How do you shop for electrolysis?

[A]

My last of 7 laser sessions is this week. After that, I guess it'll be time for me to switch over and start electrolysis ASAP. But I don't know how to look for someone who'll do this. At all. Well, the looking in the phonebook and calling places, I get it, but once on the phone, what do I ask? What are the criterias to choose a good electrologist?

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  What kind of machines are good? Brands, or something?
  

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  Should I ask about the hairs per minute? What is good, average or bad?
  

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  What is a reasonable price? What is too expensive?
  

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  What are the criteria I can ask about that make a good technician?
  

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  Assuming enough dark hair grows back to make it worth an extra laser session, how can I mix the two?
  

And also...

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  I want to be done as fast as possible. Very fast. By summer, if I can, because that's when I've planned to go full-time. Is this possible?
  

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  Considering that I've done laser, which got rid of a fair portion of the dark hairs, but still have a significant number of light ones, how many hours, and how much money can I plan for?
  

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  Is it realistic to try to get a discounted price because I'll be doing a ton of electrolysis? How should I proceed with trying to do that? Because my budget is pretty limited. I only have 2200 $ saved up, which may go up to 3500, no more, once I bring the pile of refundable medication receipts I have lying around. And I need to buy my female wardrobe this summer, too, which is EXPENSIVE in capitals, since absolutely nothing in my current wardrobe can be kept. All clothes I dislike, and everything, from underwear to winter coat and boots, either doesn't fit, is breaking down or both. And I just learned that my school schedule for this term doesn't allow me to work. Awesome.
  

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  What is best? Aiming for the darker, most visible hairs at first, so the appearance improves faster, or going for the lighter ones first, so laser, which is cheaper, can eventually come back to get them?
  

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  How long after I'm done with laser can I start electrolysis?
  

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  How can I tell whether there's enough darker hair for it to be worth it to go back to laser?
  

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  What should I do to minimise eventual scarring and to make the results as good as they can be?
  

And uhm... Any other relevant information.

[smooth]

The machines aren't as important as the operator but a more modern machine will make for a more comfortable experience. I use an Apilus myself and I'm pretty confident in saying it's probably the best machine out there...

Hairs per minute isn't as important as kill rate but that's a hard one to get a solid answer on. If an electrologist insists that hairs are killed over time with each hair requiring more than one hit over several appointments consider finding someone else who has more faith in their work. Hairs can be killed first time, not all but certainly some, reasonably most. If you weren't so impatient it would be time well spent to get a definite test area done and leave it for at least a couple of months to see what comes back. It mightn't be the best indicator in your case though because you have recently had laser. In this case it might well be that only a % of the hairs that you still have may be visible. Any electrologist will only be able to treat the hairs she/he can see and any follicles that have been laying dormant but then fire up again will make it appear like re-growth from electrolysis...

A reasonable price is open to debate and interpretation. Pity you're not in the UK I happen to know someone who is very reasonably priced

"What makes a good tech" Someone who is passionate about what they do. Someone who does not pluck. Someone who has taken the time to truly understand what it is that they need to do to kill a follicle. Experience is good but be careful with this one because there are a lot of techs out there who have been getting it wrong for many years and will continue to do so because they are dinosaurs.

personally I wouldn't say it would be a good idea to mix laser with electro. If the laser has had an impact you may be lucky enough to only have a few remaining hairs. Your electrologist will be able to treat these if she/he can see them. There's a fair chance that if they have returned after 7 laser sessions they will continue returning after some more. . .

Being finished by summer is very unlikely. You could expect a fair amount of the darker hairs to be gone but because of the laser treatments it might be a few months or more before some of your original hairs will even be seen again.... You will probably find once you stop shaving for good that you will start to see finer hairs rearing their heads. These hairs have always been there but they are rarely noticed because they grow slower and end up lost amongst the darker growth. Once you stop shaving they have more time to grow and make themselves known. This is a difficult time because once you stop shaving it feels like you're finished but there is still a way to go to get these finer hairs and be completely SMOOTH

Difficult if not impossible to plan accurately for hair removal cos everyone's different.

