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FTM,MFT, Husbands and Wives, Abortion and questions.

Started by Shawn Sunshine, January 06, 2013, 02:40:44 PM

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Shawn Sunshine

QuoteI have a cousin who has gotten pregnant and had an abortion 9 times that I know of....yes 9! To me this is just irresponsible.

Yeah that is very irresponsible, there are all sorts of ways to not get pregnant.

Thanks for your kind words spring

QuoteChildren don't ask to be here

Well, I dunno but i am glad that I am here now.
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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Elspeth

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 04:05:30 PM
Well I found yet another flip side, that is where a doctor demands a receptionist to have an abortion.


http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/08/21/doctor-tells-his-receptionist-to-have-abortion-because-it-isnt/


There's a lot of he-said-she-said in that story. I'd be very skeptical about believing the plaintiff's claims, though I can't be sure they are false. The story itself, though, raises a lot of doubts about how credible her story is.

Stories like this would be much more credible if any of them made it to an actual trial. This one is clearly not one of those. But I'll eat crow (not my own child, Crow, however) if this one gets to court.

I sympathize with how much hurt there can be in these stories for those of us who would have loved to be able to become pregnant and take a child to term. But many stories like these seem to be some sort of toxic combination of anti-abortion fantasies and desperate teenagers looking for a way to cope with a terrible economy.
"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."
- Sonmi-451 in Cloud Atlas
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Ani

Just wondering what's an MFT?

Male Female Transmogrifier?

::)

-Ani
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aleon515

But *really* this is not a question about abortion. This is a question of a parents verbal abuse of her children. Don't stick around this person. This person is hurtful and angry. It will spill out on you.

Abortion is very controversial and there are many viewpoints even here on susan's. But I don't think anyone would deny that this is abusive behavior.

--Jay
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Constance

Quote from: aleon515 on January 06, 2013, 09:29:07 PM
But *really* this is not a question about abortion. This is a question of a parents verbal abuse of her children. Don't stick around this person. This person is hurtful and angry. It will spill out on you.

Abortion is very controversial and there are many viewpoints even here on susan's. But I don't think anyone would deny that this is abusive behavior.

--Jay
Good point. Thank you for that reminder, Jay.

Shawn Sunshine

Quote from: Ani on January 06, 2013, 09:25:42 PM
Just wondering what's an MFT?

Male Female Transmogrifier?

::)

-Ani


Oops, darn my temporary dyslexia  :o
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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Nero

Quote from: aleon515 on January 06, 2013, 09:29:07 PM
But *really* this is not a question about abortion. This is a question of a parents verbal abuse of her children. Don't stick around this person. This person is hurtful and angry. It will spill out on you.

Abortion is very controversial and there are many viewpoints even here on susan's. But I don't think anyone would deny that this is abusive behavior.

--Jay

I agree.

@Shawn Sunshine

I'm very sorry to hear that your mother subjects you to such cruel verbal abuse. Clearly, abortion is a sensitive subject for you with good reason.

As a man with a womb, I'm very glad that the choice is available god forbid I ever need it.
And as man with siblings who are rape survivors, I'm also very glad the choice was available if they had needed it for such a horrible reason.

I've seen the so-called stats that less than 1% of abortions are result of rape. Or whatever the stat is. I'm not sure they can possibly know that given the very large number of rapes that go unreported and unprosecuted. If she (or he in the case of ftm) did not report the rape, why would he or she give it as the reason for the abortion?

Regardless, people with wombs have the right to control them.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Shawn Sunshine

I have total sympathy for those who were raped or had incest happen to them. (I have been raped myself when I was at the boys ranch) I have no problem protecting the health of the mother. If you feel like you would not be a good mother and are not ready or can't afford it, I would suggest adoption 1st, but would not be upset over it. I have no problem with someone having an abortion for these reasons.

