So we don't exist past 100 years then eh?

[Anatta]

wait...who is snowpaw?

Kia Ora Annah,

At first I thought you were being deeply philosophical with the "Who is Snowpaw ?"  But then I realised I had mistakenly  mixed up names, my apologies I meant "Shawn Sunshine"

Metta Zenda  

[Annah]

lol no worries

[Shawn Sunshine]

Oh wow, well no I am not SnowPaw , at least not in this lifetime

[Anatta]

Oh wow, well no I am not SnowPaw , at least not in this lifetime

Kia Ora Shawn,

Are you sure ? Are you prepared to take Zenda's  foolproof lie detector test ? 

Metta Zenda

[Shawn Sunshine]

I didn't fail the test, I just found 100 ways to do it wrong.
Benjamin Franklin

Yes of course there will be accountable but that accountability isn't eternity in some kind of fiery lake of hell. I stated Karma. If this person dies laughing to his grave then Karma will have him learn from this lesson.

So what is the punishment then? Come back to earth as a fly and eat poop? What would karma consider to be the punishment?

The saints are crying out for vengeance and I will glad on the day they get it. Hell is separation from God, not a fiery lake, its separation from Love itself.

Revelations 6:9

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered for the word of God and for the testimony they had given; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, "Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?" 11 They were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number would be complete both of their fellow servants[h] and of their brothers and sisters, who were soon to be killed as they themselves had been killed.

[Shawn Sunshine]

i get weirded out when someone stares at my profile for longer than 10 minutes...just saying

Who was doing that?

[Annah]

you


oh and if you think the saints cry out for vengeance and revenge then you missed entirely of Christ's teachings. I encourage you to read Matthew 5:39, Luke 6:29, Matthew 5:40 and the Beatitudes.

[Shawn Sunshine]

Oh, well I was looking at your pasts posts, you should not be weirded out at all.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The 2nd death is separation from God, that is the worst punishment i can imagine, to be in a dark void, with no love and no light.

[Anatta]

So what is the punishment then? Come back to earth as a fly and eat poop? What would karma consider to be the punishment?

The saints are crying out for vengeance and I will glad on the day they get it. Hell is separation from God, not a fiery lake, its separation from Love itself.

Kia Ora Shawn,

Karma according to Buddhist understanding is neither punishment nor reward ! It is  'non judgemental'  action that begets reaction which begets another action which in turn begets another reaction and so forth....>Cause>Condition>Effect>Cause>Condition>Effect>Cause>....

If you plant a pear seed you get [if the conditions are right] a pear tree...And if you plant a lemon seed, expecting to get a sweet pear tree, you will be sourly disappointed ...

Metta Zenda

[Annah]

Oh, well I was looking at your pasts posts, you should not be weirded out at all.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The 2nd death is separation from God, that is the worst punishment i can imagine, to be in a dark void, with no love and no light.

You're adding things to scripture. "For the ages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life" has utterly nothing to do with bad people going to hell.

The verse means we die because of our sin...it says nothing of a second death in that verse. Death is our corporeal death...not a second death.

Also, you have to stop adding things to scripture because when you do you'll go to hell:

Revelations 22:

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.


see, I can quote scripture too!

[Shawn Sunshine]

That makes no sense, we die a corporeal death regardless of whether we were good or bad. You know what the second death is, don't mince words.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11

Revelation 20:4-9 gives us the order of events to take place in the universe from the second coming of Christ till the destruction of the wicked. These two events are separated by the millennium; 1,000 years of peace, during which the righteous are in heaven with Christ. Only after this period is over will the wicked be dealt with. The apostle Peter states that "the heavens and the earth are now kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Peter 3:7.

There is a day of final reckoning. The second death will be a reality. But beyond that we can share the hope of Peter: "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2 Peter 3:13. How does God view the second death? He is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9.

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

Of course its not actual fire like lava, at least not from my understanding, like i said Its separation from God and his/her Love, that is the second death.

[Annah]

So a God whose love is unconditional will send people to hell if those people do not subscribe to an orthodox doctrine of God?

That's like saying a mother wouldn't rush into a burning house to save her daughter who was playing with matches.

