is non-binary/non-passing transgenders bad models for the trans comunety?

[Devlyn]

It's not an issue of not wanting others to show their scars.  It's an issue of not wanting others to publicize (especially through the media) their scars and WHY they have them.

That's not opinion, it's expecting others to do the things you want them to. HTH

[wheat thins are delicious]

Are non-passing trans people bad for the trans "community"?  No, most are non-passing at one point in their life.

Are non-binary people bad for the trans "community"?  IMO, yes.

[Johe]

Then explain why. Why not non-binaries? What makes them different, truly, than any other trans-persons? What makes them such a bad influence as a representive for a community whose not specifically about FTM or MTF but gender?

I know the way the world works: there will always be someone, somewhere hating on someone for something. But why should we? We have been given the opportunity to perceive human-kind in a different light, an opportunity that could (and, IMO, should) raise empathy for our fellow beings. In this point, for all transgender alike. Non-binary or not. Passing or not. To take this a step further, empathy for humankind. No matter the fault, the differences faced, or the belief in which varies so colorfully.

It leaves me curious as to why, no matter how much we personally want to be accepted, we cannot accept others who are living along the familiar road we are traveling, have traveled?

[wheat thins are delicious]

It leaves me curious as to why, no matter how much we personally want to be accepted, we cannot accept others who are living along the familiar road we are traveling, have traveled?

No one is obligated to accept anyone else just because they share a medical condition.

[Johe]

Yes, no one is obligated, but why wouldn't you? Wouldn't it cause more harm than good by further excluding others? Wouldn't it take longer to find acceptance as a whole? Or is it the lack of a community (lack of attention, want, need, etc.), instead divided by individual acceptance? Should it be about individual acceptance, the only matter of importance be of thyself?

As a note, you still avoided the question(s).

[Darrin Scott]

No one is obligated to accept anyone else just because they share a medical condition.

No, thats true. But it sure does suck to know theres people out there that make it more difficult for people to be who they are while expecting to be accepted because of their medical condition.

[ford]

I know the way the world works: there will always be someone, somewhere hating on someone for something. But why should we? We have been given the opportunity to perceive human-kind in a different light, an opportunity that could (and, IMO, should) raise empathy for our fellow beings. In this point, for all transgender alike. Non-binary or not. Passing or not. To take this a step further, empathy for humankind. No matter the fault, the differences faced, or the belief in which varies so colorfully.

It leaves me curious as to why, no matter how much we personally want to be accepted, we cannot accept others who are living along the familiar road we are traveling, have traveled?

This is really well-said Johe.

I think about this a lot. It is idealistic, sure, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for acceptance of the infinite variations that gender expression can take. And even though our personal paths vary, I feel we should work to be understanding of other's expressions. I believe it makes the trans* community stronger, and I think that's key to helping society understand where we're coming from and acknowledge our legitimacy.

Are non-passing trans people bad for the trans "community"?  No, most are non-passing at one point in their life.

Are non-binary people bad for the trans "community"?  IMO, yes.

I would love to hear the reasoning behind your opinions too, Wheat Thins.

[wheat thins are delicious]

My view of what transsexualism is and means is different from the majority on this site.  Let's just leave it at that.

[Johe]

I'm not trying to bare down on you, Wheat, but I don't understand it. I can't see the other-side as clearly, so this is where you, or anyone, can give me some insight.

Ford, Darrin. I agree – it bites, plaintively and figuratively. The lack of acceptance in a community that should be accepting, with the common thread of living in a world that doesn't necessarily understand or want to believe in our existence can be hard to see and, not to mention, experience.

[Devlyn]

My view of what transsexualism is and means is different from the majority on this site.  Let's just leave it at that.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you're here. This is what this site stands for:

Every one is welcome at Susan's Place provided you follow a few basic rules: This site is an open support area, and is not generally sexually oriented. The purpose of this site is to provide peer support, and to provide a forum for the discussion of issues related to gender and may include Transsexualism, Transvestism, Crossdressing, or other related topics. This web site exists to offer constructive input and support.

[Edge]

In my opinion, the "played with dolls and therefore knew she was a girl" or "hated wearing dresses and therefore knew he was a boy" does more harm than good. Granted, I bristle at the idea of my gender identity being thought to be associated with something so illogical as gender roles whereas others still believe in them for reasons I cannot and do not want to fathom. My cis brother has worn dresses and played with dolls. That doesn't make him a girl. I grew up with plenty of girls who hated dresses and loved to play in the dirt. That doesn't make them boys. It is the same for us and it should be the same for us.
As for non-binary gender identities, why not? There are intersex bodies. Why not intergender brains?

