Gays fling out cross-dressers

[Suzy]

Channel 24 News, South Africa

Cape Town - Cross-dressers and transvestites have been banned from membership of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance, the organisation announced on Wednesday.  The decision, taken by the organisation's national executive, had resulted in the expulsion of two members of the board.

[Hazumu]

This sort of thing has already happened in River City, with the renaming of the Lambda Center to the Sacramento Gay and Lesbian Center.  I guess we trannies just don't count any more...

Karen

[Thundra]

This sort of thing has already happened in River City, with the renaming of the Lambda Center to the Sacramento Gay and Lesbian Center.  I guess we trannies just don't count any more...

I don't think it is that at all Karen. I think it is a reaction to some people from the "T" community vociferously objecting to being identified with anything Gay or Lesbian, or queer in general. Most of the people that post here identify as str8, not queer. So, queers just figure that you cannot have it both ways. Traditionally, gays and lesbians always provided a safe haven for the "T" population, but lately, you just don't see much support for many queer causes in the "T" population. And why should you, really? Once people transtion, they disappear into the str8 population. They are two seperate groups.

[cindianna_jones]

I find it disturbing.  We all are part of this struggle for equal rights.  Look what's happening to our "agenda"! 

Cindi

[RebeccaFog]

   Sexuality should not be an issue. All of the 'out of the norm' groups should be unified and working towards the same goals. Just because a person is Gay, it doesn't mean that the children they have  won't turn out to be Transpeople and vice versa.
    We are all the children of Earth.

[Hazumu]

When I meet someone who is 'G' or 'L', I remind them that we (GLBT(IQ)) have 'common cause'.  Those are the words I use -- 'Common Cause'.

I assume I won't pass.  The only thing I can do is to try to work to gain acceptance the way I am.

Maybe if I become passable, I might begin to think otherwise.

But lately, a lot of formerly stealth T-women are showing up in forums like this, and at our little TG social group in River City.  Maybe if we keep pushing, we can reach a tipping point...

I think that acceptance of TG/TS can be the key to gaining acceptance for all non-standard individuals -- the 'G's and the 'L's and the 'B's and the 'I's and the 'Q's.  If general society comes to tolerate (or better) us 'T's, it will be a lot easier for general society to overcome the shudder factor when confronted by a loving, caring, sexually intimate marriage (or 'marriage', if that's how it has to be) between Adam and Steve and their two kids John and Wendy, or Amber and Heather, who raise and nurture William, Phoenix and Thor.

There's some momentum right now, and it scares the bigots spitless.  Moreso, when the bigots find out we're ALL born the way we are.

Karen

[Thundra]

Well, I hope that you are right. Like I always say, we are all more alike than we are different. 

[gennee]

That's really a shame. We have a lot more in common than we think.

Gennee


I look at it this way. I understand what transgenders have to go through. Here in New York City, there was nothing for transgenders at the community center until about five or six years ago. Even now transgenders are not always received with open arms. I am transgender and a transvestite.

One thing I have tried to do is to understand each community and where they are coming from. In the trans community, I understand that crossdressers may have different needs and issues compared to the transsexual or genderqueer, but we suffer the same bigotry. I don't always agree with some things, but everybody is entitled to their opinion. That is something that I WILL defend-a person's right to their own opinion.   

I can't speak for everyone, but while I love to dress up and go out in public, I see the greater need for visibility and education. As a transvestite, I'm still learning much about it having discovered my own transvestism and ->-bleeped-<- only two years ago. If crossdressers and transgenders wish to be under a different umbrella, I do see what they are striving for. At the same time, I see possibly a lost opportunity for gays and lesbians to understand who we are and why we are what we are. To me, this is more important than what outfit I'm going to wear.

That's just one transvestite's opinion.

Gennee   

[ShyGothGirl]

That's sad... you know, being transgendered and a bisexual... guess (to them at least) I don't count as a bisexual cuz I am trans...

We should be building bridges, not walls.

[gina_taylor]

Hey Gennee, very interesting reply to this post. I've been in some gay places, and fortunately nothing has happened. That's an interesting point that you've made shy goth girl. I consider myself to be bisexual, because I do like men and woamn, and even though I am a trans, it's alright to be bisexual as well.

Gina 

[RebeccaFog]

I have TB too!  (transGender Bisexuality).

Maybe the 3 of us can get together sometime and have an evening out as 3 couples  . It would be a very expensive evening  .  Actually, since the 3 of us identify as female, I guess it means there'd be no males.  


*I'm joking, of course. Just having fun.

[ShyGothGirl]

I have TB too!  (transGender Bisexuality).

Maybe the 3 of us can get together sometime and have an evening out as 3 couples  . It would be a very expensive evening  .  Actually, since the 3 of us identify as female, I guess it means there'd be no males.  


