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FTM,MFT, Husbands and Wives, Abortion and questions.

Started by Shawn Sunshine, January 06, 2013, 02:40:44 PM

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Shawn Sunshine

Ok let me start out by saying that my mom has told me and my brother many many times she wishes that we had been aborted, that our existence ruined her life and she constantly blames us for her lack of success. This hurts me more than you might know. I am supposed to exist here on earth and I have value and a purpose. This is why I still don't understand why women are so quick to have an abortion.

As it stands now from what I have gathered, men don't have any say so on whether they get to keep the baby or not. In the case of ftm it still would be up to them right? Whoever is having the baby , it's totally there choice right? So what about mtf? They want a baby but are seen as a woman, however the woman they are with wants an abortion, and so on and so forth.

Is it simply just whoever is carrying the baby then? However I still do not like the idea of an abortion unless there is no other choice. If you are having an abortion , because you simply just don't want a child or it gets in the way of your career, I would consider 1st to give up the child for adoption. But what if a unborn baby is just like a wart? I saw a movie called Sarah's Choice that said "You wouldn't let a wart control your life would you?"

Another thing is, when is it actually murder to end a baby's life? I had always seen it as being from conception, but I would like to know how you all feel about it. I mean we send mom's and dad's who kill baby's after they are just born to jail.

I realize this is a touchy subject but I would think that with the birth control and condoms and other methods to prevent birth that is out there, you would wonder why there are so many abortions.

I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with their body, but you have to see the flip side of all this, how would you feel if your parents told you that you should have been aborted. So let me hear your thoughts, please lets keep it a civil discussion as well.
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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Annah

I am a pro choice person. It's just who I am.

While I am a pro choice person, I would never tell a child I wished I had aborted her/him. That's awful. That isn't about pro choice or pro life...that's just someone who sounds very bitter.
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aleon515

I believe you are being treated abusively. I don't know about abortion per se. IMO, that's between a woman and their doctor. OTOH, your experience is not really about abortion, it is about your mother's verbal abuse saying she wishes you didn't exist over and over again. I don't know how old you are, but I would not put up with it. If you are in a position to move out, I would or get yourself in that position. You don't need that kind of toxin in your life.

I am sure there are many parents that did struggle with this question at one time or other and if they are parents opted to have the child. If they have these thoughts I think they need to shut up about them. It's inexcusable with your mother is doing.


--Jay
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Anatta

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:40:44 PM
Ok let me start out by saying that my mom has told me and my brother many many times she wishes that we had been aborted, that our existence ruined her life and she constantly blames us for her lack of success. This hurts me more than you might know. I am supposed to exist here on earth and I have value and a purpose. This is why I still don't understand why women are so quick to have an abortion.

As it stands now from what I have gathered, men don't have any say so on whether they get to keep the baby or not. In the case of ftm it still would be up to them right? Whoever is having the baby , it's totally there choice right? So what about mtf? They want a baby but are seen as a woman, however the woman they are with wants an abortion, and so on and so forth.

Is it simply just whoever is carrying the baby then? However I still do not like the idea of an abortion unless there is no other choice. If you are having an abortion , because you simply just don't want a child or it gets in the way of your career, I would consider 1st to give up the child for adoption.

Another thing is, when is it actually murder to end a baby's life? I had always seen it as being from conception, but I would like to know how you all feel about it. I mean we send mom's and dad's who kill baby's after they are just born to jail.

I realize this is a touchy subject but I would think that with the birth control and condoms and other methods to prevent birth that is out there, you would wonder why there are so many abortions.

I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with their body, but you have to see the flip side of all this, how would you feel if your parents told you that you should have been aborted.


You wouldn't let a wart control your life would you?

Kia Ora Shawn,

It could be said that birth begins as a 'concept' [someone or an experience might plant the seed] and a change of mind can kill this concept...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Shawn Sunshine

well i am 40 years old and she says it often , at least 6 times a year, maybe more i try to block it out.
She is really topsy turvy my mother, one moment she cries and says she loves me, the next minute I am a mistake.




But why is it that fathers (mtf or otherwise) have no say so at all? I would like someone to explain to me why the dna and family of the father does not matter. Again please don't attack anyone and keep it civil.
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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spacial

On the matter of your mother attacking you in that way. Can you provide more information?

What were the regulations governing abortion in your area, when you and your brother were born?

