Truth is I am just plain scared

[Lesley_Roberta]

So, are you saying that if a woman dresses in a manner that you'd describe as sexually provocative, then she is to blame for being raped? What about rape victims who are naturally beautiful and sexy, who don't dress provocatively? Are we to blame them for not wearing a wardrobe of cheap, shapeless clothing, or head-to-toe burqa-like outfits? Perhaps it's not "rape-rape" when the victim is either dressed attractively or just born that way, and as such the perpetrator should get a lesser sentence (because anyone can see that the poor guy had no way of controlling himself. I mean it was obviously a clear case of entrapment on the woman's part – just look at the way she's dressed!). Or perhaps the victim should be punished as well – as is the case in some countries – so as to deter other women who may have the devious notion to dress provocatively in public.

And where does this magical, arbitrary line exist anyway; the one that divides the realms of sexy clothing as opposed to, well... what? Conservative? Neat and sensible? Dowdy? I mean it's just a deranged, reactionary and ethically hollow argument.

Wasting your time now Jenna, you can live in a world that doesn't punish obvious stupidity if you insist, I won't be found in that world though.
I said I would punish the rapist regardless. I just won't be as sympathetic to victims that should have known better.

[Lesley_Roberta]

I have the actual reference book Cynthia

I also have a small booklet sized item that came free with The Butlerian Jihad hardcover called Hunting Harkkonens.

I have a book titled The Road to Dune as well.

It's an amazing universe that Frank crafted. All too plausible sounding as well. In the dawn of the setting humanity has become just too dependent on machines to the point they stop being able to seriously take care of themselves. Machines don't think in the AI sense of the word, they are merely just too capable all the same. Our machines right now are likely doing too much for our own good already.

[JoanneB]

Our machines right now are likely doing too much for our own good already.

As more than amply demonstrated for years now by handing a cashier paper money and these shiny silver and copper disks in order to get one bigger shiny disk back. Nine times out of ten I get the "deer in the headlights" look as they sort out WTF??.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Right now, Canada has ditched the penny.

It is no doubt causing a lot of grief with customers that seem likely to whine making a fuss. Miss that was supposed to come out to 2.25, not 2.30 as if the extra nickel is life or death.

Or cases where they are still just using the old price such as 2.26 and expecting anyone to still be in a hurry to keep pennies handy.

The real trick though is if you pay with plastic, you are paying the extra regardless, so if it costs 2.27 you are paying 2.27, not 2.25.

When I go to Tim Horton's my hot chocolate is 2.26, but fortunately I have a can full of pennies here. I will likely have pennies long after the price in time morphs into something else.

But it does illustrate how cashiers just seem to blindly do what the machine tells them. Yesterday I needed some shortbread bowls, they were listed as 1.99 on the item, and the girl stated 1.79 for reasons I can't fathom and handed me 75 cents back from a toonie. I have no idea what she was doing. The machine would have scanned the item, so I can't say why it was labeled 1.99, it was not on sale to my knowledge. I walked away thinking 'whatever' I am not really feeling like slowing down the line right now.

When the power goes off though, boy that sure is a lot of fun. No one can get gas, so it mangles the work force. You can't buy groceries because they can't process the sale because food can't be input into the machine, because often they have no price on the item. And forget produce being weighed No lights mean you better live where the windows point in the right direction. And hopefully the weather is neither really hot or really cold. That and with luck you have food in the house that doesn't need to be cooked.

Right now though, I would just hate to have the supply of disposable razors run out. I do have an old fashioned straight safety razor. Not sure why they are called 'safety' razors though hehe. Ever used one?

[JoanneB]

I think "Safety" comes from it folds into the handle, which also helps to protect the sharp edge you worked very hard to obtain. There is a very good reason they are more often refered to as "Cut throat" razors 

[Lesley_Roberta]

Makes sense. I guess mine then is a different term then.

I have something from my grandfather, it has a handle that screws together too lengths and the head is a two piece item holding a disposable two sided blade. It all disassembles into a nice snuff box sized carrying box. Likely meant as a traveling shaver.

[Jess42]

So, are you saying that if a woman dresses in a manner that you'd describe as sexually provocative, then she is to blame for being raped? What about rape victims who are naturally beautiful and sexy, who don't dress provocatively? Are we to blame them for not wearing a wardrobe of cheap, shapeless clothing, or head-to-toe burqa-like outfits? Perhaps it's not "rape-rape" when the victim is either dressed attractively or just born that way, and as such the perpetrator should get a lesser sentence (because anyone can see that the poor guy had no way of controlling himself. I mean it was obviously a clear case of entrapment on the woman's part – just look at the way she's dressed!). Or perhaps the victim should be punished as well – as is the case in some countries – so as to deter other women who may have the devious notion to dress provocatively in public.