I think it's reasonable to ask for a discount IF you're doing block bookings ie a few hours at a time or more. If your electrologist isn't having to do shorter appointments with different clients in spite of charging you less money it should still work out better for her/him. No changing of probes, tweezers. couch cover, gloves etc and no time wasted between appointments

If your budget is limited it would make sense to hit the darker hairs first, then the less dark ones, the smaller ones etc etc until all your left with is vellus hair that most women have in some measure. If you are insisting on going back for more laser then leave the thicker darker ones because these are the hairs that laser has the best chance with. Personally I'd forget about laser if you're going to do electro but I am biased.

To minimise eventual scarring take you time finding someone capable. Speak to others who are finished and look at their results. Only use minimal intervention when it comes to aftercare. Don't use any products not recommended by your electrologist. Absolutely do not pick the area, don't shave it either until you can do it without disturbing the healing process. Don't disturb any scabs that might form. If you should get ingrowns, which ideally you shouldn't because any treated follicles should have been killed, don't dig around trying to get the hairs out. Don't pluck because your electrologist won't be able to treat any hairs she/he can't see. plucking on it's own can sometimes cause scarring...

Hairs shouldn't feel like they are being plucked. It's reasonable to say if you can feel plucking these hairs will return. You may feel a little tugging but this should only be your electrologist testing a hair that hasn't been treated enough yet. In this case it should be re-treated to make sure the hair doesn't come back.

Hope that helps

I really do need to get out more 

[A]

Uuuhm, thanks, but sadly this doesn't help me as much as I'd like. For a first step, I'd like things that'll help me pick a place on the phone. Warning flags for once I've started are not quite what I need right now - thought they very well might come in handy later.

As for asking people who are done... I'm afraid it's not an option. I live in a pretty small region, and looking for the few trans that are here, assuming they're not off to bigger cities already, is like looking for a needle in a pack of grass. Besides, I don't have any friends here, let alone people having done electro, and I hardly see myself going "would you give me the number of some of your patients?"

So yeah. I really need guidance in my search. Moving around and trying each one is hardly an option. I have a busy school schedule, busses barely run on week-ends and even when they run normally, it's quite slow to get to one place from another.

[smooth]

Give me an idea of your location and I'll see if I can help

[Zumbagirl]

Uuuhm, thanks, but sadly this doesn't help me as much as I'd like. For a first step, I'd like things that'll help me pick a place on the phone. Warning flags for once I've started are not quite what I need right now - thought they very well might come in handy later.

I think we as a community spend so much time worrying about trans friendly electrologists that we can forget that the most important thing is skill level and experience. I would call and ask if they can work on faces. I was flat out obvious about the fact that they were doing a male face when I started. If they don't want to do it, then hang up. Chances are any electrologist will love having you as a client because you are a repeat client and you are a cash cow to them. They don't need to know why you want your face cleared, that's your business and you are under no obligation to tell them. They offer a service and you are a potential customer.

The first electrologist I ever went to was a born again evangelical, who made no bones about telling me I was going to burn in hell, and yet at the same time happy that I was booking more appointments and paid in cash. I went to her because she was close to home. Eventually I got sick of her hypocrisy and went somewhere else. I do want to say that she did a good job. The killer for me was that she wouldn't let me book more than 2 hours a time or multiple sessions per week.

My next electrologist blew me away with kindness and a skill level that was nothing shy of amazing. She understood my goal and helped me achieve it. What more could I ask for? He big plus for me was that she was willing to do blend which is what I wanted to use for my face.

[JennX]

The short answer is, you'll never know until you let them work on you... but then it can be too late. I have been to 6-7 different electrologists, and only 1-2 are really good and have any clue on how to remove MTF facial hair.

In answer to your questions:

1. Machines/Brands: Apilus, Hinkel, Fischer, GenTronics, are all good and well-known machines. Make sure the machine is a capable of doing different modes, such as blend, thermolysis, flash-thermo, and galvanic, just not one or the other.

