Satanism - religion or no?

[Nero]

I've recently become acquainted with a woman online. We share a lot of the same interests, which is quite rare for me. She often signs a 666 after her name and ends her emails with the phrase, "May Lucifer bless you."
A lot of our discussions are quite dark, and we share the same concept of good and evil, so I'm wondering if she thinks I'm a member of her religion?
Is Satanism an actual religion? If so, I find it ironic and rather amusing that a Christian and a Satanist would share the same world view!  

[Pysgod]

Theres LaVeyan Satanism which is the idea of self as a God in some ways. But there is not actual idea of Satan as a person. Then theres the Theistic version which sees Satan aka. Lucifer as an actual person/God and adversary to the christian God.

[tinkerbell]

I find it ironic and rather amusing that a Christian and a Satanist would share the same world view!  

Why amusing and ironic?  there isn't a great difference between a Satanist and a Christian IMHO.  I'd like to share with you the eleven Satanic rules of the earth.

1. Do not give opinion or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will loose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Now, grab your heart on your right hand and tell me that we haven't followed any of these rules.  Can you do that?  no, you can't, for we have.  Interesting topic, Nero.  I could share more things with you if you're interested. 


tink

[Pysgod]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the 11 Tenants came from The Satanic Bible by Lavey.

[tinkerbell]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the 11 Tenants came from The Satanic Bible by Lavey.

You are correct! 

tink

[ShyGothGirl]

Well, as far as I'm concerned there are many different forms of Satanism. Those who believe in Anton LaVey's philosophy and those who believe and worship Satan as an entity, which IMO fits the concept of what a religion means.

tink

Hehehe LaVey's philosophy of "Satanism" is at least a semi-respectable thing in my opinion, albeit a bit egotistical... but, "Satan Worship" seems silly to me too. I mean who would want to follow the guy that was smitten and banished to hell anyway?

But, yeah... one is a philosophy, the other is a religion...

Me, I have faith, but it's nothing I would label as anything... I simply refuse to believe that we mortals can conceive very much of the "big picture" of the universe... I think each of the faiths got maybe a small piece of it, but.... mehhhhhhhh anyway


And I do believe LaVey did write the 11 Tenants.... or at least compiled them anyway...

[Pysgod]

Well, as far as I'm concerned there are many different forms of Satanism. Those who believe in Anton LaVey's philosophy and those who believe and worship Satan as an entity, which IMO fits the concept of what a religion means.

tink

Hehehe LaVey's philosophy of "Satanism" is at least a semi-respectable thing in my opinion, albeit a bit egotistical... but, "Satan Worship" seems silly to me too. I mean who would want to follow the guy that was smitten and banished to hell anyway?

But, yeah... one is a philosophy, the other is a religion...

Me, I have faith, but it's nothing I would label as anything... I simply refuse to believe that we mortals can conceive very much of the "big picture" of the universe... I think each of the faiths got maybe a small piece of it, but.... mehhhhhhhh anyway


And I do believe LaVey did write the 11 Tenants.... or at least compiled them anyway...

Possibly compiled. Would not surprise me.

[tinkerbell]

Oh Nero, Nero, Nero, you have gotten me started..... I won't shut up now...

The Nine Satanic Sins



1. Stupidity—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.

2. Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn't applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone's made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.

3. Solipsism—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won't. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of "Do unto others as they do unto you." It's work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.

4. Self-deceit—It's in the "Nine Satanic Statements" but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it's fun, and with awareness. But then, it's not self-deceit!

5. Herd Conformity—That's obvious from a Satanic stance. It's all right to conform to a person's wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.

6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.

7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it's something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.

8. Counterproductive Pride—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you've painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.

9. Lack of Aesthetics—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It's not what's supposed to be pleasing—it's what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one's own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.

what is sooooo wrong and evil about this?   

The Nine Satanic Statements




1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!