And where does this magical, arbitrary line exist anyway; the one that divides the realms of sexy clothing as opposed to, well... what? Conservative? Neat and sensible? Dowdy? I mean it's just a deranged, reactionary and ethically hollow argument.

I kind of agree, that when someone dresses provacatively that they are wanting to be seen. Wanting to look sensual and attract attention to themselves. I will admire them, look at them, appreciate the beauty and so on. But there are many that are extremely aggressive in their behavour, that will say something either out of jelousy or that think that they are God's gift to the world. And then there are some that are just plain deranged, sexual predators that think that anyone is their's for the taking. It is these individuals that are way more dangerous, in my opinion,  than Lions roaming the street. We know that if hungry or threatened that a lion will attack us and possibly eat us. No humiliation involved just food or a threat, nothing personal, the lion doesn't hate you or want want to feel sexual gratification from you. Very predictable. The human predator on the other hand, doesn't seem like a threat. Most you can't tell from just plain old run of the mill people we mingle with on a day to day basis. Very unpredictable and way more dangerous.

There are places that I would rather not go into. Crime ridden areas that do have high rates of rape and robberies and so on. Cars can break down in these areas, or you may have to go into these areas for whatever reason. If I am in an area that I know for sure to have high rates of crime or my vehicle becomes disabled, I tend to be on high alert. If I have a weapon, I will make it seem so, If I don't I still try to give an illusion that I do. In this way, people are predictable in that the human predator will prey on the weakest and most vulnerable among us and they don't want to get maimed or killed in the process. I guess what I'm trying to say is to be vigilent and pay attention to your surroundings and the way people act or look at you and if that little voice in your head is telling you something is not right and you should listen and leave the area. This is good to do for anyone anytime anywhere. I would rather have a steak hanging around my neck in a cage with a lion than be in some places that I have been before.

As for victims of rape or crime and so on, in no way should the victims ever be blamed. The criminal needs to be taken out of society either for a while or permanantly. There is or shouldn't be any justification for blaming a victim. How a person dresses shouldn't even be taken into consideration. How the perpatrator grew up shouldn't be taken into consideration either.

[Shantel]

As always, a measure of common sense and discernment of surroundings should be the way all women deal with their outings even in broad daylight. Unfortunately not everyone is so gifted and there are those that are so driven by the desire to be noticed and receive their visual strokes from others that they disregard all caution.

This brings to mind a very pretty young post-op woman I once knew who insisted on going by herself against my advice to a bar where all of the UW huskies and their girlfriends go following a football game. The young cis females clocked her right away as teenage women usually are so adept at doing and as she left later she was pulled to the street and beaten. I saw her later and held her close as she cried and related what had happened. Her face was bruised and she had some severe abrasions on her arms and legs from being dragged across the cement. Harsh as it sounds, I was compelled to ask her if she learned anything by the experience.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Not sure how anyone has concluded I have ever stated a rape victim is to blame for being raped.

Only the rapist is to blame.

But I decide who I feel pity for.

[JoanneB]

Not sure how anyone has concluded I have ever stated a rape victim is to blame for being raped.

Only the rapist is to blame.

But I decide who I feel pity for.

Just the typical knee-jerk reaction when you don't spout the party line by people who don't live in Realville

[Jess42]

Not sure how anyone has concluded I have ever stated a rape victim is to blame for being raped.

Only the rapist is to blame.

But I decide who I feel pity for.

I know what you meant Lesley_Roberta. I didn't come to theat conclusion from your original post.

[Jenna Stannis]

Not sure how anyone has concluded I have ever stated a rape victim is to blame for being raped.

JENNA: Not sure what you mean here, but I'm going to assume it's not what I think you mean, because that would be really bad.
LESLEY: I likely meant it the way you thought I wouldn't mean it.

Well, now you know what I meant. Without further clarification on your part, I thought it likely you meant blaming the victim.

[Y]ou can live in a world that doesn't punish obvious stupidity if you insist, I won't be found in that world though.

Again, wow. Can you dig that hole any deeper? Do you realise how your statement could be interpreted; that the victim deserved to be raped?

