Potential employers don't contact me after meeting me

[Dan G.]

I dress very professionally, take out all of my piercings, everything in my power to look presentable. They love me over the phone, I'm polite, I'm charming etc. But when I show up to meet them, they look at my name, and the gender on the application, and after I'm gone, they never contact me again. What's up with that??

What happened to equal-opportunity employment with no gender identity bias?

[Rena-san]

Yeah, I've had that same problem. I don't think theres much we can do about it. I had applied at a grocery store. Lady interviewed me and afterwards she said she'd contact me in a week whether I got it or not, just to let me know. Two weeks, she still had contacted me. I called her and it went to voicemail. I left a message and she never called me back. I don't think theres anything to be done. We can't prove that they're doing anything because of our gender. Maybe someone else will have some ideas.

[Misato]

I heard someone say, "The hardest job you'll have is looking for a job." and that is SO true in my experience.  And its only gotten worse since the 90's in my view.  Computer systems now look for keywords on resumes.  Mind you, these computer systems are written by people and I would not be surprised if the authors never considered the transgender situation so when say the gender marker changes in some search, boom, exception CRASH! No results returned.

My partner looking for work had the same, "Don't call us, we'll call you" crap doled out at her and her would-be employers didn't know a thing about me.

Now, I've said dumb things in interviews.  I thought I was a lock for a job at Apple HQ in 2004, I was actually writing my resignation letter to my then current employer at the San Jose Airport!  Fortunately, I got the rejection before I delivered it (I was that confident).  I didn't talk about gender then but after a great deal of reflection, cause darn that one hurt so I went over it again and again in my head, I did say a lot of stupid things I didn't realize right away.

OH!  That still hurts to re-live!

From my failures, and there are others I'd prefer not to recount at the moment, I hope to be able to maintain confidence that the jobs I don't get in the future will have nothing to do with my gender situation and more to do with crappy algorithms and mistakes I make in the heat of a interviewing moment.  I'll probably wonder if gender plays a role, but I'd rather believe that on the whole people are good, fair and don't care about my gender as long as I or any trans person can do the job.  If I don't believe that, I'm worried I'll get bitter and make getting a job harder still.

[Zumbagirl]

Speaking from the manager perspective, I can honestly say that very very few people have the courage to ask how they did in an interview and seek feedback. Also very few people ask about the workplace, typical work week or show interest beyond trying to peddle their skills. Interviewing is a give and take and sometimes I feel like I am pulling teeth trying to get an idea of truly interested people are in the job. If the question isn't asked then volunteer the question. Being a good interviewee is quite a task.

Some times if I interview a candidate I am looking for something specific and if I don't see it, the person won't get the job even though they might seem completely qualified.

As far as resume scraping (keywords on resumes), bad recruiters scrape resume boards and good recruiters look at a person much more holistically. 90% of all jobs are not done through resume boards,newspapers, etc but personal contacts. Those outlets are just black holes to make resumes disappear.

[Cindy]

I also interview a lot of people.  Most jobs I'm interviewing for have 70-100 applicants. Usually I will interview 4. How do you get to the four?

I look for reasons to reject. Most people I reject on the cover letter. Illiterate, applying for the wrong job ( not uncommon), not spelling my name correctly, getting the application number incorrect. Too long, too short. Irrelevant stuff.

Resume.

Is it true? All resumes are padded, that's fine, but is it true?

Has it been a formula resume. I hate them. Keywords, I hate them.

If you can't write your own resume don't apply to me for a job. I have them, perfect resume and the personality of a plaster cast, the two don't match, reject straight away.

Job record, why are there gaps? Explain. I know it is a tough world and jobs are short. Did you sit on your ass for a year or did you do some volunteer work. Are you happy watching day time TV? If so, I don't want you. You stayed at home and looked after the children, fine, what else did you do? Go to mother or dads groups? join a bookclub with the other parents. What? tell me

Referees, who are they and how do they relate to the job record.