9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

tink

[Suzy]

A lot of it is LeVey's own original work.  And much of it is intended to be a direct counterpart to Catholic teachings, not to mention a financial bonanza for his organization. 

Get out your credit card and click here:  Church of Satan

Kristi

[Nero]

Wow, this is all very fascinating. Thanks everybody! Tink, I am very interested. Please share more things with me.

[David W. Shelton]

OOOH.. I'm the Christian pastor and I'm supposed to just zap this topic into oblivion...

ZAP!

Damn, hit my cat instead.

Oh well... great thread, guys. I think it's good to have an informed discussion about what LaVey's teachings were about. Of course, there are a lot of dimensions to it, and fundamentalists look to him as this demonized ogre who'll take over the world if they don't take over congress.

I'm not sure if I'd consider it a religion, though... it's more of a philosophy of living. Because of this, I'll move it into the appropriate forum. Please, by all means... keep up the discussion. It is indeed fascinating.

As far as the satanic "religion," goes... to me, that's a little like betting on an ant versus a steamroller. Not really a sure bet IMHO. :: shrug ::

[Jeannette]

I assume you are speaking from a Christian perspective. Modern Satanism is very much akin to humanism, where the self is supreme, a form of self-worship. Satanists do not necessarily directly worship a god called Satan but revere themselves as gods. Some of a christian background may choose this 'religion' as it seems rebellious or 'scary'.
As for a genuine worship of Satan ... well at least Lucifer, there is a group of people in the middle-east called the Yezedis who revere Lucifer, they have a similar creation story to genesis but believe the 'peacock angel/feathered serpent' was a wise mentor to mankind, and that God is impersonal and distant from mankind. The Yezedis are very secretive about their religion and never refer to Lucifer as Satan, but call him the peacock angel or the feathered serpent. They don't drink blood or sacrifice children, but they worship Lucifer and think he is good rather than evil.
Also, in the past there were several pagan religions in the middle east that endorsed child-sacrifice, but these religions involved worship of various fertility gods rather than acknowledging a Judeo-Christian Satan. In the bible it is written that various kings endorsed such religions and this lead to the downfall of Israel and Judah. As answer to your question why would someone willingly worship Satan while knowing about Christianity, a need to be different, rebelliousness and perhaps a severe religious upbringing?

[cindianna_jones]

... and here I thought it was the antithesis of Christianity.

I learn something new every day.   

I can pretty much garantee that I'd never attach that name to my beliefs though.

Cindi

[David W. Shelton]

I assume you are speaking from a Christian perspective. Modern Satanism is very much akin to humanism, where the self is supreme, a form of self-worship. Satanists do not necessarily directly worship a god called Satan but revere themselves as gods. Some of a christian background may choose this 'religion' as it seems rebellious or 'scary'.
As for a genuine worship of Satan ... well at least Lucifer, there is a group of people in the middle-east called the Yezedis who revere Lucifer, they have a similar creation story to genesis but believe the 'peacock angel/feathered serpent' was a wise mentor to mankind, and that God is impersonal and distant from mankind. The Yezedis are very secretive about their religion and never refer to Lucifer as Satan, but call him the peacock angel or the feathered serpent. They don't drink blood or sacrifice children, but they worship Lucifer and think he is good rather than evil.
Also, in the past there were several pagan religions in the middle east that endorsed child-sacrifice, but these religions involved worship of various fertility gods rather than acknowledging a Judeo-Christian Satan. In the bible it is written that various kings endorsed such religions and this lead to the downfall of Israel and Judah. As answer to your question why would someone willingly worship Satan while knowing about Christianity, a need to be different, rebelliousness and perhaps a severe religious upbringing?

Great post! I'm loving it.

