What are the issues that bother TG people?

[Cindy]

OK big topic.

A few of you know me.

I've been asked to start a site for people in Australia and New Zealand to promote the issues that they face at a political and social levels. It has nothing to do with Susan's. It has no related issues. My commitments to Susan's remains at 100% in every way I contribute to the site.

But although I have specific questions for ANZ people, what are the world wide problems?

I'm not interested in the small problems here (yes I know your problem is major). The major ones. The concept problems. What will affect world political, medical, societal problems?

I'm thinking of the Gates Foundation model. All the money needed to solve the problem financially is available, can you identify the problem and give me a a few sentences about how you would solve it? And if you can, be serious although I am prone to humour on occasions. As you all know I'm not prone to hate in any form.

I will self Mod this thread.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Cindy

[suzifrommd]

Thanks for doing this, Cindy.

To me, it's the fact that it's still acceptable to hate and to advocate lesser rights for LGBT people. Nobody in polite company would dare to suggest that black people, or short people, or people of Albanian origin should not be able to marry their lovers or fight in the army or use a toilet. But here in the US, you regularly hear statements and read news articles by famous people talking about how we shouldn't let gay people marry each other, or serve openly in the military, or let transgender people use the appropriate bathroom. A prominent author even spoke out that it would be a good thing if parents of LGBT youth rejected them.

I'd like to see changes in what society deems acceptable:

Advocating lesser rights for LGBT people is HATE. Period.

Rejecting a child because they are LGBT is child abuse. Should be no less a crime than other types of child abuse.

Making unsubstantiated claims about LGBT people (they can be cured, their condition results from the way they are raised, etc.) is denigration, a form of hate.

[Cindy]

Suzi,

I totally agree.

BUT: How do we change it? I will give you an unlimited budget. We HAVE to work inside the political system of our countries. It will take too long to change otherwise.

OK. I give you all a ten year time frame.

Oh and remember the implications, acceptance, surgery, hormones, how do we treat adolescents (MASSIVE problem), gender equality. same sex marriage, acceptance amongst ourselves!!!! Major problem. 

Define the problems!!!!

[suzifrommd]

Suzi,

I totally agree.

BUT: How do we change it? I will give you an unlimited budget. We HAVE to work inside the political system of our countries. It will take too long to change otherwise.

OK. I give you all a ten year time frame.

Oh and remember the implications, acceptance, surgery, hormones, how do we treat adolescents (MASSIVE problem), gender equality. same sex marriage, acceptance amongst ourselves!!!! Major problem. 

Define the problems!!!!

A good model is the American South. The NAACP not only changed the legal landscape, they changed the social landscape. It was not only illegal to discriminate, it has become socially unacceptable in almost all circles to denigrate people of color.

We need a NAAQP (terrible name, but that's a detail) who not only works to change the laws but also makes it clear that hate against us is no more acceptable than hate against other groups.

In Maryland where I live, we had a vote last year about same-sex marriage, and lots of politicians and religious leaders unabashedly talked about how immoral and unnatural that would be.

No one called them on it. No one spoke up publicly and said that not only were they wrong, but that their words were hateful and antisocial.

We need an organization willing to do that. Each and every time someone speaks out against our rights, someone needs to speak out in an equally wide reaching voice and call them out. Expose their words and actions for what they are.

[RachelH]

If your looking at long term changes designed to reinvent the social structure and gain acceptance, you have to start as young as you can.  Promote and teach, awareness and acceptance of LGBT lifestyles in primary schools upwards, and made compulsory in all schools.  Leading into adult education and training programs for the workplace; aswell as those found to be acting in a discriminatory manor. 

Sounds like I'm advocating approaching a ministry of love, but some serious thought-crimes are happening, less rid the population of these early!

[Cindy]

Quote from Suzi.
No one called them on it. No one spoke up publicly and said that not only were they wrong, but that their words were hateful and antisocial.