I still have a problem with it though if its just because its not convenient. If you have the money and the time and you have a loving partner, and you were having unprotected sex, knowing that you wanted to get pregnant and then change your mind halfway through, i can't agree with it at that point.
I also have a problem with "not" telling your partner about it before you do it. My youngest brothers x-wife did this to him. He found out much later.
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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Nero

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 07, 2013, 01:04:47 AM
I also have a problem with "not" telling your partner about it before you do it. My youngest brothers x-wife did this to him. He found out much later.

That is a sad situation. There are really no easy solutions.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Cindy

here are no easy answers for incredibly difficult questions.

Shawn, I really feel for you being subjected to such abuse by your Mum, no matter what her personal problems are.

My personal opinion is that it is the person carrying the foetus to decide on the outcome. Yes I think there is a prerogative to tell the male, if the male is in a relationship with the pregnant person, but I'm not sure at all at what point the father has a choice in the decision. I'm not being deliberately wimpy about that. If the relationship is long term and loving then that would seemt to be a situation where the choice has to be decided mutually. If the relationship is casual well? If it is rape, incest etc then them male should be castrated and forced to eat his genitals. The decision on the pregnancy is purely up to the victim and either decision is equally correct.

The comment from Arch in regards to the abortion clinic and the Catholic girls deciding to have one sin rather than many, is part of the awful problem.
Why do religions ban contraception? In my view it can only be for stupid or evil reasons; and I cannot really get myself to believe that the heads of those churches are consciously evil. No matter my utter disregard for them.

The argument that contraception is pre-abortion appears facetious and based on dogma rather than logic. Yet I don't recall any of the religious proponents of this belief providing biblical links. I cannot comment on Islam etc as I have not read any of their religious books.

Rape has been used as a weapon of war forever. Recent conflicts in places such as the ex-Yugoslavia typified this, rape was used as a weapon forcing woman from different ethnic groups to bear children sired by rapists from another. This would lead to them being outcasts and for their societies to crumble.

It is by no means new of course, the English practiced it in a particular foul way when trying to conquer Scotland and Northern Island in the 1700's onwards.

So if we acknowledge that rape is forcing woman to carry a child that will not only ruin her social life (in the correct meaning of that word) but as a means of war and destruction of society then I feel we have to regard pregnancy in a different light.

Who owns the child? The sire or the mother?

OK we can say that my examples are relatively simple. A woman is horribly abused and her forced pregnancy should be allowed to be terminated if she wishes,  except it is against her societies religious belief. She is damned either way.

Naturally it is no fault of the foetus and  we all need to acknowledge, support and love the child born from such horror and of course the mother. But does her society?

Mine will; but I seem to stand alone on top of a hill a lot of the time.

Sadly answers to complex questions are very difficult to deal with in a logical manner by many people. I'll pick on the USA, where it seems the right answer is from the group who shout the loudest.
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FTMDiaries

Speaking as somebody who has been pregnant twice and who seriously considered a late-term abortion of one of those pregnancies... it absolutely has to be the choice of the pregnant person to decide whether they wish to continue with a pregnancy. The reason for this is that pregnancy and childbirth are incredibly dangerous, painful and potentially traumatic things to go through, and nobody should have a right to demand that someone else should put their life at risk. That includes not forcing someone to go through pregnancy and childbirth just to give the baby away for adoption because that would somehow be 'better'. It isn't - that could be much more traumatic (and dangerous) than having an abortion. Like abortion, childbirth is not to be taken lightly.

The rights of the actual, living person who is pregnant should and must supercede any rights that a potential, unborn person may have (they don't have any rights, by the way - you're not considered a person until you've survived birth). And anyone who has ever cared for a newborn will tell you that their cognitive functions are nowhere near what you may consider to be distinctly 'human' - I would go so far as to say they're not recognisably 'human' (in terms of cognitive functions) until they're about 3 months old.

Most of the opposition to abortion comes from religious quarters. It still surprises me how pervasive religion is in certain parts of the world, to the extent that it affects public policy. And those religious leaders speak out against abortion for one reason and one reason only: bums on seats. They know that the best way to indoctrinate someone into religion is to do it when they're young because you're unlikely to believe their story if you first come across it as an adult. They depend on their followers producing children (who they indoctrinate) so that they can keep all that lovely cash rolling in for yet another generation. Any potential child aborted by their followers (or prevented via contraception) is a financial loss to them. That's also the reason why they tend to oppose same-sex marriage (less likelihood of children); and why the Catholic church forbids its priests & nuns from marrying or having children (so that nobody can inherit their property - it gets left to the church instead). It's all about the money.

