Advice needed for breast growth

[mikidiki]

Hi there,

I am new to this forum so I am unsure if I am allowed to mention brand names and mg so in case I am not allowed I won't. I was on a relatively low dose of estrogen and I was getting no breast growth. I increased by 1mg and my breasts started growing very rapidly (a little too rapidly) so I cut back down and the nodule completely diminished and went back to normal (I only descreased for about 2 months). I increased it again to the dosage I was on that caused the breast growth but nothing happened - was on that dosage for 1 year, nothing was happening. So I increased it by another mg - still nothing - it's as though no matter what I do I am now I am unable to get any breast growth.

I am not on anything else except estrogen and don't wish to be on any anti-angrogens. Does anyone know why this is happening and what I can do as I am completely confused. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

[kelly_aus]

I'm guessing that you are self-medding - that is not something we discuss here. 

Knowing what your various levels are based on your blood work would be handy.

[Cindy]

You are playing russian roulette with your health.

You need to get a medic  and an endocrinologist to look after you. Playing with hormones is a very good way of permanently damaging your health.

[Jamie D]

Yeah, mikidiki, we don't condone or encourage self-med'ing on this site.  It is a dangerous practice.  We recently had one member develop a deep vein thrombosis, and now is off all HRT.

It is important, also, to have your hormone levels regularly checked by a lab, to make sure you are not ruining your liver, that your electrolyte levels are all within normal parameters, and to have competent medical supervision.

This is from the Terms of Service which you agreed to follow when you signed up.  Please read the rest of them.

8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:

    A. You may not advocate for or against a specific medication or combinations of medication for personal gain. This is strictly prohibited.
    B. You may not discuss the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription. The discussion of self medication without a doctors supervision is prohibited.
    C. The discussion of recommended or actual dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.

We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision.

[mikidiki]

I understand but I guess all I wanted was some advice if others might have experienced the same thing I have.

[Cindy]

I understand but I guess all I wanted was some advice if others might have experienced the same thing I have.

But honey the reason you are having strange boob growth cycles is that your hormone regime is totally wrong.

We are individuals, it took months to get me on the right mixture and doses. I had reactions to some forms of E  and it took work to find the right ones for me. I'm sure you know the symptoms of E toxicity
You probably have not a clue what your SHBG levels are? Without that you are just playing. Do you know your resting T level? Has it dropped, has stayed the same? Do you need AAs? If so which ?

What is your GGT? what was it before you started E? If it has increased has AST gone up as well?  What are your Vit D levels? Why is that important?

My endo has been practising gynaecological endocrinology for 30+ years. She had problems working me out.

What on earth good would it be to say others have or have not the same experiences? There is nothing you could do about it.

Find a medic to help you before you harm yourself.

Please.

Cindy

[Catherine Sarah]

You are playing russian roulette with your health.

You need to get a medic  and an endocrinologist to look after you. Playing with hormones is a very good way of permanently damaging your health.

But honey the reason you are having strange boob growth cycles is that your hormone regime is totally wrong.

We are individuals, it took months to get me on the right mixture and doses. I had reactions to some forms of E  and it took work to find the right ones for me. I'm sure you know the symptoms of E toxicity
You probably have not a clue what your SHBG levels are? Without that you are just playing. Do you know your resting T level? Has it dropped, has stayed the same? Do you need AAs? If so which ?

What is your GGT? what was it before you started E? If it has increased has AST gone up as well?  What are your Vit D levels? Why is that important?

My endo has been practising gynaecological endocrinology for 30+ years. She had problems working me out.

What on earth good would it be to say others have or have not the same experiences? There is nothing you could do about it.

Find a medic to help you before you harm yourself.

Please.

Cindy

  ^^^^^^^^ all of the above, please. For your own health and wellbeing.

Huggs
Catherine

[Kelly J. P.]

 Well, I have no idea how much estrogen you're taking, but hopefully you're not exceeding the guidelines most doctors are supposed to follow; they're there for a reason. If you want to get good hormone results, though, then I would suggest that you take spironolactone or another androgen blocker to supplement your estrogen - again, not exceeding guidelines. I know you said you don't want to take androgen blockers, but it's an essential part of HRT if you aren't castrated. It helps the feminizing process, and it effectively reduces the risks inherent in taking tons of estrogen alone.

