Only One to Two Thousand American Women Have SRS Each Year?

[melissa90299]

According to Newsweek, this seems awfully low, then again, I have met a lot of transwomen in my time in San Francisco and only remember a couple who are post-op.

Of course, if true, this makes becoming a post-op transwoman even sweeter as the club seems to be pretty exclusive.

[cindianna_jones]

Exclusive?  hehehe.  That's funny. And club no less?  You are funny Melissa.

How are we all that different just cause we have a surgical procedure?  I mean, sure... it means a lot to us individually.  But to the external world and especially our friends, I'm not sure that it makes a huge difference.

Still, I'm sure the numbers are extremely low.  I'd guess that there are fewer than a thousand GRS surgeries performed each year.  There aren't that many surgeons doing it.

Does anybody know how many ops each surgeon does each year?  Biber in his hey day would do three a week.

Cindi

[melissa90299]

Exclusive?  hehehe.  That's funny. And club no less?  You are funny Melissa.

How are we all that different just cause we have a surgical procedure?  I mean, sure... it means a lot to us individually.  But to the external world and especially our friends, I'm not sure that it makes a huge difference.


Cindi

No difference? Between having a penis and a vagina? I mean, without it, what's the point. And the fact that you know you have one gives you a lot of power, that patch down there has been called the most valuable piece of real estate in the world.


I plan to let most of my friends (women) see mine. For me, it's going to be a HUGE difference since I am a lesbian, hard to be a full-fledged lesbian without a vagina. Also, it's going to make a big difference in the locker room.

[cindianna_jones]

Well, Melissa, I know how much it meant to me and it apparently is just as important to you as well.  It did give me a whole lot of self confidence.  But there's this carefully guarded secret hon... (there's no club). Shhh... don't tell anyone!

Cindi

[Thundra]

I plan to let most of my friends (women) see mine. For me, it's going to be a HUGE difference since I am a lesbian, hard to be a full-fledged lesbian without a vagina. Also, it's going to make a big difference in the locker room.

I assume that you are going to wait until they ask, or until you are in a social situation where nudity is acceptable? Say a hottube, or community shower, a play party, or even skinny dipping. As a long time lesbian, I can tell you the last thing I would want is for some woman to come running up to me to flash her crotch at me. I think what you mean is that you are not going to hide your anatomy anymore, yes?

[melissa90299]

I plan to let most of my friends (women) see mine. For me, it's going to be a HUGE difference since I am a lesbian, hard to be a full-fledged lesbian without a vagina. Also, it's going to make a big difference in the locker room.

As a long time lesbian, I can tell you the last thing I would want is for some woman to come running up to me to flash her crotch at me.

Have you ever had a woman run up and flash her crotch at you?

[ellen b]

I need, don't just want an orchiectomy.

I'm in New Mexico.

Please help if you have any info.

Thanks

[seldom]

edit: Deleted for my misinterpretation of the title line.

[Thundra]

I would not have raised the point otherwise. Some people, in a celebratory mood I suppose, sometimes feel the need to share their joy with the world at large. But that is a little too friendly for me. Like I mentioned in the post, if it happened in the context of a specific social setting where full on female nudity is not an issue, no problem! But dragging friends into the bar bathroom for a viewing is a bit much for me. That is all.

[cindianna_jones]

I recall that Melissa goes to work out regularly.  So I completely understand where she is coming from.  BTW, I'm still extremely shy in public gyms and showers.  I try to find private facilities whenever possible.  This is a hang up I still have.  Shame on Cindi.

Cindi

[Thundra]

I think the number is very very low.  I would believe 1 in 20 or 1 in 200, but 1 in 2000 seems very very far fetched.  Its expensive, but not THAT expensive. 

Doesn't that depend on your vocation, and education level? I personally know at least a dozen women where I live, right now, that would go for surgery if they could afford to. Even if they went to Thailand, the cheapest prices I've ever heard were in the 5K range. Add in airline flights, food and lodging and you probably need at least, what? 8K for the trip? A lot of people I have known all over the US can barely pay their rent.