Interview.

Neatly dressed and presented. Having washed in the recent past is good (sorry ).

I ask basically the same questions to each candidate, I have a minimum of three people on the panel. We take notes and I warn the candidate that we will write as we talk.

For basic positions they questions are so standard that they are on the internet. Be aware of them and practice them.

Be confident, if you are scared, tell the panel, nothing wrong with that.

Do your research, know job and the company and the requirements. RESEARCH I'll do it too you. I will check your facebook.  If you never get interviews look at your media profile. You made it.

I'm pretty sure Zumbagirl and I don't care about your gender ID. In the past I have failed a Gay guy who was so flamboyant that there was no way he would fit into my teams. He, I think, was trying to be noticed as a special, care free worldly guy. He came over as a ->-bleeped-<-.
I have refused a person for tattoos. He had swastikas  and love/hate tats that were visible (obviously) he seemed very very pleasant and cultured. I wouldn't feel safe to have him with my young female staff or my overseas staff and students. Discrimination? Yes; his problem.

I had a "Christian' who started to 'speak' in tongues. Interesting, no thanks you may lose the plot when you are supposed to be doing your job.

TG and Gay etc people in general. I don't ask for peoples gender or sexual preference or anything. One it doesn't matter to me, secondly in my country it is against the law.

But some people volunteer stuff, why? I'm not interested, the panel isn't interested and all of a sudden there is a negative mark. Why? the person is caught up in their own issues that has no relevancy to me. They are distracted, forget them.

Have questions for the panel. If you don't it suggests you are not interested.

A nice one from the other week that hit all of my buttons, and got the person the job. "Can you tell me what I will be doing in some detail on a normal day in the job". Loved it. Put me back on my heels, they took command, they had a brain, they were keen. And they listened to the answer and asked questions and not the 'Ask a question and let the eyes glaze over' performance.

Feed back.

Very very rare.

Sorry

Cindy

[Zumbagirl]

A nice one from the other week that hit all of my buttons, and got the person the job. "Can you tell me what I will be doing in some detail on a normal day in the job". Loved it. Put me back on my heels, they took command, they had a brain, they were keen. And they listened to the answer and asked questions and not the 'Ask a question and let the eyes glaze over' performance

Cindy

There you go right there, showing interest. I work in IT and have to interview people for 6 figure jobs. You would be utterly surprised at the sheer number of chuckleheads at that level. People whose entire first page of their résumé is just keywords. I had to complain about recruiting and tell them to stop searching on keywords.

Being TG is not an obstacle in a work life unless you want it to be or working in a store selling bibles or something. Remember I am a TG person too so I can empathize.

I had a similar scenario when I first went full time and I needed a job. I got my fair share of doors slammed in my face so I can relate. I simply crossed that place off and said who wants to work for those jerks anyways (actually I used stronger language). I got my next job through a connection from a prior boss, not monster, dice, newspapers anything. I pursued the referral with vigor, stopped acting like a victim and 2 weeks later I had my first job as a woman. The rest is history


Reformatted broken quotation

[Shantel]

I shared this in an email session with one of our people here not long ago.