If you have to self-medicate, it's important to get your blood tested. Raising your hormone intake blindly is an incredible risk to your health, as has been said multiple times in this thread already.

Honestly, you could probably get a doctor to help you out with all this. There might not be a knowledgeable doctor in your area, but they don't have to know much about HRT to make sure your blood tests look healthy enough. I'm in a bit of a similar situation, where all doctors within quite a large radius are relatively new at administrating HRT, but at least I know what I'm doing is safe.

Other than that, there's not much to say, besides saying that while guidelines are helpful to follow... with how individual everyone's response is to hormones, to follow them alone is only a guided shot into the dark.

I hope you'll ensure your safety. If this is a do-or-die thing for you, then I hope it doesn't come to the dying part, and if waiting to do things safely puts you at great risk of suicide, then I hope it all works out for you. If suicide isn't much of a concern, here, then you are recklessly endangering yourself for vanity's sake - and if that's so, then I hope you re-examine your motivation, and re-evaluate the risks and rewards of what you're doing. Vanity isn't worth playing with your life over.

You've reached the limit of how fast a blind man can run. Don't gamble on not hitting something as you quicken your pace further.

I understand but I guess all I wanted was some advice if others might have experienced the same thing I have.

Well, we can't talk about self-medding here. Even if someone did have the same experience as you, they wouldn't be allowed to say anything. A person's health takes priority over all else, after all.

[mikidiki]

I appreciate everyone's responses and no, I am definitely not exceeding the guidelines, in fact I am considerably under. I do get my hormones prescribed but the doctor does not know anything about it. I have had my bloods tested not that long ago and everything was ok. It just bothers me that things were going ok and I chose to cut down but now when I go back to the original dosage (and even higher) my breasts just don't want to grow! It's as though my body is saying "You had your chance and you chose to cut down so I'm not letting your breasts grow no matter how much estrogen you take"

[Annah]

if your doctor does not know anything about it then how are you getting prescriptions?

[LilDevilOfPrada]

The solution is simple, do it the proper way ... go to a endo. If you self med and die even life insurance wont pay out to your family, even if you get any bad effects insurance wont play because of what your doing.

Its simple stop risking your like and go find a endo.

[mikidiki]

if your doctor does not know anything about it then how are you getting prescriptions?

He just prescribes the hormones I ask him to.

Yes, I will see an endo

[Jamie D]

I am happy to hear, mikidiki, that you are under some sort of medical care.

Getting your various hormone, enzyme, and blood chemistry levels checked regularly is very important.  I do it every three months, but I have other medical issues going on.

With that said, regarding breast growth, there appears not to be a direct relationship between breast growth on HRT and your dosage.  The old adage is - "Your mileage may vary."  Things like that can go in spurts.

[spacial]

Which country are you in?

[Kelly J. P.]

 Well, as long as you are getting your blood tested, and you can confidently ensure your safety, you're good. Your dose should be tailored to put your E and T levels within appropriate ranges - the doses you take should not exceed guidelines, but as long as you are under them, the doses only matter for what they do to your levels.

If your levels are in the female-typical range, then you can't really expect more than you're getting. An endo might know a little more, or might see something you don't/can't, but I suppose that doesn't matter at this point. If you aren't in that range, then you'll need to up your estrogen within safe levels to get there - and you'll probably need to add spiro to get the appropriate result.

I can't say anything specific, of course, but there's no harm in reiterating common sense. I haven't had much breast growth to speak of at all in my two years, so I don't have much experience with your situation.

[kelly_aus]

I feel I should add that great growth is also heavily dependant on factors other than just E level.. Oh, and without an anti-androgen you will always be fighting an uphill battle..

[mikidiki]

It's very awkward not being able to mention dosages. I find it frustrating that it's a forum yet you can't get advice if people don't know the full story. Is there any way I can at least mention the mg so I can make 100% I am not over the limit?

