Awesome! Introducing the first ever MtF MMA (mixed martial arts) fighter!

[MaidofOrleans]

Honestly idc about sports and I don't get them, especially MMA... it doesn't bother me that it's unfair for the record, just saying, everyone's gonna know it's unfair...  If women didn't want to be on a somewhat level playing field with their opponents they wouldn't be playing in a women's division in the first place.

Kind of a no-win situation IMO... then Fallon Fox can never accomplish anything without people whispering "born male," and everyone googles and sees pictures of a buff, shirtless guy and rolls their eyes.  Cause they already think MTFs are all hypermasculine anyway

I don't care about sports either, they are boring to me. I'm just saying that these girls trans or not are competitive and aren't going to back down because its not totally fair or some bigot gives them crap for being born male bodied.

[Jayr]

Do I think there's an advantage? Yes, in some way.
Bone doesn't change on HRT, and bone thickness is a big determining factor in mma since the goal is to knock each other out.
Thicker bones in the face, harder to be knocked out. Thicker bones in the hand, harder your punch(even with the gloves.)

Well whether it's fair or not doesn't matter because
If an opponent doesn't want to fight her because of it, they can refuse the fight.
If an opponent still think they can take her, they can accept the fight.

The only thing I'm not okay with, is the fact that they are saying she should hide her medical history from her future opponents.
I think they should be notified, and after make the decision too fight or not.

That's my opinion. She should be allowed to fight, but her opponents should be told.

[Jayr]

Ohhhhh I just read something very interesting in the comments on her facebook.

If you have two people of equal weight and one has heavier bones, it means that person must also have less lean muscle mass and is therefore weaker. She's actually at a disadvantage against other women in her weight class...and that's what makes her such a badass.

So is she at an advantage? Or disadvantage?
Too complicated for me XD

She should just fight lol

[Trans Truth]

I mean on one hand it's great to see transgender representation in the sport (considering how I love MMA), but in my opinion I don't think it's fair to put an MtF against a cisgendered woman.  I know HRT changes the body....but that would be like Shane Carwin announcing that he (or in this case-she) is transgender, takes HRT for a couple of years and demands to fight against women. That would be an unfair advantage considering bone structure, etc.  There are some things that just can't go away with HRT/surgery/etc.
I'm not knocking Fallon and if the officials say she can fight, then she can.  This is just my opinion

I'm sorry to say that I do agree with you and cannot support Fox. I support reasonable things to advance the rights of this community (like Jenna Talackova entering Miss Universe), but not when the safety of others can potentially be compromised (a worry some people have raised out there) let alone any sense of justice.

Supporting causes like these can also bring on backlash. For example, most of the comments even on gay sites do not support Fox. In fact, it is bringing out the worst in people, where they are calling us 'men' because we have a different body structure, which is something that can usually be de-emphasized in favour of our identities, but simply cannot be ignored in this very case. In conclusion, in my opinion, her push to be included can and has brought backlash to our community.

I want everyone to know that not all of our community is behind this controversial push. I totally support any cis-female's decision not to fight her. After all, it is only reasonable if it's because they don't feel it's fair or safe.

[MaidofOrleans]

I'm sorry to say that I do agree with you and cannot support Fox. I support reasonable things to advance the rights of this community (like Jenna Talackova entering Miss Universe), but not when the safety of others can potentially be compromised (in my opinion) let alone any sense of justice.

Supporting causes like these can also bring on backlash. For example, most of the comments even on gay sites do not support Fox. In fact, it is bringing out the worst in people, where they are calling us 'men' because we have a different body structure, which is something that can usually be de-emphasized in favour of our identities, but simply cannot be ignored in this very case. In conclusion, in my opinion, her push to be included can and has brought backlash to our community.

I want everyone to know that not all of our community is behind this controversial push. I totally support any cis-female's decision not to fight her. After all, it is only reasonable.

Sorry but as a trans woman and a feminist I have to call you out. Since when have we backed down because of backlash? In case you haven't noticed, we are controversy incarnate. We will be critized harder than other people simply because of what we are.

They are calling us 'men' because they are uneducateded bigots and it has nothing to do with the situation with the fairness of Fox fighting. Cis straights and gays are just as likely to blindely despise us. So what makes this less reasonable than a miss universe pageant? Because its not a stereotypical feminine activity? You think Fox is going to hurt tham any more than a buff cis woman beating the crap out of them? These women are fighters they are use to getting hurt. I say bring the backlash because its always a biproduct of progress.