In my past working life I have run and managed several different companies and have worn a lot of hats. I am going to give you a head's up on what perspective employers and HR people are looking for. This should give you an edge in your hunt for meaningful employment.
       Most people trying to hustle a job always make the mistake of making it all about them. The HR people pick up on this right away, they are notoriously cold hearted and ill-mannered often playing god at your expense and seldom even respond to your resume. Let's discuss the resume first; keep it brief and BS free. They are lazy and won't read a lengthy, flowery resume. The best comment you can make on a resume is that you are interested in being a profitable asset to an employer's business. The best thing I can do here is give you an example by sharing my own experience several years ago.
       I live in the Seattle area and back in the early 1970's there was a major regional downturn in the economy, Boeing was the only big employer in town then and most other company's economy was connected to how Boeing was doing. I was fresh out of the army and had worked as a house framer until I was laid off. Someone gave me a tip that there was a delivery company in town that might be hiring a delivery driver. I walked in the door of their terminal with a map book in my hand, a sack lunch and a hand-truck and found the supervisor. He had just taken an application from two guys and put them in a drawer with several hundred other completed applications and told them that he would call them if he needed any help. His attitude and body language told me that he was a real jerk. He asked me what I wanted and I told him that I was ready to go to work. He gave me an application which I filled out and as he was putting it in the drawer with the others, I told him that I wasn't there just to satisfy some kind of unemployment ritual and that I was ready to start right away and knew the city and county streets and roads well. He said, "What will you do for me?" He really was saying what makes you so special that I should take a chance and hire you? I told him that I would give him two days work for free and if I'm not cutting it he can let me go and won't be out any money over it. I worked there for eleven years before I moved on to something better.
     The point is you don't want to tell them I need a job, they already know that and don't care. What you want to tell them is that you are interested in their company and feel that you can be a positive asset and eventually be able to increase their profitability. You have to sell them on yourself and not come across as just another piece of needy dead wood. Present yourself as an energetic, perky and positive type. You follow that game plan and it will put you light years ahead of your competition, good hunting!

[Beth Andrea]

I thought it was illegal (according to Fed law) to ask about gender and age?

Also, if you apply, they seem very happy with you, meet you, then do not contact you again...that would be grounds for a discrimination complaint.

The idea was created during the early days of Affirmative Action...if a black person applied, met all the requirements but was not hired...and there was an exceptionally low number of blacks working there (relative to the local population, although the word "quota" is not used) that is considered proof of discrimination. The only defense for the company is to hire an appropriate number of the "protected class".

Right now, the list doesn't include trans, but I suspect that is changing...and one of the better ways of spesding the process is to insist we deserve it.

Because we do!

Good luck!

[Brooke777]

I have interviewed for many jobs prior to transition. I will be a great candidate and really fit in with the group. However, there is just something about me that doesn't fit in. That's fine, they need to be happy with who they hire. Many times they say they will let me know either way, but they don't. I don't take this personally. They are often very busy people and some things just slip their mind. It has nothing to do with me.

[Cindy]

Failing to tell people about not getting the job.

Can I give a brief explanation?

Most of my positions are applied through electronic media, I have no choice I have to use the program that the company is committed to.

Most responses on it are pre-programmed, the places for individual text are limited. It is basically click a box and hit send. It is very impersonal and I don't like it, but I have no choice. I do have phone calls from failed candidates and I always discuss the interview etc with them on the phone call, I will give advice if asked for it. I personally feel that it is the correct thing to do. But I rarely have time to phone them.

[Zumbagirl]

It's so easy today to find out people who work in a company from places like linked in. Try using something like that instead of the black holes. I tried a strategy a long time ago that I have to be serious actually worked. I wrote letters directly to the CEO of companies where I wanted to work and explained what kind of person I am. Within a few days I had interviews at all of the companies. Just a thought and for the record I tried this after my transition not before.

[Shantel]

It's so easy today to find out people who work in a company from places like linked in. Try using something like that instead of the black holes. I tried a strategy a long time ago that I have to be serious actually worked. I wrote letters directly to the CEO of companies where I wanted to work and explained what kind of person I am. Within a few days I had interviews at all of the companies. Just a thought and for the record I tried this after my transition not before.

Good plan Zumbagirl! An end run around the HR people is the best way to get noticed and though the HR staff resent it, a CEO would think that it shows bold initiative!

[Sarah Louise]

Most letters for employment that were sent directly to the CEO of a company would most likely get rerouted to HR by the CEO's secretary.

[Zumbagirl]

I'll just say that I got interviews at every one of the companies I did this with. I think the trick is having a really good cover letter since that is pretty much all that would be read. It may have gone to hr, but it sure opened the door in a hurry. It just takes the guts to try it

[Alainaluvsu]

Being TG is not an obstacle in a work life unless you want it to be or working in a store selling bibles or something.