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Shawn Sunshine

we were both born in Texas, 1972 and 1975 respectively.

I heard my  mom say things like that to me all my life, along with you are worthless, you are a burden, i wish you were not my child, things like that.
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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Annah

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:55:25 PM
But why is it that fathers (mtf or otherwise) have no say so at all?

The Supreme Court, in 1976, reaffirmed that the right of privacy allows women to be free of governmental interference in decisions about childbearing. The Court struck down parental and spousal consent laws that would allow a parent or husband to veto the abortion decision.
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Shawn Sunshine

Oh ok then, well I personally i don't know what to say for the most part at this point, I think there are times that abortion is necessary, but if I was a cisgender woman and by some chance I got pregnant , I would just go with it and do my best, or if things were really rough I would give them up for adoption as there are many women who cannot have children of their own. Just my 2 cents. I would also consider my spouses feelings before I made a decision anyways.



Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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Arch

I'm sorry that your mother says these hurtful things. She must be in a great deal of pain to say such things, but that doesn't excuse her.

Ever since I was a kid, I could not imagine myself having a baby. I figured I would adopt if I wanted kids. But I am obviously not a woman, nor was I a typical girl. I was a little boy, only nobody knew it.

I have been pregnant twice. The first time was a freak occurrence; we were both naked, and there was genital contact but no penetration. He must have been leaking a little, and one of the swimmers beat incredible odds. The second time, my boyfriend held me down and raped me while I begged him to use a condom. He obviously refused to comply.

I had absolutely no hesitation in obtaining an abortion when I got pregnant. There was no question in my mind. I was not having a kid.

The second time, I had to go through one of those assembly line clinics, and I wound up in a recovery room with lots of other...people. I seemed to be the only one who was much happier afterward than before, and the room was half full of good Catholic girls who were devastated by what they had been through. I was so merry that I was cracking jokes--I had no emotional connection whatsoever to the growth that had just been removed from my body--but I kept my eyes and ears open.

A few of the Catholic girls openly stated that they had refused to use birth control because it was a sin. Maybe they were weighing the certainty of that sin against the mere possibility that they would actually get pregnant and have to make a decision about it later. Maybe they thought that they would simply have the baby or that their boyfriend would marry them--but he didn't. (I only listened and did not ask questions.) One girl unequivocally stated that she could not bear the repeated sin of using a condom, say, fifty or a hundred times, whereas she saw an abortion as a one-time sin that she thought she could handle.

I wonder about the demographic breakdown. It might be that the clinic was very close to a large Latino/a community (I wasn't aware of such a community in that area), but maybe Catholic girls wind up getting abortions at a higher rate because they initially resisted the sin of using a condom.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Arch

P.S. You asked why fathers don't have the right to decide. I think this is right and proper. The pregnant person should have the final say--nobody should be forced to have a child he or she does not want, and I think that this right trumps everything else.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Shawn Sunshine

Yeah birth control is not a sin at all, nor is using a condom.

What about the 8,9th month of pregnancy, seems to me by a certain time that child is alive and has a right to be alive.
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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blueconstancy

It is in fact up to the person carrying the baby (man, woman, or non-binary-identified), because it's *their* body and life on the line. This is actually argued and debated and analyzed exhaustively all over the place, both on- and off-line, so suffice it to say that the law is fairly clear on that point. It also specifies that abortion is illegal after the point of viability, which is when the fetus is able to survive outside of the womb. Nobody is actually performing abortions on 8-month babies. There are very VERY rare cases in which the baby is already dead and has to be removed before the mother dies of infection, which get mixed up into horror stories about murdering babies.

Personally, my mother said similar things about wishing she'd aborted to me, too. Of course, she's also Catholic and firmly believes in the Church's mandate that birth control is a sin... And she made it very clear that if I ever came home pregnant while I lived with her and wasn't married, she'd kill me. She wasn't kidding, either; not sure she'd risk the jail time except in the heat of passion, but this is the same woman who once threw me down a flight of stairs for mouthing off to her when I was 11, and hit me in the face with a wooden picture frame and knocked out a tooth when I was 4 - and that time was because she'd started shaking my two-year-old sister and I didn't want her to kill the toddler. She did heat of passion pretty well, and could accidentally have killed both of us. I don't doubt at all that she would have flown off the handle and I *and the fetus* might not have survived it if I'd admitted that I thought I was pregnant in college (turns out it was thankfully a false alarm). So there's a lot of nuance to these sorts of discussions, and approximately a million personal reasons why someone might choose abortion.