2. Don't worry about his/her speed, worry more about his/her technique and regrowth rate. Which will be apparent after the first few visits.

3. Price: $60-$80USD per hour is a fair range.

4. You time range is way too short. Facial hair removal takes 1-2 years of 1-2 hours per week minimum... unless you have very little hair to remove.

4. You don't mix laser + electro. You get one or the other and wait 30 days after switching to give your skin time to heal.

5. Hard to say w/o seeing a picture.

6. Pricing all depends on the place. Some will work with you, others not so much.

7. I'd go for the thick dark ones first, as they are the most visible.

8. See above.

9. Again, need to see a pic. A good laser tech should give you an honest answer.

10. Scarring depends mostly on the operators technique. Too shallow a probe insertion will most definitely result in scarring. As you will burn the top layer of the skin. Also too small a needle can cause burning and scarring as well, as smaller needles tend to heat up faster and concentrate all the heat at the tip. Finally, using too much heat or current can as well. This is why it's important to learn a few things yourself, and monitor your tech.

[A]

Zumbagirl: Actually, I wasn't thinking of that at all. Religious people here tend to hide. Even in the very surprising event that she thinks I'll burn in hell, she won't say it at a 99.99% chance. And I haven't ever heard of a "trans-friendly" professional here at all, because they're not really needed. Everyone is acceptably friendly. Many places, I'll be the subject of gossip when I'm out, but then, they won't be telling me that.

The short answer is, you'll never know until you let them work on you... but then it can be too late. I have been to 6-7 different electrologists, and only 1-2 are really good and have any clue on how to remove MTF facial hair.

Encouraging. Trans people are virtually nonexistent here. Sounds like a lot of work.

In answer to your questions:

1. Machines/Brands: Apilus, Hinkel, Fischer, GenTronics, are all good and well-known machines. Make sure the machine is a capable of doing different modes, such as blend, thermolysis, flash-thermo, and galvanic, just not one or the other.

Why? They'll be doing many things on me? Shouldn't I be picking one "okay, this one is the right one for me", a bit like diode laser, and want that?

2. Don't worry about his/her speed, worry more about his/her technique and regrowth rate. Which will be apparent after the first few visits.

Ew. My visual skills = zero.

3. Price: $60-$80USD per hour is a fair range.

YOU MUST BE KIDDING ME. 60 $ the price of a private psychologist with a Master's degree, and with decades of experience at that! How can those people with a professional high school certificate be asking for such a fortune?

4. You time range is way too short. Facial hair removal takes 1-2 years of 1-2 hours per week minimum... unless you have very little hair to remove.

Well, I was thinking of maybe going all Saturday or something... 5-8 hours. That's not doable? Because seeing how it took my mother years to clear her woman's facial hair at that kind of rate, I definitely need to be going much more than an hour or two a week. Besides, I don't want to prolong the agony of having a bad-looking face and needing to grow beard for too long.

4. You don't mix laser + electro. You get one or the other and wait 30 days after switching to give your skin time to heal.

5. Hard to say w/o seeing a picture.

I wouldn't mind giving you one, but I haven't had my last treatment yet, so it wouldn't be very useful, eh?

6. Pricing all depends on the place. Some will work with you, others not so much.

7. I'd go for the thick dark ones first, as they are the most visible.

8. See above.

9. Again, need to see a pic. A good laser tech should give you an honest answer.

10. Scarring depends mostly on the operators technique. Too shallow a probe insertion will most definitely result in scarring. As you will burn the top layer of the skin. Also too small a needle can cause burning and scarring as well, as smaller needles tend to heat up faster and concentrate all the heat at the tip. Finally, using too much heat or current can as well. This is why it's important to learn a few things yourself, and monitor your tech.

Sigh. Looks like a lot depends on my judgement, which is bad and very forgiving. Sounds hard.