[Darrin Scott]

I think childhood can play a role in why we transition, but we have to look beyond that. There's more than just I hated dolls and loved the mud or whatever. I too grew up with girls like that and know women who are very butch and do not identify as male.

I think people look to their childhood to validate their feelings now or to draw connections to make it more "legit" or whatever. "Well, I've always felt this way" kind-of thing. "Look! Here's the proof!" I don't think we need to do that. Sure, when we go see a therapist they want to know how we feel and for how long and why, but I don't feel like we need to keep explaining ourselves and I feel like trans* people do that a lot.

Pretty unrelated, but....

I don't have massive dysphoria. Yes, I have some and it does exist, but it's not overwhelming. I don't think anyone has any right to tell me I'm right or wrong for transitioning. I'm almost a year on T and don't regret it. Not one bit. These threads pop up again and again and it gets old. People, who are not doctors, giving guidelines on who and who should not transition is ridiculous. To me, this sort of goes against what Susan's is about....

[kinz]

My view of what transsexualism is and means is different from the majority on this site.  Let's just leave it at that.

here's the issue, your views are fine for you to hold up to the point where they impinge upon other people's right to self-determination with their own bodies.

so even by saying something as simple as "yes nb people are bad for the trans community" (no need for scare quotes on community cmon) you are telling people they aren't welcome

which ain't ok

[wheat thins are delicious]

here's the issue, your views are fine for you to hold up to the point where they impinge upon other people's right to self-determination with their own bodies.

so even by saying something as simple as "yes nb people are bad for the trans community" (no need for scare quotes on community cmon) you are telling people they aren't welcome

which ain't ok

Oh don't get me wrong, what people do with their own bodies is their choice and I certainly have no hold over others.  But that doesn't mean I'm obligated to agree with people's decisions.

[kinz]

Oh don't get me wrong, what people do with their own bodies is their choice and I certainly have no hold over others.  But that doesn't mean I'm obligated to agree with people's decisions.

sure, i'm just not sure why you feel obligated to comment on your opinion about their or my decisions

also see above expressing your opinion is a way of telling people they aren't welcome which still isn't ok

[Natkat]

Well let remember that this is a debatation overal general,
and I have giving 2 opinions from the start with the mind that people could answer honest what they belive.
im glad that "wheat thins are delicious" feel to share his opinion who is not as most of the posts here.
we cant really have the debating open, honest and fair without it will stick to someone.
we can cencur the chat so only one opinion is allowed but this is not what I want cause im curious what people really think not what there supose to think, and thats whats so great of freedom of speach.

however, wheat thins are delicious" it could be a bit interesting to get more into details why you got the opinion you have.

[wheat thins are delicious]

sure, i'm just not sure why you feel obligated to comment on your opinion about their or my decisions

also see above expressing your opinion is a way of telling people they aren't welcome which still isn't ok

This is what happens when you post on a public forum.  Not everyone is going to be in agreement with each other.

[AdamMLP]

Not everyone has to agree with everyone, but if you're going to say something that you know may offend some of the people that see it its fairly safe to assume that you're going to be asked to explain. Non-binary people aren't the easiest to get your head around, but they are still people, and they just want to be happy with their bodies. Which is exactly what we want to be, only we have an end goal that the world understands and some clear cut labels to stick on us.

[Devlyn]

The non binaries are my favourite group here. They don't live by the shackles that others do. They are not ashamed to be themselves. Scurrying from one box assigned by society to another box assigned by society is pathetic. Seeing yourself as better for doing so is still more pathetic. That's my opinion. Hugs, Devlyn

[Rita]

Sometimes I believe so, I don't believe I am transexual.  I am a woman in the state of transition, though sometimes I use those words for simplicities sake.

Its not denial, but the gender binary that I associate with.

Unfortunately the blanket term transgender associates us all, but I believe the world will just be more confused at the designations without such a blanket word~ Regardless some of us go stealth after transition which eliminates any of these concerns.

This is directed at non-binary, or any other group associated with ->-bleeped-<-.

Someone who doesn't pass can't be faulted.... they are the gender they portray themselves as and a blood sister to my specific struggle.

Don't get me wrong, my beef is not with any group.  My beef is with the word itself as a term to describe everything people don't conisder a "normal" gender role.