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Fashion problem

Started by kathy bottoms, January 12, 2013, 05:04:38 PM

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kathy bottoms

Hi girls.   I'm back on Susan's for a day or two because I have a little problem, and I know you'll be able to help.  No, I'm not having some sort of disaster.  And after coming out to my family everyone is supportive, and some said they're even willing to help me.  Getting their support is great, but "helping" me sounds odd.  What can they do?  Transition for me?   :D   Actually I can always use their help.

And now for the silly little question.  I can't wear nice women's clothing yet, and was told by one of the girls from my therapy group to think about dressing androgynously until I'm comfortable and ready to dress as myself.  I like this idea, and it'll work for me.  But, how the heck can a 61 year old transwoman dress androgynously?  This is what I wanted to do.  But is it a bit too "Anime", male, or feminine?   You'll probably understand it better than I do.

My original idea
1. A partly opened white blouse with a loose, short, and narrow dark tie
2. Dark pleated straight leg jeans
3. A simple half buttoned vest
4. Black, low heal oxford style leather sneakers
5. A small brim gray fedora to hide my receding hair (don't worry, I'll get some work done to the hair)
6. A long, belted tweed coat for winter.

Anyway, give me suggestions.  Everything will help.

Love Kathy

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Teela Renee

UM, hmmm, guess it depends on what genre,/ look your going for?  I like the modern/semi pop look.    So I wear baggy jeans, some holes in them, with the faded look   and a undershirt, and usually rock a semi baggy  route 66 womens T, or my favorite shirt, my Michigan state spartans womens T.         Most the Time I go out just like in my profile pic.   Just depends on how you wanna present yourself. Sorry if that wasnt much help. ^_^;;;


Edit: love the coat idea BTW.  I have a belted, peacoat that I like to use.
RedNeck girls have all the fun 8)
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Elspeth

Quote from: kathy b on January 12, 2013, 05:04:38 PM
My original idea
1. A partly opened white blouse with a loose, short, and narrow dark tie
2. Dark pleated straight leg jeans
3. A simple half buttoned vest
4. Black, low heal oxford style leather sneakers
5. A small brim gray fedora to hide my receding hair (don't worry, I'll get some work done to the hair)
6. A long, belted tweed coat for winter.

Anyway, give me suggestions.  Everything will help.

Love Kathy

Keep in mind these are strictly my opinions, and may not work for you, depending, especially, on what your daily schedule is like and where you work.

I would avoid ties and vests. These work great for FTMs wanting to go androgynous or even male. With MTFs they are just likely to reinforce a guy look. I'd try scarves, starting with neutral ones if you're worried. Scarves can be your friends. Also, you might want to consider one instead of the fedora, as a way of concealing hair or lack thereof.

If you wear most women's tops without a bra and breastforms, you'll still be read as male, but it will send androgynous vibes. Start with things that have subtle femme details and gradually find your own comfort zone.  (It will probably be easy to find... whatever you're willing to wear on the street marks your current comfort zone).  Also, jeans and other pants from the women's section, you are likely to discover, can be comfortable, and ambiguous (especially if they contain any lycra or spandex in the material). They may draw attention, but mostly from anyone who already knows what you're going for.

For at least the last 20 years (mid 30s onward, now 53) I have rarely worn anything that didn't come from the women's departments. Only when I added dangly earrings and very obvious shades of nail polish (and much less unisex in color and cut tops and bottoms) did people start asking about my gender identity, and some of those people just didn't remember, for instance, that I'd been wearing post earrings (in pierced ears, on both sides, in matching pairs) almost constantly over the past 10 years.

It is utterly amazing what people will do to not see what they don't expect. OTOH, some of my friends had also probably known for years, and were relieved that the wait was finally over.

There are all kinds of white blouses. To comment I'd probably want to see a picture of what you're thinking of. I can think of some blouses that might make those other items possibly seem more androgynous. Same with the jeans. Something that hugs the calves is going to be a lot more androgynous than something that doesn't and from "skinny jeans" I take it you do mean something that's likely to reveal the shape of your legs. Whether that works for you or not probably depends a lot on the shape of your legs.

Find a store like Kohl's that will have no problem with you carrying items from the women's department across the floor to a men's changing room. Talk to sales clerks... shopping volume is low this time of year. Between that and the barely recovering economy, they are likely to be more than eager to accommodate you as long as you're respectful and polite, even in stores like Lane Bryant. Big girl stores and those carrying more of an older clientele may be as bit more friendly (and carry age appropriate stock) in part because they are not flooded with teens and there's less likely to be a misunderstanding that you might be looking to set up hidden cams or something in their dressing rooms, if you're looking more for casual, professional or sportswear stuff that's not associated with any of the more obvious kinks.
"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."
- Sonmi-451 in Cloud Atlas
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kathy bottoms

Quote from: Teela Renee on January 12, 2013, 05:11:00 PM
UM, hmmm, guess it depends on what genre,/ look your going for? ........ 
love the coat idea BTW.  I have a belted, peacoat that I like to use.

Thanks Teela.  But unfortunately I'm kind of looking for something age appropriate, and something I'm a little use to.  I wore sports coats and ties for years in a government job, so that's why I kind of started with a dressed up look. 

I wore a peacoat in the 60"s in highschool before I went hippie.  Loved it.

Quote from: Elspeth on January 12, 2013, 05:35:41 PM
Keep in mind these are strictly my opinions, and may not work for you, depending, especially, on what your daily schedule is like and where you work.