[Pysgod]

I assume you are speaking from a Christian perspective. Modern Satanism is very much akin to humanism, where the self is supreme, a form of self-worship. Satanists do not necessarily directly worship a god called Satan but revere themselves as gods. Some of a christian background may choose this 'religion' as it seems rebellious or 'scary'.
As for a genuine worship of Satan ... well at least Lucifer, there is a group of people in the middle-east called the Yezedis who revere Lucifer, they have a similar creation story to genesis but believe the 'peacock angel/feathered serpent' was a wise mentor to mankind, and that God is impersonal and distant from mankind. The Yezedis are very secretive about their religion and never refer to Lucifer as Satan, but call him the peacock angel or the feathered serpent. They don't drink blood or sacrifice children, but they worship Lucifer and think he is good rather than evil.
Also, in the past there were several pagan religions in the middle east that endorsed child-sacrifice, but these religions involved worship of various fertility gods rather than acknowledging a Judeo-Christian Satan. In the bible it is written that various kings endorsed such religions and this lead to the downfall of Israel and Judah. As answer to your question why would someone willingly worship Satan while knowing about Christianity, a need to be different, rebelliousness and perhaps a severe religious upbringing?

Ah yes.....The Yezidis. The religion they practice is actually a form of Zoroastrianism. I used to have a PDF copy of the Al-Jiwah.

[Christo]

I aint got nothin to do w/ that dude, bro! he aint my friend.

[katia]

i have studied LaVeyan Satanism and greatly admire Anton Lavey. modern or LaVeyan Satanism is basically a mixture of atheism, hedonism, and humanism. LaVeyan Satanists do not believe in any gods or an afterlife of any kind. they don't literally worship satan, but rather think of him as a symbol of man's nature and ego. in satanism the individual is considered to be of the foremost importance, one's own happiness and well-being are considered before that of anyone else. satanists ascribe to the philosophy of "do unto others as they do unto you".The old animal sacrifice and ritual abuse stories are just stereotypes and have nothing whatsoever to do with the philosophy of Anton LaVey. if you read the satanic bible, you'll see that Anton LaVey is clearly against harming animals or children. despite the stigma attached to the title of satanist, satanism is actually a very down-to-earth religion that doesn't make any idealistic and unrealistic demands of its followers.
 

I aint got nothin to do w/ that dude, bro! he aint my friend.

what dude?  satan isn't a being; it's a symbol.  don't worry, i'm sure he wouldn't like you anyway.

[spacekat]

To constitute a bona fide (pun not intended) religion you would need a set of beliefs (not just practices or knowledge).

Does 'satanism' qualify?  I'm not sure. Depends on what or who you refer to.

Certainly the archetypal view of satanism or perhaps more correctly satan,  is very much coloured by the christian concept of 'satan' or 'the devil'.
It would be foolish to presume, however, that this is the only definition.  There are many many beliefs, practices, theologies both ancient and modern that could lay equal claim to 'satan'.   

[Yvonne]

It isn't a religion.  It's a philosophy that encourages to be a good person without claiming there is a super being that you are in cahoots with but the name does freak out the "holier than thou christians".

[tinkerbell]

I aint got nothin to do w/ that dude, bro! he aint my friend.

what dude?  satan isn't a being; it's a symbol. 

This is only true in Laveyan Satanism, for Satan is not regarded as an entity but rather He symbolizes our carnal desires. As I previously said, there are many forms of Satanism.
One version of it (Satanism) is based on Eyptian mythology as opposed to Christian; it is based on the mythological being called Set. (an Egyptian devil)  and their church is called the Temple of Set. Another form is called Luciferianism. This is based on the devil as being named Lucifer.  Their philosophy is that the devil is who we must answer to in life and God is who we deal with in death.  Luciferians do believe in Satan as an entity and worship Him as such.
Personally I agree with the Luciferian version of Satanism over the others, mainly because I do believe in the devil as a literal being and see the God figure as is taught in religion as being real.

Wow, this is all very fascinating. Thanks everybody! Tink, I am very interested. Please share more things with me.

Sure!  Anytime!  I have to admit that this topic fascinates me as well, for it teaches you so many things which you wouldn't expect to find in anything with the name Satan on it.  Just ask and if I know the answer, I will share it with you.  

tink