[Joana25]

I've done 12 sessions of laser in 1 years time (price;: $900) not to bad on the pain and really quick.
It gets rid of a lot of that breard shadows. But there still has been some regrowth so I've switched to electrolysis and it hurts way more than laser ($70 hour) but I can only handle on hour at a time.  As for finding a good electrolysis well I just did a Google search and started call them until I fel confortable.

[Elspeth]

3. Price: $60-$80USD per hour is a fair range.

YOU MUST BE KIDDING ME. 60 $ the price of a private psychologist with a Master's degree, and with decades of experience at that! How can those people with a professional high school certificate be asking for such a fortune?

I wish I lived where you live. One more reminder that pricing varies a lot depending on where one lives.

Not meaning to highjack this thread, but does anyone have a good recommendation in Central NJ? Preferrably Somerset, Middlesex or Mercer County, the closer to Princeton the better?

I'm aware already of Karen Albanese, but she's at least an hour and a half away from me, so if someone knows of someone equally qualified (or has good reason to recommend Karen despite the distance) I'm all ears. With my coloration, laser was never a real option.

[A]

Joana25: Heh. 2700 $, after discount, if I remember well, for 7 sessions of laser, here. I've been had.

Though ouch, so very expensive, the electro. But you're pretty modern, eh? Salons having websites and such... :p Here, it's the phonebook! xD

Elspeth: Gotta hope it's very cheap here, then. Geez. 60 $ an hour. That job doesn't even require any official training, yet they earn more than I can hope to after university, unless I get very lucky. I know it doesn't all go to the salon, but it still sounds like a huge fortune to me.

[Elspeth]

Elspeth: Gotta hope it's very cheap here, then. Geez. 60 $ an hour. That job doesn't even require any official training, yet they earn more than I can hope to after university, unless I get very lucky. I know it doesn't all go to the salon, but it still sounds like a huge fortune to me.

It gets worse. I expect that $60-80/hr is probably on the dangerously cheap side for where I live. Possible there's someone doing it for that around here, but my son's last hair salon visit (admittedly, it was around 3 hours, and involved bleaching and dye work, still, the cut itself was basically a male side trim and some left on top... that visit cost my ex nearly $200, with tip, in fact, I think it was over $200).

If I were younger, and had no kids, I might consider moving to another country for transition. Granted, I'd probably have wound up dying one way or another if I'd done that.

[A]

Well, hair salons are pretty expensive as soon as there's dye here, too.

[HthrRsln]

I've done 12 sessions of laser in 1 year's time ... not to bad on the pain and really quick. ... I've switched to electrolysis and it hurts way more than laser ... but I can only handle an hour at a time.

I struggle with the pain too. Several things that do seem to help:

1)  My electrologist told me to get super-hydrated in the hours before treatment, on the principle that the treatment works faster since you become more conductive. Since I've been drinking a full liter in the several hours before, it does seem to help.

2)  Take four extra strength Advil a couple hours before.

3)  Half an hour before, drink two double scotch! My electrologist keeps kidding me about "where's mine?" So I may shock her and bring the bottle one day, as a joke.

YMMV, but with all three of these things, electrolysis actually approaches being downright tolerable. :-)

[A]

Lol. I don't think I can handle four extra-strength Advil, and I seriously doubt my throat can survive scotch. And that I can retain lucidity with such an amount of alcohol. The equivalent of two beers, dissolved in soda (no, it was not actually beer), while eating and over 3 hours was more than enough to get me saying stupid and mean stuff, and to feel awful, while clouding my memories of the event. That would be assuming I owned alcohol.

I think I'll go with two normal Advils and the water. Thanks anyway! xD

[Carlita]

Pity you're not in the UK I happen to know someone who is very reasonably priced

I, on the other hand, am in the UK!  I'm on the South Coast. Where are you? PM, maybe?