Anyway.......I live in Australia. The original doctor I spoke to who deals with gay/transgender health was not willing to even talk to me unless I'm living as a female 24/7 for a full year so he was no help whatsoever. I then went to my local GP who knew absolutely nothing about it said that I am a trial patient and he is happy to prescribe me what I want as long as I am aware that he knows nothing about it and the risks of taking estrogen. In all honesty, he didn't even know if there were any risks in estrogen for males. Originally I was "self medicating" but I wanted to do the right thing and see my GP but in a way I am still "self medicating" because he has no idea.  He wrote out a referral to an endo for me but not long after when I increased to the dosage that caused my breasts to grow I did not bother following it up with an endo (my referall has since lapsed). I am going back to get another referral. However as previously mentioned I am now flat chested on the dosage I was on that originally caused my breasts to grow.

Going by lots of websites the recommended dosages do differ but by the majority of websites I am under the recommended dosage per day. I have tried anti-androgen in the past but I did not like the effects as it completely decreased by sex drive. Strangely though the estrogen has increased my sex drive - not sure if that's normal or not but that doesn't bother me lol.

So that's my story.

[Flan]

It's very awkward not being able to mention dosages. I find it frustrating that it's a forum yet you can't get advice if people don't know the full story. Is there any way I can at least mention the mg so I can make 100% I am not over the limit?

Short answer: no.

[kelly_aus]

It's very awkward not being able to mention dosages. I find it frustrating that it's a forum yet you can't get advice if people don't know the full story. Is there any way I can at least mention the mg so I can make 100% I am not over the limit?

The restriction on dosage info is to prevent people from using that info to self med - something that can be very dangerous, something one of the members here recently discovered. DVT is no fun - and can mean the end of any hormones at all.

Anyway.......I live in Australia. The original doctor I spoke to who deals with gay/transgender health was not willing to even talk to me unless I'm living as a female 24/7 for a full year so he was no help whatsoever. I then went to my local GP who knew absolutely nothing about it said that I am a trial patient and he is happy to prescribe me what I want as long as I am aware that he knows nothing about it and the risks of taking estrogen. In all honesty, he didn't even know if there were any risks in estrogen for males. Originally I was "self medicating" but I wanted to do the right thing and see my GP but in a way I am still "self medicating" because he has no idea.  He wrote out a referral to an endo for me but not long after when I increased to the dosage that caused my breasts to grow I did not bother following it up with an endo (my referall has since lapsed). I am going back to get another referral. However as previously mentioned I am now flat chested on the dosage I was on that originally caused my breasts to grow.

I'm not sure where in Australia you are, but there are plenty of therapists and doctors around who follow the WPATH Standards of Care.. There's really no excuse for self-medding here in Australia. Both my therapist and gyno are members of ANZPATH (Aus & NZ Professional Association of Trans Health) and are also members of WPATH (World Professional Association of Trans Health). I'm in Adelaide. I know of similar services being available in most states. Your GP is also acting in a manner that in contrary to AMA guidelines.. Heck, I know a gyno in Melbourne who is willing to treat me should I ever move back there.

Now, as far as breast growth is concerned.. I am under the care of an experienced medical professional. I've been on E for about 20 months and was on an anti-androgen for the first year - I had some issues with it and had to stop taking it. My E levels are within the norms for a woman. My T level is way below the norms for a woman. My gyno is generally happy with my other results - things like LFT, FSH, SHBG etc, etc.. And after all that, I still have less than a AA cup. The women in my family are generally large breasted. I've had plenty of other physical changes, just not much in the way of boobs. You may never get particularly large boobs - just like some natal women never have much.. Diet, genetics, hormone receptivity are all factors that come in to play.

Going by lots of websites the recommended dosages do differ but by the majority of websites I am under the recommended dosage per day. I have tried anti-androgen in the past but I did not like the effects as it completely decreased by sex drive. Strangely though the estrogen has increased my sex drive - not sure if that's normal or not but that doesn't bother me lol.

So that's my story.

It's good that you have noticed the differences between the various websites.. There's a reason there is such variation - HRT is something that is highly dependant on the person. Some things work for some and not for others.. I was on oral E.. It started off fine, but then my E level started a slow, steady decline - which we caught before it got too low. I'm now on an alternate delivery method, which is working even better than the oral delivery - and no, it's not shots..

[AusBelle]

You really need to find a proper doctor/endo to look after you.  There are plenty around.  Where in Australia are you?  I'm in Qld.