[Trans Truth]

I say bring the backlash because its always a biproduct of progress.

I think we are not ready to take that backlash yet. There's currently anti discrimination bills going before the parliament in Canada, Australia and in some US states, and it is bringing some controversy in all these places. Do you want to jeopardize all those things? If these don't get though, many trans people are going to be unemployed, kicked out of various premises, be homeless etc. I think survival is the community's priority at the moment.

Anyway, it is not wise to draw attention to where we are different from cis women so the bigots get another chance at calling us 'men'.

From what I have seen, Fox has very little support in the mainstream straight and gay press, perhaps less than the prisoner who wanted SRS (and I would rather support the prisoner who wants SRS than Fox, for the record). Even in the trans community it is a divisive issue, as you can see on here.

[MaidofOrleans]

I think we are not ready to take that backlash yet. There's currently anti discrimination bills going before the parliament in Canada, Australia and in some US states, and it is bringing some controversy in all these places. Do you want to jeopardize all those things? If these don't get though, many trans people are going to be unemployed, kicked out of various premises, be homeless etc. I think survival is the community's priority at the moment.

Anyway, it is not wise to draw attention to where we are different from cis women so the bigots get another chance at calling us 'men'.

Notice that Fox has very little support in the mainstream straight and gay press, perhaps less than the prisoner who wanted SRS (and I would rather support the prisoner who wants SRS than Fox, for the record). Even in the trans community it is a divisive issue, as you can see on here.

I like how you ignored everything I said...

[Jay-Bird]

Hmmm, this indeed is an interesting one.

Gotta say my partner and I love nothing more on a Friday night than sipping on red whilst watching 2 giant beef-cakes beat the absolute snot out of each other. And here was I thinking we were the only 2 girls to enjoy this fabulous armchair sport! MMA talk @ Susans - who would have thought

Anyway's back on topic, have any of you seen Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos? if not then you need to take a look and tell me if you still think this wouldn't be a fair bout against a Trans-Woman competitor.

Here in Oz, Roller Derby has become rather massive and I know for fact there are heaps of Trans girls who compete professionally in this.
So far as contact sport goes Roller Derby is pretty er contact I would say. (and I haven't heard any complaints thus far)

There needs to be and will always be pioneers in everything that us trans people will do for the first time, whether it be sport or some other largely Cis dominated activity, at first everyone will cry and crack a general sad, but then through media exposure and education it slowly becomes acceptable and then the norm, and of coarse all those whiny little sheeps of the world who cried will once again be happy, only to soon find something else and new to sniff about.

The more of us everywhere the better for us all.

Jay-Bird

[muuu]

.

[Jenna Stannis]

Making Sports Fair For Transgendered Athletes: http://jezebel.com/5656062/making-sports-fair-for-transgender-athletes

I think it's quite appalling that there's such a kerfuffle over perceived genders in women's sports. Just consider the really hurtful commentary and humiliating scrutiny Emily Mauresmo and Caster Semenya have had to endure. Often the post event comments from other competitors just seem like sour grapes.

[Jayr]

Anyway's back on topic, have any of you seen Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos? if not then you need to take a look and tell me if you still think this wouldn't be a fair bout against a Trans-Woman competitor.

This is the exact reason I think they should just let her fight.

Cyborg is a BEAST!!!

[JessicaH]

Christine "Cyborg" Santos was also suspended for anabolic steroid use...  http://www.mmamania.com/2012/1/6/2688267/cristiane-cyborg-santos-tests-positive-for-steroids-license-suspended

[Joanna Dark]

That's to be expected. Most MMA fans are super macho guys with big egos and small brains. A transwoman is like their anti-Christ.

Hahahaha back when I would hang out with this group of friends who were all super mach and didn't like me much (except my best friend and his brother; they liked me) but anyhoo, I had to sit through these MMA parties and I swear I felt like I was being tortured. If it wasn't for the alcohol, I wouldn't have been able to take it. I can only imagine those guys comments over this and I'm sure they'd use the word "it." like she is monster clown hanging out in sewers and is actually a giant spider luring kids to their doom. Come to think of it, isn't that what macho guys think of trans women? It's just so boring at least with boxing people get punched a lot which is entertaining in that primal sort of way.