I totally agree. Never let them see it as something that needs to be talked about, because that's negative weight. If they know, act like it doesn't matter and that's the best thing you can do for yourself (and other transsexuals).

[opheliaxen]

I'm pretty sure Zumbagirl and I don't care about your gender ID. In the past I have failed a Gay guy who was so flamboyant that there was no way he would fit into my teams. He, I think, was trying to be noticed as a special, care free worldly guy. He came over as a ->-bleeped-<-.

That's messed up.  You didn't hire him because he was too "flamboyant" for your team?

Diversity makes for a stronger workplace.

As for whether there is discrimination or not I think when you look at Transgender employment rates it is clear that there is.

Which is a shame because we are just people.

[Cindy]

That's messed up.  You didn't hire him because he was too "flamboyant" for your team?

Diversity makes for a stronger workplace.

As for whether there is discrimination or not I think when you look at Transgender employment rates it is clear that there is.

Which is a shame because we are just people.

I need people who are capable at working as a team, not a solo player. I like personality as much or more than most but if someone goes out of their way to demonstrate that they are not a team player at a job interview then they are showing me potential problems for the future. I don't need those problems. In the case mentioned it was obvious that the person was very interested in self and not others. I had no room for him in that position.
I think you are making an assumption that people have a right to a job no matter how they present at interview. You are wrong, the employer is the person employing and makes the selection based on who is going to be the best fit.

[Arch]

Burento, you haven't actually said how you look or what your legal sex is...and when you talk to people over the phone, do you not give them your name? Is it casual or more like a phone interview?

I work in academe, so things are a bit different. The uni where I work is very queer-friendly. That's where I transitioned, and nobody treats me like I'm anything unusual. That, in and of itself, can be quite weird because I'm apparently the only one who ever thinks "Arch is a freak." My transition was very anticlimactic, but I was well established there.

The community college where I work is more conservative, but staff and faculty are pretty open, and the college itself has official pro-queer policies and resources. However, I applied there after transition, and nobody ever sees me as anything but male.

Do you live in a large city? Do you research each company's official stance on LGBT issues? Many national companies publish this stuff online where anyone can access it. Maybe you're living in too small a community, or maybe you've been applying to some conservative companies. What kinds of jobs are you applying for? If public contact is required, the companies might be worried about their image if you are legally female but come across as very butch. But I'm just guessing here. And it might not be gender-related.

[opheliaxen]

I need people who are capable at working as a team, not a solo player. I like personality as much or more than most but if someone goes out of their way to demonstrate that they are not a team player at a job interview then they are showing me potential problems for the future. I don't need those problems. In the case mentioned it was obvious that the person was very interested in self and not others. I had no room for him in that position.
I think you are making an assumption that people have a right to a job no matter how they present at interview. You are wrong, the employer is the person employing and makes the selection based on who is going to be the best fit.

I think sometimes you have to look past cultural differences that make you uncomfortable to assess real value.   Known many "flamboyant" characters who have also been terrific at their job.  Thank goodness they were given the opportunity and not written off.

[Cindy]

You miss my intent completely. In the case of debate case I needed a person to do a particular job in a particular environment. That person needed to fit into a team to do the job. If a person wants that job they have to convince me that they are capable of doing the job and fitting in to the team. If they cannot do that they will not get employed.

The background of the thread was how to get employed.

Simply, no matter my personal feelings, if a person, in my belief, will not fit in then they will not get the job.

Interestingly,  you have focussed on the flamboyant character and have not mentioned the person with suspicious tattoos.  That person was very focussed and very aware of himself and very driven. He had all the boxes ticked except for raising my concerns about intolerance. The flamboyant one appeared far more interested in self promotion than being driven to do the job.

Why do you discriminate between them?

I know why I did; so who would you employ, or would you move on to another candidate?