We need an organization willing to do that. Each and every time someone speaks out against our rights, someone needs to speak out in an equally wide reaching voice and call them out. Expose their words and actions for what they are.



Who/what  is the organisation? How do we organize it?

[Cindy]

If your looking at long term changes designed to reinvent the social structure and gain acceptance, you have to start as young as you can.  Promote and teach, awareness and acceptance of LGBT lifestyles in primary schools upwards, and made compulsory in all schools.  Leading into adult education and training programs for the workplace; aswell as those found to be acting in a discriminatory manor. 

Sounds like I'm advocating approaching a ministry of love, but some serious thought-crimes are happening, less rid the population of these early!

Fine I agree! How? I've just given you a billion. You see the problems, what are the solutions? I can run forever with you shouldn't do this that or the other. How do you get the opinion to influence Govt to change it.


C

[Antonia J]

One of the issues I have encountered, and have observed others here comment on, is access to counseling resources familiar with recognizing and providing support for transgendered clients.  This is really a two-fold issue.  The first is access to counseling resources, and this could be a function of costs for care, and who pays for it.  The second could be supply of qualified counselors.  I live in a greater metropolitan area with about 600,000 people (in Michigan), and there are only a few counselors who are trained, certified, and experienced in counseling LGBT clients.  Even if your insurance pays for access, the waiting list to see them is lengthy.  My insurance through my employer does not pay (they do pay for gender counseling, but not for these specific providers) and I have made arrangements with one to pay out of pocket.

How do you solve it?  I think there are a few levers you can pull. The first would be to address supply.  If supply increases, costs will fall necessarily. With a billion dollars, you could endow a lot of schools with scholarships to pay for students who want to provide counseling to transgendered people.  You could even target metro areas that are underserved as a condition of the scholarship.  This is almost a win-win-win.  Supply increases, we provide opportunities to those who may not have access to education, and care increases as a result. 

The next would be to address the payers, and this is where things get tricky. I am sure there are studies out there, but if not, then a statistical demonstration of cost/reward needs to be completed.  Why? Because the payers for service (e.g. insurance, national care systems, private payers) need to understand that paying for counseling and related services to ensure someone has a fulfilling and meaningful life is much less expensive than the depression, possible substance abuse, and other negative consequences that would otherwise result. 

Lastly, I think to gather momentum on all fronts, there needs to be a lot of public service announcements explaining what it is, that it is normal, and doctors, professors, business people, moms and dads, and all kinds of every day people deal with gender identity challenges.  Once it becomes a larger part of the mainstream, things like funding and providing access to care for those who face transgender issues are not so controversial.

This is a good topic.  Thanks for asking!

Toni

[Sara Thomas]

Three words: Political Action Committee.

I really kinda hate the way they sidestep the law, and distort elections... but my dislike for them is mostly because it seems that The Right has wielded them most effectively.

If we want representation to "promote the issues [faced at political levels]", then representation is needed at that level.

[JoanneB]

In Maryland where I live, we had a vote last year about same-sex marriage, and lots of politicians and religious leaders unabashedly talked about how immoral and unnatural that would be.

No one called them on it. No one spoke up publicly and said that not only were they wrong, but that their words were hateful and antisocial.

I can't wait to see what happens when SB-449 makes it out of committee and hopefully passes the full Senate. Amazingly this year's hearings had no where near the number of "Bathroom nuts" as last year's.

Perhaps they feel the tide is running against them after the resounding defeat of their attempt to defeat the marriage bill?

[Jayne]

If I had the funds then i'd start a campaign of adverts & billboard posters to get the message across that we may be transitioning but we're still human.

For billboard campaigns i'd have a picture of an early transitioner with slogans such as : I may be trans but i'm still a human being or Being trans doesn't mean I don't have feelings

For TV campaigns i'd show a disabled person or a black person being abused on the streets (either receiving insults or people pointing & laughing) with the voice over saying "we don't accept this behavior in society" cut to the trans person who's doing the voice over "so why is it still acceptable for me to be treated this way"
cut to text with either caption from the billboard campaign

Documentries only work to educate people if they choose to watch & be educated

[Rachel]

Qualifying Perspective

I am a MTF transg* late transition person the therapist says is 1 in 31,000 in general population. She will not label me so I only guess at my part of the transg* spectrum I fit into. With that said, I only know Transg* from my perspective and read and listen about others perspectives. So what I say below is from my perspective.

