Top surgery without bottom surgery? (My dad's views may offend people)

[Joe.]

After a discussion with my parents, I said that having bottom surgery wasn't a big need for me. Of course I'd want it, but the procedure scares me and can be risky. I told them I wanted top surgery though. My dad proceeded to say that if I don't want bottom surgery then I'm still a girl and it must be purely an image thing. He said that if I wanted to be a boy that bad then I'd get it, no matter what the risks are. He also said that nobody would ever want to be in a relationship with someone who is 'half and half' as he called it. My question is, how many of you have top surgery without bottom surgery and how many of you know you don't want bottom surgery in the future?
Joey

[spacerace]

I don't want bottom surgery. I want top surgery ASAP.

It's a cost benefit analysis. Currently, the reward is not worth the effort (risk/cost/pain/future health issues) for me.

Don't listen to people who say you need to want bottom surgery to really be transgender - your dad has no idea. There's lot of reasons people don't get bottom surgery. There's also a fair number of guys who absolutely need bottom surgery to deal with their dysphoria, so to each our own.

Your dad is just trying to find random reasons to protest. Relationships wise, some people's partners prefer they don't get Bottom surgery - so people's preferences are all over the place. Don't worry.

[Simon]

I think that sentiment is one shared by many relatives of trans folks. My mom just a few weeks ago was talking to me about my hysto and I mentioned I plan on top surgery in about two years. Her first reaction was "what about the other?". I said "what other" (just to see what she would say) and she said "you have to get a penis if you want to be a man". Then I asked her if a man born with a micropenis or a man who was castrated in an accident was still a man. She said "well, of course", yet she didn't get the irony.

Do I want bottom surgery? Yeeeeessss, buuuuutttt I don't like the options available right now. Regardless of what I want bottom surgery is very expensive and it will be a decade for me before it's even an option financially. I am thinking about getting a "release" in around five years and seeing if that eases my dysphoria but that remains to be seen.

There are people who don't mind being with someone who is "half and half" (as your father so elegantly put it  ). I'll be with my gf (who only dated cis men before we met) nine years on February 12th. If there is somebody for me then you better believe there is someone out there for everyone else.

[Jeatyn]

It is my understanding that actually a very large proportion of trans men choose not to get bottom surgery for a variety of reasons. So basically your dad is talking out his ass and just looking for any reason to stay in denial about you.

I don't plan on ever getting lower surgery but top surgery is an absolute 100% necessity.  A man is not defined by his genitals.

[Joe.]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I totally agree with all of you and I said to him earlier that plenty of other trans men don't have bottom surgery and he said that they're not a man then, they're still a woman. Glad to know I'm not the only one.
Joey

[Jeatyn]

It amuses me to think that people who share your dad's views could have met any number of transpeople in their life and never even realised. Unless he has a very weird relationship with all of his friends and aquaintences there's no way he can know for sure what's in their pants

[Joe.]

It amuses me to think that people who share your dad's views could have met any number of transpeople in their life and never even realised. Unless he has a very weird relationship with all of his friends and aquaintences there's no way he can know for sure what's in their pants

That's true actually haha never even thought of it like that.
Joey

[FullThrottleMalehem]

Ask him if a man who loses his testicles or penis/part of his penis in an accident or in a war, or who is born with a smaller than average or even micro penis, undescended testicles, is not a man then. What a ridiculous, closed minded view on things. There are gay men in relationships with trans men who haven't had bottom surgery, and straight women too, so there are people open minded about the issue and willing to date those of us who can't afford or don't want the risks/not too terribly advanced results of surgery.

[AdamMLP]

From what I've heard, some people have always wanted both top and bottom surgeries, some people started off wanting only top surgery and then felt later like they needed bottom surgery as well, some people get top surgery and can't afford it or have medical issues that prevent them, some people can't get either because of financial or medical issues, and some people don't feel the need to get either.  There's no 'right' way to be trans, and there's no regulations as to what procedures you go through, it's all about making you comfortable with yourself, not conforming to other people's ideas.