[Lady_Oracle]

Being as someone that has sparred with women and men when I was a teen training in boxing and muay-thai. Some of you are making me laugh, bone density is trivial to a fighter. Especially to those that know what they're doing. Secondly what about those of us that started transition at a young age. Where hrt has widened our pelvises and have a skeletal structure akin to a cis woman. Should we be denied as well to compete in sports? I'm so happy Fox is making headway for those of us that enjoy the ring. There's been a couple of trans-women in the muay-thai circuit. It's awesome to finally see a fellow trans female in MMA. It gives me hope because I want to fight one day as well.  However my case will be a lot different. I feel like any kind of bad rep fox is getting is because of her big physique. In regards to my body structure no one will be able to say I have an advantage. Because of my frame that mirrors cis females, from my arms to my hips.

I thought one of my dreams was crushed when I began transition. That I would never be able to compete but I was wrong thankfully. What's funny is that I mostly trained with women a lot because of my physique. This was way before I started my transition too. It all makes sense now though 

[Jayr]

Christine "Cyborg" Santos was also suspended for anabolic steroid use...  http://www.mmamania.com/2012/1/6/2688267/cristiane-cyborg-santos-tests-positive-for-steroids-license-suspended

Had no idea. Wow!
I wonder if she was on steroids when she fought Gina..I remember watching the fight, almost cried when Gina lost.
It was such an unfair defeat as well.(People that saw the fight know what I'm talking about.)

[Lady_Oracle]

But your basing this off of complete masculinization and then getting on hrt right? Which I can understand to an extent. However like I asked in my previous post, what about those of us that weren't hit by such masculinization completely? And your point about faster reflexes, spatial reasoning, and depth perception is fallible. Women in recent studies have proven otherwise and to be equal.

I get your sentiment about combat sports and sports in general but different strokes for different folks ya kno

[MaidofOrleans]

HEY GUESS WHAT EVERYONE?

I was watching CNN just now. The reporter was the typical sort I was Expecting... her internalized transphobia was showing through her choice of words. She tried to "lead on" people she was interviewing "Do you think it was an advatage being a man?" -question that she was actually asked...

HOWEVER

They questioned the woman she fought. Ericka... something or other for a last name. Not really the brightest light, but shes good at what she does, fighting. She was accompanied by her manager.

Reporter asks leading like questions (am I on CNN or the O'reilly factor?). "Do you think it was unfair for her not to disclose?" "Are you going to be challenging this loss on your record?"

For the first question she said "No." Manager bumps in, says no I think that this is something that should personally be disclosed before a fight so we can all know what were getting into. Fair enough.

Now, is she going to challenge the ruling. Yes, BECAUSE... the ref made a bad call. She was not knocked out, but ruled out or wtv the rule is in MMA. This has nothing to do with her being trans.

SHE EXPLICITLY STATED SHE WANTED A REMATCH! Her manager does not have a problem with this at all.

So, all the "expert" doctors, people who she has DEFEATED in fights, and even managers of those defeated fighters do not mind her fighting against other women. Another famous (cant remember her name) female MMA fighter says she would fight Fallon no problem.

So... the only problem is (not surprisingly) the transphobic bigots who probably would have scoffed and J. Robinson going to his first at bat. Or at the very thought of a female president. Oh well, we need to get over this hump now, and eventually when Fallon is a crazy cat lady grandma we can all laugh about the stir she created.

Like I said, these women are fighters and competitors, they crave challenge and have a deeper understanding between each other than what genitals each was born with. Just like other stories of trans women in sports its always the outside bigots on the sidelines crying rivers and flinging insults.

[JessicaH]

Like I said, these women are fighters and competitors, they crave challenge and have a deeper understanding between each other than what genitals each was born with. Just like other stories of trans women in sports its always the outside bigots on the sidelines crying rivers and flinging insults.

So if anyone thinks there is some sort of unfair advantage here, it makes us transphobic and a bigot?

[muuu]

.

[MaidofOrleans]

So if anyone thinks there is some sort of unfair advantage here, it makes us transphobic and a bigot?

No, just ignorant.

Complaining about fairness in competitive sports is rediculous, no two people are exactly alike, trans or cis, someone's going to have an advantage or disadvantage in some respect.

If you don't like it I can recommend you just watch rock em sock em robots or something.