Oh God, I never stopped to think about this much until now...

[Cassandra Hyacinth]

OK, so I'm not out in any capacity yet. The closest I come to presenting in a feminine way is the occasional pink item of clothing and hair that vaguely resembles a pixie cut. But for the most part, I don't particularly care about mostly wearing jeans and T-shirts, since after all, plenty of women wear that frequently, so why can't I?

Now, I'm in my second year at university, where that sort of clothing can be worn pretty much all the time. BUT... once I leave university, that's when the problem starts. Now, the job searching will no doubt be horrible enough - I've had three or four interviews for paid jobs in my life, and not one of them led to being offered the job (especially annoying since I'm not even sure what went wrong - I thought I did OK!  ), and of course many don't even acknowledge your application at all. So yeah, not looking forward to that so much.

But that isn't the worst part.

The worst part is that I'm most likely going to have to wear a suit, not just to interviews, but also if/when I actually somehow get a job. That means wearing it almost every day, for almost the entire day. Now, the discomfort is bad in and of itself, but the worst part is that there's no 'gender-neutral' pretenses there - it's unambiguously male-coded, and there's no escaping from it. In other words, I'll actually have to face up to the idea of being seen as male for my whole life.

And presenting as female while looking for jobs would only decrease my already slim chances.

Honestly, I'm not even sure I want a graduate job. I always thought I did, but right now I'm thinking basically anything that would pay the bills would probably do me fine. I mean, I already know I never want children, and ideally I don't particularly fancy having to drive a car either. As for leisure stuff, pretty much an internet connection + something to browse said internet with would be a good chunk of it.

In an ideal world, I'd really rather just find a job that allows me an existence independent of parents (which is looking like an ever slim chance), effectively disappear for about 3-4 years or so, then come back as my true self and act as though it had always been that way. *sigh*

[HeatherR]

 


Put out hundreds of apps and the job interviews will roll in by the dozens.  Pick and choose at your will.

[A]

HeatherR:

Applications made in my life: 2-300
Total number of interviews: 10
Total number of jobs/trainings: 5
Total number of jobs/trainings that lasted/ended well: 1-ish, but she hasn't called me back to work for another term, so I can assume she was not satisfied. Others I was mostly fired more or less quickly, or finished the summer job in a bad-ish situation where it felt like they would've fired me if it weren't a summer job and summer wasn't reaching its end.

I don't want to be depressing, but I've found that going all smiley "I can do it!" doesn't exactly do good. FYI, I'm bilingual and have done volunteering. Oh, and my résumé, calls, interview techniques and letter of introduction were verified and praised by job search specialists.

Cassandra Hyacinth: I feel your pain. You know, transitioning in the workplace seems much, much harder to me than transitioning at school. Your boss doesn't -have- to accept you. And you're much more... visible... than at school. I used to be super scared of the "in-between" stage as well, but with some reassuring from my best friend and time, as it grows closer, it's not so bad at all. I find I find it much better to be "the gay/girly guy/person of ambiguous gender/->-bleeped-<-" than to be "a guy".

That's why I would suggest to try to accelerate the process, before you have to do it while you're into a career, which complicates everything.

Also, I don't know of any profession, short of those who have to wear a uniform, in which you're forced into such a strict clothing code that nothing but a suit will do. I really doubt so many employers will not accept a chic outfit that's not a suit. If worse comes to worse, there are always chic options for males that are formal yet not so MALE. I'm zero an expert, but there's always :

-Coloured button-up shirt, without a tie, with a more standard bottom.
-Fancy wool shirts
-Those tank tops worn over a button-up shirt
-I've seen men wear tops similar to those seen in some ladies' suits, where the second layer has shorter sleeves, and the bottom layer's longer sleeves are unbuttoned and let loose over the shorter sleeves.

But really, the less deep you are in mud, the easier it is to transition. The sooner you do it, the better. Once you get a career, it's harder. You're at a stage where you depend on your job, and any intolerant employer could put you in a very dangerous situation. But while you're young and not "cased in", you can still transition and only have society to fight. Well, it can be a big chunk, but not nearly as big as what you can face later on.

[Misato]

First, good luck with your studies Cassandra.

Second, I've had a lot of different jobs and gone on a lot of interviews.  Three or four unsuccessful interviews are nothing to stress over.

I will say I found College a good time to experiment, but I cannot advocate rushing or hurrying.  If you make it into your career before you are ready to transition, you make it into your career.  Since many of us have transitioned sometimes well into our careers, and here's some more good news , I don't think there is any reason to worry that you'll be stuck being seen as a male your whole life.  I am very confident you will find a way to remedy that successfully when the time comes.

The important thing to do now is get comfortable and secure in the knowledge of yourself.  Transition is a hard road, transition is a long road, as I'm willing to bet you've gathered.  But your identity is your canteen for the trip and it allows you to refresh yourself when traveling the road wears you out.

[Alainaluvsu]

The fact is that it's harder to get a job as a girl. I can put in tons of resumes but lots of people will just see a female name and throw it aside. Every cis girl I've ever talked to pretty much agrees with that.

That said, it's not hopeless. I've had 3 interviews as a female and all of them seemed to want to hire me. Only one didn't offer me the position because they thought I wasn't experienced enough for it  (yes I truly believe this is what they thought). I've been told I interview very well by 2 of the interviewers. My current employers know I'm trans (through my references outing me) but they absolutely love me. In fact I'm still around and they've let go of most of their original hires. Furthermore they put me in a position where I actually deal with people on something as important as their taxes. Don't let being trans get you down... don't even mention it unless they ask about it. If they do ask about it, act as if being trans never comes as a thought to you... as if it doesn't even have any effect in how you live your life (or work).