It doesn't make someone less of a man if they choose not to go through a very expensive, risky operation -- or in some cases, phalloplasty in particular -- more than one operation.  Every single anesthetic you go under carries a risk, and that's before you start the risks of infection etc.  There's no guarantee that you're going to get one on the NHS either, especially if you would rather get a metoidioplasty than a phalloplasty, because they believe that guys aren't satisfied with meta, so go and get phallo done later and they don't like 'wasting' their (our) money.

Does your dad really want to go and battle with the NHS over his son getting risky surgeries, which may or may not improve his quality of life?
Maybe nudge him towards looking at some results, and then he might see why quite a few trans men opt out of getting bottom surgery despite still being men (this isn't to say that they're subpar/disgusting/horrific/[insert derogatory word here], just that they're not perfect, and it's quite easy to see how the actual surgery/ies are pretty nasty to go through, especially in the case of MLD flap phalloplasty (looks like a massive shark bite to me)).

Maybe don't say that you will never want bottom surgery, but rather just say that top surgery has got to be your main priority, and that it's not worth looking as far into the future as bottom surgery at the moment, considering you're not on T and have only just come out.  Suggest that it might be better for your health if you waited to see if bottom surgery techniques were likely to become more advanced and that you are a man no matter what; you would love to get a penis, but they're neither anatomically perfect and quite risky at the moment.

Either way, plenty of people who are "half and half" have partners.  Every one's bodies are different, and even if he wouldn't go out with someone who didn't have the genitals that matched their gender, other people will.  There are roughly 7,090,659,130 people on the earth at the time I write this, and it's crazy to think that one man can suggest that none of them will love you purely on the choices you make regarding your health.

It amuses me to think that people who share your dad's views could have met any number of transpeople in their life and never even realised. Unless he has a very weird relationship with all of his friends and aquaintences there's no way he can know for sure what's in their pants

Also this.  Whenever my grandfather gets disgusted over gay people on TV, or their general existence, I always cheer myself up by reminding myself that one of his favourite current actors - Micheal French - is bisexual.  For someone who normally turns the TV off at any sign of gay people (or left wing politicians, Scottish people (except his Scottish wife and Scottish mother), Irish people, Welsh people, any foreign person in general...) he was quite keen to buy the box set of one of the series he starred in...

[Devlyn]

Your family is still getting their minds around this, Joey, give them time to go through the steps. From their viewpoint you're basically killing off someone they love and raised, and replacing that person with someone else. Sure, you're the same person, they haven't figured it out yet, though. Give them time, be patient and work with them. When it seems like they don't understand, well, they don't. But they will. They'll understand when they see you as a happy man. Hugs, Devlyn

[Joe.]

He said he'd looked up some of the procedures and he said that surely if I wanted to be a man then I'd go through with it despite the risks. Thanks for your comments. You're all saying how I'm feeling. I now have some good points to come back with if he says it again.

I know Devlyn. It's just so hard to give them time. My mum is still convinced I'm confused about liking girls. She even called me f***ed up. I don't think they'll ever understand. They told me that themselves.

Joey

[Devlyn]

Trust me, they'll understand one day.

[dalebert]

He also said that nobody would ever want to be in a relationship with someone who is 'half and half' as he called it.

Well I know for a fact that's not true.

[AdamMLP]

He said he'd looked up some of the procedures and he said that surely if I wanted to be a man then I'd go through with it despite the risks. Thanks for your comments. You're all saying how I'm feeling. I now have some good points to come back with if he says it again.

I know Devlyn. It's just so hard to give them time. My mum is still convinced I'm confused about liking girls. She even called me f***ed up. I don't think they'll ever understand. They told me that themselves.

Joey

If anything's f'd up it's wanting their kid to have their body sliced up in order to prove him to them.  It does take time though, and there's nothing we can do to speed that up except try and be open with them.  Even my girlfriend who was supportive from the start needed a bit of time to adjust herself and realise that this really is who am, and that I'm not going to change, but almost a year of knowing and loving someone isn't quite the same as a lifetime I suppose, which is why it's going to take them more than 3 days.  Once they realise that it's who you are, and you're not going to change you should almost be there.

Sorry, I know I'm sounding harsh.  It just seems so wrong for a parent to say that they won't believe you unless you willingly go to a surgeon and ask them to cut you up.  We get annoyed enough at governments saying that we have to do that, parents should love us more than that.  Shame it rarely seems to work out that way.