I would avoid ties and vests. These work great for FTMs wanting to go androgynous or even male. With MTFs they are just likely to reinforce a guy look. I'd try scarves, starting with neutral ones if you're worried. Scarves can be your friends. Also, you might want to consider one instead of the fedora, as a way of concealing hair or lack thereof.

If you wear most women's tops without a bra and breastforms, you'll still be read as male, but it will send androgynous vibes.  ........ Also, jeans and other pants from the women's section, you are likely to discover, can be comfortable, and ambiguous (especially if they contain any lycra or spandex in the material).

Elspeth:

I'll look into the scarf thing a little more.  Since I've worn ties a lot in the past they were a comfortable choice.

Unfortunately I wear a 42C or 42D depending on who makes the bra.  I've only been on approved HRT for six months, but there was a lot of "bad" medicine over the years.  So the breasts do need to be hidden if I want an androgen look.  That's also where the vest comes into play. 

I'll post a picture of myself a little later in "Could I Pass One Day".  You'll be able to see what a mess I have to work with.  :)

Kathy. 
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Elspeth

Quote from: kathy b on January 12, 2013, 07:31:53 PM
I'll look into the scarf thing a little more.  Since I've worn ties a lot in the past they were a comfortable choice.

Unfortunately I wear a 42C or 42D depending on who makes the bra.  I've only been on approved HRT for six months, but there was a lot of "bad" medicine over the years.  So the breasts do need to be hidden if I want an androgen look.  That's also where the vest comes into play.

Kathy, I think I'll wait to see pics before offering any more specific advice. At that bust size it does sound like you'll be wanting to check out stores (and sites) like Lane Bryant... I'm down to a 38 band size again, and hope to go lower if I'm extraordinarily lucky with HRT. I'm back now to where I can go as low as an XL in tops without overstretching them and still have another 30 pounds (at least) to lose. A lot of my older, looser fitting wardrobe came from there, or from women's size sections of other stores, while now I can shop in misses sections again. You might want to consider some sweaters too, at least during winter months.

One thing about the blouse & tie combo, especially if our chest is decidedly male-ish, is that they may, because of smaller buttons, placement of pockets and other details (I'm thinking you might be referring to button down tops or blouses that are a take on oxford style shirts, but tailored for women), is that they may tend to draw attention to your overall chest size in ways that are not flattering.

This is something you should know the minute you try them on, though, and it may work okay if you find the right size for your body, which may have little to do with the size chart, especially not the womens' standard size charts.  Most of us need to watch the overall length, especially with tops. The more you try things on, the better your sense will be of predicting your likely size, and choosing items that work.  If you're getting started, be sure to pick the same garment in a range of possible sizes, and compare how each size looks on your frame. Once you know that for one garment, you should have an idea what the most likely size will be for a good fit, as long as the tops are similar in construction.

My ex was always hugely judgmental and cautious and tended to reject things she (as a ciswoman) assumed would not flatter her, without giving them a chance. I kind of prided myself on persuading her to try on things a little outside her comfort zone, and after she did that, both of us got considerably more at ease spotting things that would or wouldn't work for her... she was very petite, but with a larger than average chest and bust, so not everything was made to flatter her either.
"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."
- Sonmi-451 in Cloud Atlas
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kathy bottoms

Quote from: Elspeth on January 12, 2013, 07:57:53 PM
Kathy, I think I'll wait to see pics before offering any more specific advice. At that bust size it does sound like you'll be wanting to check out stores (and sites) like Lane Bryant .................

One thing about the blouse & tie combo, especially if our chest is decidedly male-ish, is that they may, because of smaller buttons, placement of pockets and other details (I'm thinking you might be referring to button down tops or blouses that are a take on oxford style shirts, but tailored for women), is that they may tend to draw attention to your overall chest size in ways that are not flattering.  ..................

Elspeth:  I'm thrilled you're able to give me the kind of advice I need.  When GID became  worse for me 25 years ago and I started to put on the pounds.  I was 6'-0" and around 155 when I was a land surveyor for the State, and gained over 100lbs in those years.   I'm down a little over 45lbs in six months and I've got another 45 to go. 

To be less formal, and hopefully less male, I went through some clothes that I have and might be able to use right now for the andro look. Maybe I can  put something together.  Also saw one nice top at Walmart yesterday.

1 .A long brown blouse with dark brown buttons - women's XL
2. Saw a lightly embroidered all black 3 button pull over - Walmart clearance Women's XL only $3
3. Long wool scarf brownish-red
4. A waist length black vertical collar jacket, with gray lining and trim - wrist length sleeves
5. 30 year old heavy cotton thigh length black overcoat/ tie-up belt
6.  Dark shiny nylon brown winter vest -  XL
7.  Dark brown leather vest , with a thin sheepskin lining
8.  Multi-color, wide horizontal striped, long sleeve cotton pull over  v-neck.

Thanks, Kathy
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kathy bottoms

Quote from: Elspeth on January 12, 2013, 07:57:53 PM
Kathy, I think I'll wait to see pics before offering any more specific advice.

I'll send you a couple pictures if I get a chance.  I'm going offline again because I'm really in a comfortable place right now.  JoAnn and I are going shopping in Las Vegas next week and she said she'll help me find what I need.  I'm going to take some of your advice in order to make this a lot simpler.

Love Kathy
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