*I'm joking, of course. Just having fun.

LOL! That's funny... but I think it would be fun to just go out with a few other trans girls (or just anyone, LOL.... I don't get out much these days)... and it'd be okay, I'm sure the 3 of us would have no problem finding guys....

*winks* Yes, I am a horrible flirt, don't encourage me... LOL

*hugs n gigglez*

[Sandy]

As everyone here knows, gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things.

Before I started my transition I felt that I was a lesbian.  I had always liked girls and I thought that wouldn't change.  I was a little concerned about having to come out twice.  Once as a transsexual and once as a lesbian.

Now that I am completely out, I find that while I still like to look at women, my feelings toward them seem to be changing.  And their attitude toward me are changing as well.  We don't relate the way I remember.  I feel a bond with women that I never did before.  Also there is none of that under tone of sexual tension that used to pervade every male-female relationship I had.

Men relate to me differently now.  And now *I* am on the receiving end of the sexual under tone.  And I am finding that relationships with a few of the men I knew before I transitioned are becoming more, shall we say, traditional?  I'm not sure I like that in all cases.  I did not drop 20 IQ points in my transition!  Even if I did I'd still be ahead of them...

Anyway what I was getting at was that I don't know what orientation I will be going forward when I feel ready to have relationships again.  I may be a traditional heterosexual woman or a lesbian.  I truly don't know.

So to have the support of the Gay and Lesbian community gives me sanctuary while I have my gender and sexual orientation in the mix-master.  I do know that I find acceptance in that community much more readily than in any other community.  We accept each other as who we are.  That is the important part!

I feel that we should be sticking together much more than we should be splitting apart.

-Sandy (I'm the "T" in LGBT and proud of it!)

[Lisbeth]

That's sad... you know, being transgendered and a bisexual... guess (to them at least) I don't count as a bisexual cuz I am trans...

Well, in general, people who don't accept Ts don't accept Bs either.  They prefer to think of us bisexuals as "gays in denial."

[ShyGothGirl]

Well, to me that's just pure silliness...

I don't really prefer one sex over the other, and have had just as many successful relationships with women as I have with men. I love a person for who they are, not what they have between their legs.

I have been engaged to a woman, who is still my best friend today. And now I am currently engaged to a wonderful man. 'nuff said? lol

[RebeccaFog]

   I've been fortunate. I found a support group here that is an LBT women's group. They accept me as a T and a B.

   No Men need apply. I think FTM's would be welcome too though because they fit to a T.  (get it?)

   I don't think it's sexist because we also have a mens group in town for Gay men. I don't know enough to say they would accept TransMen, but I think they would.

Just my experiences

[Lisbeth]

This sort of thing has already happened in River City, with the renaming of the Lambda Center to the Sacramento Gay and Lesbian Center.  I guess we trannies just don't count any more...

That sort of thing isn't happening in our community.  I guess Minnesota is more liberal.  I think it's related to being the first state to include Ts in an equal employment law back last century.

[Rachael]

im a bi girl, and thats about it, i hve just fought to get T added to my students unions LGB group
and some wanted LGB & T, and i sort of agree now
i dont think they should be lumped
but i certainly dont think they should be cut off,
i do feel TV/CD and TS and more serious dysphoria conditions should be separate, if only for greater and easier understanding of a medical problem.

[gina_taylor]

Hey Rebecca, that was funny, but I'd be game for it.

As everyone here knows, gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things.

Before I started my transition I felt that I was a lesbian.  I had always liked girls and I thought that wouldn't change.  I was a little concerned about having to come out twice.  Once as a transsexual and once as a lesbian.

Now that I am completely out, I find that while I still like to look at women, my feelings toward them seem to be changing.  And their attitude toward me are changing as well.  We don't relate the way I remember.  I feel a bond with women that I never did before.  Also there is none of that under tone of sexual tension that used to pervade every male-female relationship I had.

Very good points here, Kassandra. I had discussed the differences with my social worker, and at least we were both on the same page. Like yourself, I have had those feelings as well, and I find that I do get a long better with woman than I do with men. Forgive me for asking, but when you say that you're out, does that men that you're out a sa CD or a TS and are living 24/7?

Gina 

[Lisbeth]

im a bi girl, and thats about it, i hve just fought to get T added to my students unions LGB group and some wanted LGB & T, and i sort of agree now
i dont think they should be lumped but i certainly dont think they should be cut off,i do feel TV/CD and TS and more serious dysphoria conditions should be separate, if only for greater and easier understanding of a medical problem.

I have noticed that some people in Canada say, "GLBTT" (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transsexual, and Transgender).  They do it that way to specifically include CDs.