[A]

Alainaluvsu, I disagree with you a little here. It very much depends on the domain and where you live. Super typical example, but to show my point, girls have tons of trouble finding work as a manual, mechanical worker, whilst waiters are much, much less in demand than waitresses.

Where I live, girls have it flat-out anywhere from a little to much easier in job search in most domains that aren't typically very male. Because women are considered more reliable, and more attractive to the eye (thus more pleasing to customers), because employers want to show their non-sexism by doing reverse sexism or for whatever reason, women have it easier from my point of view.

Now this doesn't mean it's an absolute rule, but in almost every place I looked for work in, I had a strong impression that women were preferred. Exceptions might be all the manual and mechanical jobs, technical computer stuff and programming and jobs in which the employer expects aggressivity and disrespect (commission-paid sales).

In job search, I was even told, once, "I can tell you when the manager will be here, but I don't think you should bother. We don't hire guys here." It was a cinema, not a naked dancer bar.

Besides, even if it's harder as a girl in Cassandra's case, I think the job insecurity that comes with transitioning while on a career counterbalances it in a way.

[Alainaluvsu]

What if we don't want to be a waitress or a store clerk making $8 / hr? Some of us need more than that....

[A]

It was just an example from my own experience. I haven't done any "real" job search yet, as in, career jobs with a diploma. But from what I've seen, if you're a guy, you can't be a secretary, it's harder to be hired in a hotel and girls will be very much preferred to you as a nurse or psychologist. Not to mention I do have some personal experience in "nope, no guys" (only once was it said textually though), whilst any "no, no girls" would be clearly a scandal and would appear in all newspapers right away. Additionally, at police school, they make it easier for girls because they want more of them. They need, I think, 65 % to pass, whilst it's 70 % for men, in some domains. And no, it's not just physical adjustments, since physical tests are adjusted to male and female standards even before that.

[Beth Andrea]

Well, it looks to me like you've learned one lesson already...

Take the time to think about things, both the good and the bad.

(I haven't changed careers in 20+ years, I was fortunate enough to find a field I LOVE LOVE LOVE and am very much in demand, making more than WA state's minimum wage. I am not qualified to do anything else, except maybe cranial bullet impact researcher...but there are very few follow-up performance evals for that position, however...)

[Cassandra Hyacinth]

I had considered the nature of transitioning during a career as opposed to beforehand. But unlike many US states, in the UK you can't legally be fired for being transgender. Now, such protections don't help much when applying for jobs (because the employer can easily find some other vague justification for not hiring you), but if you were actually in one, and had been for a while, it'd probably be more obvious whether the firing was motivated by being trans or not.

See, if I'd done paid work before, I'd probably be a bit less apprehensive about it. I feel like I should actually prove that I'm capable of gaining (and keeping) a paid job first, and going from there. (N.B. I've done volunteer work, though that's often not as impressive given that it's much easier to find than paid work)

I'm pretty sure I could bear being looked down upon by work colleagues and bosses, though. Even the t-slur doesn't bother me as much anymore. It can't be much worse than being called 'mister' and 'sir' all the time...

[Emily Aster]

What if we don't want to be a waitress or a store clerk making $8 / hr? Some of us need more than that....

I've run into more than a few IT hiring managers that would hire based on a pretty face over a good resume just to provide some eye candy to the almost entirely male team. Not sure being pined over all day every day would be something the average person could tolerate, but you can make a better than average living in the field if you can get over that.

[Zumbagirl]

I've run into more than a few IT hiring managers that would hire based on a pretty face over a good resume just to provide some eye candy to the almost entirely male team. Not sure being pined over all day every day would be something the average person could tolerate, but you can make a better than average living in the field if you can get over that.

I used to work in an IT shop where I was the only girl in the office. I had to be really thick skinned to put up with them. I think a lot of times they probably didn't know they were being sexist pigs. They also would go out of their way to be protective of me and always insisted to help me code . I would just laugh when they wouldn't listen and hey at least I got some shopping time in

[Misato]

I'm pretty sure I could bear being looked down upon by work colleagues and bosses, though. Even the t-slur doesn't bother me as much anymore.

I made similar judgments of people in my past.  I said in my group once or twice that I was worried about being a "Epithet receptacle" for the world.  However now I feel that it was out of line for me to feel this way for, what I was failing to see then was, that point of view was mine.  I was vilifying the people around me before I even met them by projecting my fear onto and into them.  I knew nothing of these people, I only knew my own fear, and because of my fear I never gave them a chance.

I cannot help but wonder if one reason trans people have a harder time finding work has more to do with our would be employers picking up on us not giving them a chance to be wonderful.  We may well, I may well have, come off like we have a chip on our shoulder, judgmental (<-- On this one I know I personally was), or that we have some other problem that would make the eight hours a work day we have to spend with our employer unpleasant/problematic for our employer.

That's in part why I advocate taking all the time needed to get secure, confident and unashamed of your identity.  Then you have a foundation to stand on when you encounter haters who are going to hate and you will no longer have the fear in yourself available to you to project onto others.  And if it's not fear, there's still something there that motivated you posit that you're going to be "looked down on" or hear the "t-slur" Cassandra.  I'm so not trying to judge you here either, as I really hope I learned my lesson on that, but I am trying to say I find your concerns about what others will do really interesting as someone who made similar mistakes in her own past.