(I'm just going to slope of now before I really upset someone with my cynicism.)

[Joe.]

You're not being harsh. You're only saying what I'm thinking. I was fuming earlier. I left the house and didn't return for hours. I don't want to be around them. I'm moving out as soon as I can.
Joey

[aleon515]

I'm guessing your dad lacks knowledge re: transgender. Obviously this isn't true as probably most trans guys do not get surgery. Many do not get it due to cost, but there are other factors (options available, how happy people are with the options, etc). Sometimes people do change their minds (one way or another about this).

If you can get him to read stuff, Laura's playground has a (very) moderated "child" group. Most of the people who post are parents of adult children and not really kids (some might be teen aged). He can even read without joining. I think both Susan's and Laura's has info about transgender which he might be willing to read. There is a film called Trans the movie, just not sure how easy it is to get ahold of. They follow 2 guys and 3 women in their transition. There are several other well-known trans men who are interviewed.

--Jay

[Joe.]

Thanks Jay, I'll look them up. I'm gonna leave it for a bit but next time we talk I'll try and give them some resources.
Joey

[Elspeth]

It is my understanding that actually a very large proportion of trans men choose not to get bottom surgery for a variety of reasons. So basically your dad is talking out his ass and just looking for any reason to stay in denial about you.

Ditto, ditto, ditto.

My understanding is that the majority of FTMs don't opt for bottom surgery, mainly because they consider it unsatisfactory in some way. I've commented before that men's general ignorance when it comes to recognizing what an organic vagina looks like plays a role in both why MTFs tend to opt into bottom surgery (there's also the much greater degree of homophobia to be considered among men vs. women, and a few dozen other reasons why the current state of the art leaves FTMs ambivalent at best about this option.  It only presents a very serious issue, when you think about it, when it comes to transmen who identify as gay, and only want a relationship with a man. But there are open-minded gay guys who can fall in love with a guy who doesn't have that particular piece. Not all, to be sure, but some.

A surgically constructed penis, at this point, is not likely to be mistaken for an organically-grown one, unless your potential partner is way beyond naive, and who really wants a stupid partner, or someone that uninformed when it comes to bodies and their parts?

(My ex, though, in her ignorance, has been raising some of these same questions when it comes to what my trans son wants and is ambivalent about... you'd think she'd have done some research by now, but to be fair, she's been more than busy with her career in the time since we separated, and wasn't really expecting to have to deal with having had both a transwoman partner and a transman child. I was a little surprised myself, but now I'm looking back even at baby pics and I can see it.)

[DriftingCrow]

I think Alex about said it all quite perfectly above. Just take your time Joey and don't let anyone pressure you. Just tell your parents you're taking things one step at a time, and bottom surgery is one of the last things on your list to consider.

(My ex, though, in her ignorance, has been raising some of these same questions when it comes to what my trans son wants and is ambivalent about... you'd think she'd have done some research by now, but to be fair, she's been more than busy with her career in the time since we separated, and wasn't really expecting to have to deal with having had both a transwoman partner and a transman child. I was a little surprised myself, but now I'm looking back even at baby pics and I can see it.)

Completely off topic, but I wonder if being trans is genetic?

[DeeW]

He said that if I wanted to be a boy that bad then I'd get it, no matter what the risks are. He also said that nobody would ever want to be in a relationship with someone who is 'half and half' as he called it.

You just gotta love... I mean be incredibly frustrated... at how quickly people jump to moderating behavior. In one breathe they can say they will never understand, and in the next attempt to put up rules and assumptions based on their own limited perspective. It's illogical.

But anyway, to your question. I'm not sure whether I will get bottom surgery. But it does not make me 'less of a man'. Many others have mentioned examples that we would not say to cismen, we're no different.
I do think the options will improve. There was something my therapist told me about, but I'm having a hard time remembering it, mostly because it was mentioned more in passing. I haven't really researched the options we have now, not to the extent of top surgery, so I don't know if what she told me was a new procedure, but it was done outside the country. I'll have ask.

As for the 'half and half' comment well, more behavior policing. I think we all know how much BS that is. Buck Angel disproves this.