Some people do use abortion as a routine form of birth control (particularly here in the UK) and I believe that is irresponsible in the extreme, particularly since birth control can be obtained free of charge. But that is the price of free choice: you have to accept that stupid people will be free to make stupid choices. The only solution to that is education.

Your mother is indeed abusive, as was mine. I'd never say something like that to my children, but my mother said it to me (I responded with "I wish you had, too!"). You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.





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Nero

Quote from: FTMDiaries on January 07, 2013, 05:50:11 AM
That includes not forcing someone to go through pregnancy and childbirth just to give the baby away for adoption because that would somehow be 'better'.

This.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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spacial

Shawn.

You can argue, discuss, analyses and twist this matter till the cows come home, but it will continue to affect you adversely until you as yourself why she said it. Then deal with that.

As it stands you're trying to start the abortion debate and sadly, there is no resolution to that.
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Annah

Quote from: spacial on January 07, 2013, 06:18:21 AM
Shawn.

You can argue, discuss, analyses and twist this matter till the cows come home, but it will continue to affect you adversely until you as yourself why she said it. Then deal with that.

As it stands you're trying to start the abortion debate and sadly, there is no resolution to that.

when it comes to abuse you sometimes may never know why the abusers say or do what they did.
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Shawn Sunshine

Quote from: spacial on January 07, 2013, 06:18:21 AM
Shawn.

You can argue, discuss, analyses and twist this matter till the cows come home, but it will continue to affect you adversely until you as yourself why she said it. Then deal with that.

As it stands you're trying to start the abortion debate and sadly, there is no resolution to that.

I have already tried to ask her why she says this. I just get an apology and then later on it gets brought up again. But my moms abusive behavior does affect how I see abortion.

I'm all for peoples rights, but I am not really pro life or pro choice, I am deciding to stick with elements of both sides.
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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spacial

I didn't make that very clear. I suggesting to you, for you to ask yourself. Your own perspective.

The problem of living with people with these sort of personalities, (for want of a better word), is they tend to grind you down.

You are in your 30s now, why are you still around?

I'm not arguing with your views. I disagree with everyone, including myself. Your views are your own concern as are your reasons.

But why do you stay?
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Shawn Sunshine

I actually left Texas a while ago, i only came back here because I wanted to meet my biological dad and see my aunts and uncles again and cousins etc. I was born here and I came back in 2004, but I am going to Oakland by October of this year.

I don't live with my mom but she is 9 miles from me. She moved back here to see her children and sisters/brothers (my younger brother and I)

I love my mom, and yet some days I don't like her at all.

Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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Arch

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 07, 2013, 01:04:47 AM
I still have a problem with it though if its just because its not convenient. If you have the money and the time and you have a loving partner, and you were having unprotected sex, knowing that you wanted to get pregnant and then change your mind halfway through, i can't agree with it at that point.

People are going to do what they're going to do. Are you proposing that people self-regulate and not seek abortion under such circumstances? That's not going to happen. Are you proposing that people's access to abortion be regulated according to their situations? That's not going to happen, either. Why are other people's motives for abortion such a big issue for you?
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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spacial

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 07, 2013, 11:58:46 AM
I actually left Texas a while ago, i only came back here because I wanted to meet my biological dad and see my aunts and uncles again and cousins etc. I was born here and I came back in 2004, but I am going to Oakland by October of this year.

I don't live with my mom but she is 9 miles from me. She moved back here to see her children and sisters/brothers (my younger brother and I)

I love my mom, and yet some days I don't like her at all.

OK. You moved away but couldn't bear to be away

So would you say you chose to continue this relationship with your mother?
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~RoadToTrista~

Have you ever read about those people who survived their abortions as babies back in the 70's? That sends chills down my spine, bleh. >.<

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