Lots of guys have resorted to fundraisers just to get top surgery, usually at a lesbo bar, and that is cheap in comparison to what the women have to come up with for bottom surgery. Believe me, on a women's wages, 8K is a LOT of money! It would take me years to save that kind of cash, and only if I had no other bills to pay. I have a lot of respect for all of these kids that have the discipline to save up their money for whatever kind of surgery.

Most of the really young guys and gals that I have known to have transitioned right out of high school to surgery, had their families to pay for it. Otherwise, they suffer and save for years if not a decade or longer sometimes, to get enough money. And every year that goes by brings price increases.

I am thinking that one in 1000 or more women going for bottom surgery is probably accurate.
Probably quite a bit little lower for guys getting top surgery, say one in 200?

[cindianna_jones]

Yes, I'm sure that it is very rare indeed.  We can see some inkling just here in the forum. Many of us struggle just to pay the basic bills. GRS seems like a quest for the holy grail for most of us.

Cindi

[katia]

that sounds about right since only true transsexuals will seek grs.

[Keira]

Not quite sure what is meant by "women's wage". If you take into account that women entered the job market in big numbers later, work less hours and less dangerous jobs and traditionally had less education, the wage difference between men and women is not a lot. Any systemic gaps that remain are rapidly being close in the younger generation if a women does the SAME work as a men.

Most of graduating doctors are female (in Canada) and 60% of university graduate are female. There's only a few choice areas were female have not really invested in great numbers yet. As for low female wages, I've got 8 female cousins (from 25-34 y old) that all went to university and not one of them makes less than 50K, 2 make more 100K! My own sister's only 7 years out of university and making 80K

If your talking about the educated, getting the money for SRS shouldn't be an issue. The bank gave me a 22K line of credit and I had 9K credit on my credit card only 2 years out of university when I was making 50K.  If your able to get credit, and are to live with the consequence of it, paying for SRS should not be an issue.

If your saying that most TS are not educated, or because of TS issues, so messed up, that they end up doing menial work; I am not sure that this is really substantiated, though I'm sure there's quite a few TS ekking a living (especially young ones kicked out by their parents).

My opinion is that the average wage in the US, male or female, should be enough, to eventually get you enough credit to get SRS if you really want it. Of course, if you destroy your credit rating through various means... It could be more difficult.

[cindianna_jones]

Keira,

I hope you never work for a company that has a good ole boys network or a glass ceiling!  Yes times are changing for the better.  I always encourage everyone to go to college. Life is expensive... and that doesn't figure in all the additional crap that we get to pay for.  It's very difficult to get a good paying job without the sheepskin.

GRS doesn't cost more than a new car and most of us somehow manage to fanagle a new car at least once in our lives.

But I believe that the numbers of transsexuals are pumped up a bit.  I think that we are much rarer than what is commonly thought.  That's with and without surgery.  And I have nothing to back up my opinion! 

Cindi

[seldom]

I completely misread the title line.  Yeah...the number is believable, there are just not that many doctors performing it in the world.  With that being said, with how few TS there are, 1000 to 2000 surgeries performed each year does not sound off base.  For example, the DC area is said to have close to a few thousand TS (both FtM and MtF).  The DC metro area is the fourth largest in North America. 

As far as wage standards.  Canada is a completely different country as far as these issues.  It is generally speaking ahead of the curve with regards to income equality. 

The US college admission rates are very similar to Canada.  I think in ten years the effects of fewer men in college will be seen, and in my opinion it will not be a bad thing. 

But speaking about TS women, very few do well.  Its not a womens wage, its the general problem TS women face.  Job discrimination and coupled with career paths that are not focused so much on educational qualifications.  Less than 1/3 of TS women are in good paying jobs, and that 1/3 are highly educated in careers where they are more likely to be in a supportive work environment (I have to admit I fall into both of these being a research analyst with a JD at a progressive nonprofit, and trust me this was all planned out.  I wanted a job which was both spiritually fulfilling, and where I could transition if needed).  There is a Virginia study on the what trans people face as far as job challenges.  I am fortunate this is not going to be an issue with me. 


