that are more apt to understand and pick up on these images and myth of beauty portrayed in the media and get to the point where they either ignore them or speak out against them.  It is a large part of third wave feminism. 

"I'm not knocking all those that cannot ever afford surgery, not every TS can, just like not every GG can."  Keira this statement is a little loaded because it comes from the perspective that it is a matter of affordibility, and that every TS or GG wants cosmetic surgery or needs it.  The reality is there are quite a few that do not want or need cosmetic surgery because we accept themselves for who we are in that respect.  This comes from the same dialog that existed in the TS community that every TS woman needs FFS, and those that were critics of the proceedure were just jealous and could not afford it.  The truth is, some of us have higher self acceptance and FFS is not always needed, and I think it is rarely if ever needed with younger TS, even though it is becoming increasingly common proceedure even for them.  There is a point in changing things to pass and sometimes FFS is needed to pass, but I do have my share of criticisms about the community and how the concept of FFS has gotten to this point where many in the community view it as a necessity for every TS woman. It comes from the idea that being a woman means having a beautiful face.   Sorry, its not for me, my issue is not with my face, but with my body.  While HRT will improve my face, I personally have no issue with it now that most of the facial hair is removed.  (My hair may be a different story, but gettin that fixed, if it can be fixed is not a matter of beauty). 

For the most part I agree with you Renae.  I personally come from a very similiar perspective on the issue.  While many use gender dysphoria as an explanation the truth is many are buying into the media and societal myth of beauty.  There needs to be an understanding that feminine beauty is something that can be very flexible and that greater self acceptance does not have to come from a knife.   
Also to be honest, not everybody is really after beauty, for some self acceptance is much more important, and that self acceptance does not have to come from being beautiful. 

Also I did not mean to really attack late transitioners on a previous post, but it was to make a point.  While a late transitioner may be spotted by everybody while wearing a wig, it is not the wig that is giving them away.  When transitioning so late in life it is often impossible to pass without FFS and the wig may just be part of the reason they can be spotted.  This is where I will flat out say FFS has been a miricle, those who are transitioning later in life it actually does give them an opportunity to pass.   For those of us who are fortunate enough to be transitioning at a fairly young age, that one little thing does not keep us from passing.  I did not mean to be insulting, but it is a reality many of us transitioning in our late twenties and early thirties have to face.  Passing in every other respect, but our hair, and wigs do make a huge difference.     
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