[Ms.Behavin]

$60 an hour at least on the west coast is a really good price.  here the  standard price is $75, the discount price is $60. Generally 2 hours is all a good electrologist will want to do in a week, as its really hard on the skin and more increases scaring risk.  Figure $8k to $12K for electro to clear the face even after laser.  I found that after 2 years the laser dark hair came back anyway.

I went full time spring of 2007, but just finished electro a few months ago.  I did it every two weeks and then once a month as I saved money.   Its generally a really slow process.

I think most electrologists will be happy to have as many MtF clients as they can get.

[A]

2 hours a week... That won't be enough. Besides, I don't understand why. Unlike laser, electrolysis only affects follicles hit locally, right? So unless you've done every follicle in the face and go back to do some twice (Oo), I really don't see what barrier other than schedule, fatigue and money there can be... >.<"

Also, my mother called her aesthetician for me. She's cheap to begin with (my mother told me she was there for an hour and a half a few days ago, doing waxing and a little bit of electrolysis, and she paid 40 $ or so for everything). And she may do me a discount on top, because she's known my mother for 15 years and knows I'm a student and will probably need lots of it.

I hope she'll allow me to do more than 2 hours a week. I want it to be as fast as possible. Going slowly isn't needed money-wise, anyway, since my income is super low, and I'll be paying most of it out of savings. I know I can't be fully done right away, but if I could be done with the bulk of it, only needing to return for the "rising dead", by this summer, before I start school again in August, that would be good.

She's been doing this for many years, which isn't a guarantee, but it's much better than nothing. My mother assures me she's great. I won't take her word so easily, though, so what should I do to assess how good of a choice she is?

For example, when I ask what kind of machine she has, what's a "good answer"?

She gave me an appointment for an evaluation on January 31st. That should be enough time (2 weeks) after laser to assess okay, but it's a pity that it's too soon to have her do a test spot or something.

Or perhaps, if she has time, I could ask her to do a little bit in the space between my eyebrows, which would at least show me how much/whether she plucks. And I've always wanted to have that annoying spot done.

[Elspeth]

2 hours a week... That won't be enough. Besides, I don't understand why. Unlike laser, electrolysis only affects follicles hit locally, right? So unless you've done every follicle in the face and go back to do some twice (Oo), I really don't see what barrier other than schedule, fatigue and money there can be... >.<"

Skin damage and potential scarring are the concerns I've heard.

You're talking about electrical current passing through the follicle. While the cellular damage may be concentrated there, the follicles are all within the skin itself. Some damage is done to nearby cells, inevitably. No process is going to be completely isolated to the specific cells and structures that it's aiming to destroy and kill, both in term of the existing cells and whatever within the skin serves to regenerate new cells and structures of that kind.

[A]

I'm not sure I get it. Do you mean that if you damage a lot of places in the face, its total regenerative ability is hindered?

[Elspeth]

I'm not sure I get it. Do you mean that if you damage a lot of places in the face, its total regenerative ability is hindered?

I mean electrolysis is something akin to a controlled burning. In fact, depending on the modality used, it is either a chemical burn (galvanic mode) or burning by overheating the cells ((thermolysis). The blended method is both.

Electrolysis treatments almost certainly are going to lead to some scarring (imperceptible if done carefully). I'm inferring some of this from a basic knowledge of medicine I got second-hand when my ex was in med school, not from direct experience, since I'm only about to start electro myself. There may be details I've missed.

But the concern I've heard over and over from those who've had electro is that no one who is responsible and professional will do it that fast-paced, because your skin needs time to heal after each session, or you're likely to pile damage on top of damage and leave more permanent marks that will affect the overall health and long term appearance of the areas being treated. Discoloration is one of the things you'll be warned about when researching electrolysis in general. This would only increase in likelihood if areas were not given some time to recover before starting in again. 

I would think the risk is greater in male-type beard areas, where the follicles are particularly dense and different in nature from most other hair elsewhere on the body, which is the kind  that electrolysists may see a bit more often, with their cisgendered clients, who are usually female, and looking to obliterate somewhat less resistant follicles, or treat smaller areas of concentrated growth.