Its not a womens wage issue, it is a job discrimination issue.   

[Thundra]

Its not a womens wage issue, it is a job discrimination issue.   

I respect your POV, but I totally disagree wth you. Most TS women simply fall into the same pay category as most other women without degree's, like myself. Sure, I have friends that are independently wealthy, but they are the minority. Most women with lots of money usually either have a master's degree or better, come from a family of means, or had a parrtner, usually male, that allowed them to improve their standard of living. If you look at most people filling low wage jobs, most of them (us) are women. And have you heard of the glass ceiling?
Women are almost always passed over in favor of a man applying for the same position.

Unlike any of you, I have never seen more than 25K in a given earnings year. I can tell you this much. If most TS women had to depend on the wage they would earn from the getgo to save up enough money for their surgery, the ratio of transitioning to surgery would be much lower than the numbers quoted here. Probably more like one in 5000 or more.

Sure, the wage gap between men and women is narrowing, especially for younger women with a higher education, but for the rest of us, that is not usually the case. Just the way it is, and always has been. Maybe Canada is different, but I don't know anybody with a line of credit up to 20K without borrowing against a house or other valuables.

Just look around the world. The majority of poor people are women, not men. And since it is the women charged with taking care of the children in most cases, the children suffer the consequences of the inequity. I hope that someday all the women here can have a wage equal to that of men, but I doubt that I will live long enough to see it.

If you truly believe that women make as much as men for doing the same work, than obviously, you have never suffered from wage discrimination like most women. I hope that you never do. Go and be young and happy.

[cindianna_jones]

So, the lesson is to get an education, right? 

I came from a lower class family.  I paid my own way through college and worked my butt off. I am not wealthy. But I ain't gonna work if I don't want to!

Cindi

[Thundra]

If you worked your way thru college, than I bet you are familiar with rice and beans, and ramen noodles, and cheese sandwiches, hmmm? Every person that I know that worked their way through college suffered a lot for what they earned. And some still don't make much more than me. I have already made peace with the fact I will work until I die.

[Keira]

While I respect your point of view Thundra,

I do think It skews  your opinion mightely on this.

The role of women in society has changed much in the last 40 years and that alone introduces much distorsion in salary that is not part of systemic discrimination.

Women used to be less educated, they entered the workforce in great numbers after the 60's (so they've got less experience), had many children at an earlier age and it wasn't well seen to leave them at home to got to work; they tended to gravitate to white colar jobs, which traditionally were less paid than dirtier, physically harder jobs (there were hiring discrimation for these jobs, but mostly women stayed away on their own).

Also, even today many woman have a different view on the roles of careers, they often seek a better balance, in their lives (even in educated women these days) and thus tend to work less hours, less dangerous jobs, work less night shifts, and work more part-time jobs. Are woman's own choices an internalized form a discrimation? Should they be just like men and work 60 hours?

All of this coupled by the fact that it takes time for a changing of the guard to trickle upward in companies, makes the salary less a result of systemic discrimation, and more a result of a historical and current cultural influences.

Even in education, things are changing, women have moved away from liberal arts degrees which used to be their staples to more lucrative science, engineering and business degrees.

In the young newly graduating women I'd wager that the difference in salary accross the board for a similar number of hours worked in similar jobs is slight at worse.

You can say that its not fair that they've got this advantage over older women who carry within their career path the previous cultural bias; but times changes and hopefully, its always for the better.

As I said, I don't doubt that TS's who are disowned by their parents and kicked out at a young age suffer greatly cause they've got little education and got to fend on their own. But does that experience correspond to the experience of most TS's? While we don't have a census to confirm it; I would not be surprised that these days it does not.