Evil In Religion?

[The Middle Way]

A lot of noise hereabouts/recently about *intrinsic or inherent evil, in Religion*, IE: that Religion per se is equivalent to a kind of Evil.

Well, one does see quite a bit, historically and as-we-speak, in the area of Religious Thought having, shall we say, applications that are not always to the good, or at least not to the best common good.

In my view, this comes from the application of Dogma, and the Absolute Certainties that sticking to a Dogmatic view tend to involve.

Not necessarily anything in the text (of a religion) itself.

TMW

[tinkerbell]

I personally agree to a certain extend but I also think that religion gives some people direction and "rules" to live by as well as hope for an afterlife.  I can see the evil in religion, but I can also see the evil in science, so what does that make me?

tink

[jamesBrine]

I agree that dogma or the application of dogma CAN cause evil. The middle way made a point that it is not always in the texts that one may find the evil. I think what is missed is that the doctrines or dogmas are taken from the text. This is not to say all dogmas are taken from their orginal text for some may be added to the faith through outside texts. Yet many of the important or central dogmas to the religion are from the orginal texts. Therefore I find it difficult to seperate dogmas of a religion from their text's.

To argue that the application or the forcing of these dogmas on greater society creates the problems seems to be a much stronger argument. In using this argument the problem goes beyond the dogmas or the religion but towards humanity. It is humanity who applys or forces the dogmas. The simplist solution would be to eradicate humanity but this is not a possible option. Evil is therefore not found in religion or dogma's of faiths but found in humanities response or reaction towards the religion or dogma. This is excluded any texts in which their intention is to harm society.
  James

[cindianna_jones]

I personally agree to a certain extend but I also think that religion gives some people direction and "rules" to live by as well as hope for an afterlife.  I can see the evil in religion, but I can also see the evil in science, so what does that make me?

tink

A thinker and not a sheep.


But I am curious, what do you find evil in science?  I think of science as the process for collecting data and then  making sense out of the data.  Sometimes, we get it wrong. But we aren't afraid to retabulate and do it again.

Cindi

[Jeannette]

We seem hard wired to believe in a supreme being, so all civilizations have developed a religious underpinning. The serious issue is the difference between ethics and morals. Ethics is the codification of the universal fundamental beliefs about man's interaction with his fellow man such as not killing, or lying, or stealing. Morals is the theological basis for behavior and is very dependent on culture and the religion in question. Thus morals have allowed torture, slavery, killing for violation of "morals", etc. Religion can calm people in distress, provide answers to the unanswerable (why are we here?, what happens when we die?) and so is useful for many people. But religions are run by humans and their influence can be very powerful. And powerful influence can be self serving and corrupt. The evil inherent in that corruption is why so much unethical behavior (not that all of that is stated to be "moral") is carried out even to this day, causing much suffering and outrage.

[Kendall]

I guess it would matter how one defines evil.

While stealing is considered evil by most, most also find Robin Hood type , stealing from the rich, oppressive, and dictators to give to the poor, subservant, and neglected more noble then evil.

While Killing as in cold blood murder is many times wrong by most people, some people find military wars, defensive police type killing, revenge type killings harder to categorize as wrong. Some even believe god or gods can in wars and battle bring one victory over the enemy.

The Aztecs believed that they were required to sacrifice humans on the altars of temples everyday in order to prevent the sun from falling out of the sky.

During the crusades, the christian knights went to claim Jerusalem, a massive war fought in the name of their god.

Muslim like extremist cults strap bombs onto young impressionable people to explode in public areas.

Heck many believe that god or gods brings one victory in sporting events, even violent boxing, football, rugby, hockey, or such.

Whats evil, and does religions or all religions cause evil? Does science cause as much evil?

Some people find evil in laboratory testing on animals, is one example of an evil that some people believe is very wrong. Also the falsified passing of drugs or other equipment/device that later comes to prove harmful.

[Butterfly]

I think religion is about power and control over the masses. It takes away free thinking and responsibility for ones own actions. Religion itself is not evil. It becomes that way when people who are ignorant, twist it around to suit their own evil endeavors. Much like a gun. Guns do not kill people. People who pick them up, load them, and aim, kill people. Anything when used by a warped or malignant mind can be turned to evil for that purpose.

[Jessica]

Religion (Much different than spirituality) is a social structure.  A group of people with a like mind getting together to form a 'community'

All social structures are comprised of people.
Some people are good, some people are bad.

Saying 'X' religion has evil in it is the same as saying
'X' country has evil in it.

Of course it does.
That doesn't mean that the society or social structure is inherently evil.