[Shawn Sunshine]

There is absolution for those who are unable to hear the words of the God of the Holy Bible. All people , all places have to be accountable for how they live and treat one another.

That's like saying a mother wouldn't rush into a burning house to save her daughter who was playing with matches.

God has already saved me from a burning house. Then God showed me not to play with matches like that.

[spacial]

There is absolution for those who are unable to hear the words of the God of the Holy Bible. All people , all places have to be accountable for how they live and treat one another.

Where did you hear that?

[Constance]

For the wages of sin is death

I've always despised this verse. While I was in high school, I "lay with a man". So, I guess I get to burn, right? I have not and never will acknowledge that as a sin. It was consensual and loving. If "God is love," then any form of love cannot be sin. To assert as much would be blasphemous.

There is absolution for those who are unable to hear the words of the God of the Holy Bible. All people , all places have to be accountable for how they live and treat one another.

So, since I am a polytheistic Christo Pagan Buddhist who recognizes only the Gospels and discards the rest, I'm damned right? Fine. I'll see you in Summer Land.

[Sandy]

My youngest brother put a gun in his mouth, pulled the trigger, and splattered his head all over his living room wall.

Before the bullet finished homogenizing the contents of his brain pan, he was dead.  The intricate connections of synapse and neurons dissolved in the rapidly spinning lead and copper that infused his brain.

I admit to being spiritual, but from a practical viewpoint, we're just "wires in a box".

I have no memory of any previous existence.  I do not believe that in my previous life I was a woman.  Were that the case, then perhaps I should just wait this one out and wait for my next one so I can return to being a born woman.  Or perhaps upon my death, the all knowing, all seeing, all powerful, *whatever* will re-incorporate me into the body of a winged *female* angel.

If existence were "Life after life", then *this* life has little meaning, doesn't it?  After all there should have been thousands of lives prior to this one and thousands, or more, after this one.  Then this one hardly makes a difference.

Where do all the souls in life come from?  Are they being printed up somewhere?

We humans have an almost infinite ability to visit horror upon any other living thing.  There is rarely justice.  What justice was given to the 20 children killed in Newhope?  What justice could possibly be given them?  What punishment could possibly be sufficient to snuff out the life of an innocent *child*!

Is Adolph Hitler's punishment of being separated from gods love sufficient punishment for the brutalization and murder of six million human beings?  Hardly.

I have rambled, ranted and apologize to the sensitive on this list.  I really, really didn't want to get involved with this, but, my brothers death still hurts.  I will never be able to hold him and tell him that it is alright.  Or slap him because he did such a stupid thing.

I have turned the idea of karmic/cosmic/deistic justice over in my mind a million times and find it wanting.

There is no final adjudicator of right and wrong.

Just life.  In all its horrific and wonderful ways.

-Sandy

[peky]

Think my dear Shawn:


Where is the justice on Abraham marring his sister Sarah?

and just to think that we all decent from this incestuous relationship.

Is not s\said somewhere  Leviticus: "you shall not marry your sister"

So much for the word of G-d

[Shawn Sunshine]

I've always despised this verse. While I was in high school, I "lay with a man". So, I guess I get to burn, right? I have not and never will acknowledge that as a sin. It was consensual and loving. If "God is love," then any form of love cannot be sin. To assert as much would be blasphemous.
So, since I am a polytheistic Christo Pagan Buddhist who recognizes only the Gospels and discards the rest, I'm damned right? Fine. I'll see you in Summer Land.

Who said you were damned? For instance the Native American Tribes , had knowledge of "The Great Spirit" or Creator , and according to how they lived , whether bad or good , was the only way they could be judged. But a loving God would not reject them just because they had not heard from the books of the bible.

But once you are aware of Jesus, and then deny him before men, Jesus will deny you before the Father.

[Constance]

But once you are aware of Jesus, and then deny him before men, Jesus will deny you before the Father.

Good thing my Father is Perkunas then.

[Shawn Sunshine]

I'm kinda partial to Thor myself. At least he has a movie about him. 



But all kidding aside let's get back to the topic on hand, which really was about how it would really suck if there was no afterlife.