Myself, I have not known one single person who did it because of fear of jeopardizing a career, or got up one morning and decided they were bored with pregnancy, or any of the other "shallow" reasons that are often cited as accusations against people who have abortions. Of course, the catch is that depriving people of the right to abortion - or forcing them to meet some arbitrary standard in order to "earn" it - runs the risk of also penalizing anyone else who gets pregnant, even those that the person making the argument to limit it would agree were much less clear-cut cases. Like a lot of other legally granted rights, the fact that someone occasionally misuses it in someone else's eyes is the price of letting everyone choose.
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Shawn Sunshine

Well I found yet another flip side, that is where a doctor demands a receptionist to have an abortion.


http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/08/21/doctor-tells-his-receptionist-to-have-abortion-because-it-isnt/

As far as career's go, its already been asked, i found a number of threads on the subject, here is one example:

http://mailbag.penelopetrunk.com/2012/08/11/should-i-interrupt-my-career-or-get-an-abortion/


Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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spacial

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:58:38 PM
we were both born in Texas, 1972 and 1975 respectively.

I heard my  mom say things like that to me all my life, along with you are worthless, you are a burden, i wish you were not my child, things like that.

It's taking ages, but I have a feeling that abortion was not very easy to get at that time in Texas.

The point is, I think your mother is simply tryng to hurt you. She is clearly neurotic and I'm sorry to say, neurotics do that when they become acute, which can be very often.

My mother, who was also very neurotic, used to swear at us in the most disgusting terms, she'd hit us with anything she could grab, one smashing one of my older brother's toys over his back. When she was calm, which became very rare as she got older, she couldn't understand why she behaved in that way at all. She was a former nun for whom swearing and curses were anathama

That sadly, is  the reality of living with a neurotic. They hurt so much inside the only way to rationalise it is to hurt other, the closer to them, the more they love them, the better.

http://www.policyalmanac.org/culture/archive/crs_abortion_overview.shtml

http://www.texasrighttolife.com/about/145/Abortion-Myths

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/history_abortion.html


This is what I've searched so far, but will try to find better
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BlueSloth

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:40:44 PM
Another thing is, when is it actually murder to end a baby's life? I had always seen it as being from conception, but I would like to know how you all feel about it.
I think if the baby's central nervous system is developed enough to be aware that something bad is happening and suffer, it's too late.  Of course, it's hard to tell when that actually happens, but I doubt the "point of viability" is a very well defined point either, and that's apparently good enough to base a law on.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:40:44 PM
how would you feel if your parents told you that you should have been aborted.
It'd depend on why they said it.  If they blamed me for existing and resented me for it, then I'd be devastated and probably have major emotional problems from it.  It wouldn't make a difference whether they wanted to abort me or didn't want to conceive me in the first place.
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Shawn Sunshine

well apparently towards the end of your 6th month babies get "smarter." I don't think that as children they can remember being in the womb but studies show that once born they recognize your voice from when they began hearing it in the womb. Also, if you listen to certain music repeatedly while pregnant, they recognize it as newborns.
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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Constance

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 06, 2013, 02:40:44 PM
This is why I still don't understand why women are so quick to have an abortion.
None of the women I know who have had abortions were "quick" to do so. It was life saving for at least two of the mothers (one of them had an embryo implant in one of her fallopian tubes).

It is rarely a "quick" decision.

Shawn Sunshine

no i suppose it is not. I am all for saving the life of the mother.
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
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spring0721

I definitely think having a baby should be up to the person carrying it. I personally would never have an abortion, however I don't think it's anyones place to dictate what someone else wants to do with their life/body.  I do feel that people in todays world sometimes use abortion as a contaception method...I have a cousin who has gotten pregnant and had an abortion 9 times that I know of....yes 9! To me this is just irresponsible.  Someone like this should be on birth control or not having sex.  If you are raped, luckily now they will give you the morning after pill at the ER (which in thiat situation I would have no hesitation taking).

And to shawnsunshine.....I'm sorry you've had to hear your mother say that to you for 40 years! It was her choice to keep you, adoption would have been an option to her in the 70's but she made the choice to keep you. A mother should never make her child feel unwanted. Children don't ask to be here, no matter what the circumstances were regarding their conception.
People are people, treat everyone with the same respect and courtesy that you want to receive.
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