I wouldn't expect someone to Judge the U.S. based on Charles Manson.
Nor would I expect anyone to Judge Christianity based on the worst of them.

I guess my point is all societies can contain evil, just as they can good.

As to the basic tennants and guidelines of the Christian Religion (aka a social society), I think the tennants are basically good.

I think religion society is about power and control over the masses. It takes away free thinking and responsibility for ones own actions. Religion Society itself is not evil. It becomes that way when people who are ignorant, twist it around to suit their own evil endeavors. Much like a gun. Guns do not kill people. People who pick them up, load them, and aim, kill people.

see?

[katia]

when an individual or group purports to be of a [particular religion] and [kills] or [terrorizes] the innocent, and that religion remains silent and [not] condemn the action, or refuses to use its authority and power to stop it. that is an evil religion.

[The Middle Way]

I can also see the evil in science, so what does that make me?

Cite examples please.

tmw

when an individual or group purports to be of a [particular religion] and [kills] or [terrorizes] the innocent, and that religion remains silent and [not] condemn the action, or refuses to use its authority and power to stop it. that is an evil religion.

So, your definition of evil, here at least, is, that it is passive, defined by acts of omission, rather than active/acts of comission. That is interesting.

OK, now: define *innocent*. You are really painting with a broad brush, here. Your views as seen above are also very black and white. One person's terrorist might be another's saint. Et cetera.

tmw

As if there is such a thing as good and evil..

This reminds me of WS Burroughs' line (The Old Man of the Mountain, the chief Assasin): Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted

tmw

[The Middle Way]

As if there is such a thing as good and evil..

This reminds me of WS Burroughs' line (The Old Man of the Mountain, the chief Assasin): Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted

tmw

Never heard of it

Well your construction, above, reads like "no such thing as good and evil", I just extended that; you don't have to get the reference...

Anyway, yeah I know, blah blah, woof woof, ARF!

My idea in this topic was to indicate that there are a lot of kinds of religions.

There have been a number of posts hereabouts that have this sound: "Religions (Faith)? They're (It's) evil. Why do I assert this? Because I don't believe in that stuff."

Know what I mean?

tmw

[The Middle Way]

I've just stopped caring about religions altogether I guess. I just don't find it that interesting

Why post in this topic then? Are you Bored?

[The Middle Way]

I've just stopped caring about religions altogether I guess. I just don't find it that interesting

Why post in this topic then? Are you Bored?

I guess I just wanted to post about how I feel regarding evil in religion

That you don't care about it. That's one of those thanks for sharing moments, I gotta tell ya.


And, yes, Tink, you can have too much faith in a lot of things, science being one of them...

That whole kind of thinking can go very awry when your certainty-in-faith takes you far away from the idea of the best common good.

Which is the idea of this topic... the whole *"I AM RIGHT!" So screw all the lot of you if you don't subscribe to the same belief.*, sort of sound, which I am well sick of.

TMW

[tinkerbell]

Huh? Okay I'm just cutting you some slack here because of ........well, you know... .....don't get used to it though.

tink

[cindianna_jones]

Hmmmm...well, there are things about science that I do not like, and BTW, it has nothing to do with lack of understanding.  I just feel it's unneccessary and against nature (i.e, cloning, genetically altered pets like the "munchkin" cat or the "glow in the dark" fish, fertility drugs, abortion, animal testing, biological weapons, etc)

I do know and understand the reasons why these things are done, and I'm well aware that my opinion is not going to change the evolution of science; however, I personally wish it weren't so.

There is a proverb which says Just because you can do it, it doesn't mean that you should , and just because we have the ability and knowledge to make it does not mean we can fully understand the pros and cons of it.  The question which always remains unanswered is:  what if the cons ultimately outweigh the pros, like nuclear bombs for example? 

Thar ya go lumping all that I hold in contempt into "my world of science"!  I agree Tink.  There's a lot of crap that can go into that bin.  But here is where science and religion can get along.  

For you see science is a methodology for collecting information.  Religion is (or should be) a way of life.  Both are pure before you add the actions of people.  It's people that screw them both up.

That is why I've always maintained (at least for the past few months here) that science and faith don't have to always be at each other's throats. They are indeed separate things and should be kept apart.  Don't use science to prove a religious faith... and don't use faith to disprove or negate science.

"Have a little faith, baby."  (just one of my favorite film quotes)

Chin up!

Cindi

[David W. Shelton]

If you got an issue, bring it to me. I require no slack. Particularly when I am being eminently reasonable.



Please read it again sweetheart. I remembered you are on medication. 



tmw

This is getting too personal. Thread locked for 24 hours. Please cool off.