Then again, I should remind myself that the person making these outrageous, reactionary statements considers rape "a verification of being seen sufficiently female".

[Jenna Stannis]

As for victims of rape or crime and so on, in no way should the victims ever be blamed. The criminal needs to be taken out of society either for a while or permanantly. There is or shouldn't be any justification for blaming a victim. How a person dresses shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

Agreed.

In any case, rape allegedly "caused" by "provocative" attire worn by young, attractive females is, statistically, a myth. Rape is about power, not passion.

[Jenna Stannis]

Just the typical knee-jerk reaction when you don't spout the party line by people who don't live in Realville

Hi Joanne.

Just wondering if you could please clarify what line you're referring to?

[Shodan]

Rape is about power, not passion.

This. I've actually been the victim of sexual assault. As a man. Long before I discovered I was trans. Was I dressing provocatively? Nope. I was at work, wearing khakis and a polo shirt. I'm not the most handsome of fellow and I was just doing my job.

I was working at Disney World at Pleasure Island at the carnival games that they had there. This woman wanted a large stuffed animal without having to pay for it. Having had these kinds of conversations a million times before, I told her nicely and politely that she would need to win one, or if she really wanted one, she could buy it. Of course that didn't fly for her. So after a bit more whining she tried to use her sexuality as a ploy to get what she wanted. She said, and forgive my language, that she would take me out back and suck me off for it. To which I told her, again, politely, thank you, no, not interested.

So she got desperate and grabbed my junk and insisted on performing sexual favors for a stuffed animal. To which I responded by getting Security to escort her out.

Even though this is a far cry from rape, it does illustrate that she had no real interest in me sexually. She was using it as a tool, hoping that it would have power over me to get what she wanted. The problem with the idea that women dressing provocatively incites men to perform rape is that in order for that to be true, it would mean that men would have to have no capability of controlling themselves. Having been a man, I can assure you that I would be offended at this very prospect.

No. At the end of the day, what makes rape rape is that whoever is doing it could stop, but won't

[Lesley_Roberta]

Long before I realized I was a woman, I realized you can't win arguments on the internet, not that there is a prize or anything, (there isn't).

I often ponder if people think when I walk away from a discussion if they think they have 'won'?

Well I would need for it to bother me I suppose.

The worst thing you can do to yourself is waste valuable life span in internet arguments waiting for the announcement that you have won.

I'm no longer active on wargaming forums for just this truth eh. I got tired of spending time with people that would just refuse to accept that no one cares where arguments are concerned.

Hey I know of plenty of things that are facts that are easy enough to prove, but generally speaking, people often simply will just go on blindly ignoring the evidence even if you hit them over the head with it.

To that end, enjoy yourself where arguing is concerned, I have much better things to do with my life than pursue obvious arguments.

I don't mind offering an opinion, but I sure am not going to devote an argument to forcibly make it accepted.

There's no award after all, I gain nothing.

In the realm of my OP, spent the day today with my mom baking.
Baking, I think my brother finding out I like to bake and I am good at it would surprise him almost as much as my being his sister (not brother).
He's due up some time this month. I am wondering if the moment will present itself.
I am not planning to hide anything, but I am not planning to make an effort either.
I wonder what he will think of my new purse? He made a comical dig at my Asus laptop carry all the last time he was down. I was carrying it like a purse, but the thing is it IS an electronics carry all.
I wonder if my Avon order will get here before his visit?

My brother and sister are not 'talking' lately. My brother can be a bit of a pain sometimes.

[Jenna Stannis]

Lesley, Internet discussions to me are about an exchange of ideas and opinions. I'm not even sure how "winning" fits with a discussion on gender, inspiration and sexual assault, or why you even brought it up. Are each of my posts being scored out of 10, or something?

I find it a little sad that you think you "gain nothing" by engaging in discussions presenting perspectives that don't necessarily echo your own.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Discussions are fine.

Argumentative style offers nothing.

I'm not an adversary, not point in behaving like I was.

[Jenna Stannis]

Discussions are fine.

Argumentative style offers nothing.

I'm not an adversary, not point in behaving like I was.

I get the impression you don't know what an argument is, but that's not surprising.

What is surprising is that you post deeply offensive comments and then get defensive and indignant when someone questions them.

[Devlyn]

Let's take a moment to review an item from the TOS:

15. Items under discussion shall be confined to the subject matter at hand, members shall avoid taking the other users posts personally, and/or posting anything that can reasonably be construed as a personal attack.