Transg* offers a fantastic opportunity for business to capitalize on our unique perspective and abilities. We are an elite but small group and have, in general, vastly underutilized talents. Talents businesses have no idea exist and we hide our unique abilities due to embarressment.

Our talents could be hightened, trained and marketed such that businesses would see our value to them and in returm we would have a platform from which we learn, are trained and our talents are focused for mutual benifit.

The Enterprise that employs me does not know I and transg* and there are 15,000 employees ( it would take over 2 organizations our size to have just 1 of me by chance). I am absolutely unique and have unique talents. I would love to mentor a transg* Engineer in my Department. I would love to promote our unique gifts trough helping another achieve and see their uniqueness. I believe my organization would participate and promote such an endeviour. Perhaps resources could be made available to forge a framework of a learning / training / mentoring scolarships. Perhaps joining forces with a nearby University could provide support and enrichment to the process. I think this is a real possibility and I would be willing to participate.

[Padma]

Educate teachers. Educate parents. Educate the media, the cinema industry... Target the role models of future generations of the public who could then respond with more love and care towards those seemingly different from them.

[Randi]

If the public were educated and more accepting of gender-variant people, perhaps much less counseling would be needed.

As far as I know, counseling can't make a transsexual person into a cissexual person.  If all they can do it provide you with coping strategies to get along in the world, maybe the world needs to change.

Imagine a counselor advising a black person in the 1930's how to behave in order to place the white people and not cause a stir.  Or a counselor subjecting a gay man to aversion therapy in the 1960's.

Randi   

One of the issues I have encountered, and have observed others here comment on, is access to counseling resources familiar with recognizing and providing support for transgendered clients.
Toni

[kelly_aus]

First issue I'd deal with, from an Australian perspective, would be to remove the Court's from the equation for the treatment of minors.

[Antonia J]

Imagine a counselor advising a black person in the 1930's how to behave in order to place the white people and not cause a stir.  Or a counselor subjecting a gay man to aversion therapy in the 1960's.

Forgive me, but that was not really the point I was making.  My counselor helped me figure out my gender identity conflicts, plan a course of coming out to my family and friends, and accept myself for the way I am.  She was not trying to "cure" me into being cisgendered, but is helping me with my transition.

[suzifrommd]

BUT: How do we change it? I will give you an unlimited budget. We HAVE to work inside the political system of our countries. It will take too long to change otherwise.

OK, I'm going to revive this two-week-old thread because I think the story at Smith College is a good example of what could be done. It's a great place to make the point that transwomen and transmen need to be accepted as women and men.

Right now Smith seems to be taking the "never apologize, never explain" route. They need to be shamed away from that route. The plight of Ms. Wong needs an airing in mainstream media. Letters to the editor, ads in major papers, topics on talk shows, etc.

Right now it's pretty much under everyone's radar except the Trans community. If we had an advocacy organization with some muscle (and some funding), this would be the time for them to act. How about placing ads in newspapers, having famous people speak up, making the case that Wong isn't a sort-of woman or a maybe woman or a make-believe woman, she's a "real" woman in the every way a woman can be real? Get people talking about it. Every person who can put themselves in her place and imagine not being accepted by members of their own gender is someone who can be won over.

[Jess42]

Unlimited funds? Just advertise, advertise and advertise again. We all fly to different areas together and instead of parades, outcries, and so on, just be ourselves and show other groups that even though transgendered that we are just as diverse politically, socially and etnically as everyone else is. I am not left winged and I am not right wing. I love my guns and shooting, but I also like nail polish and lace. That I share as much conservativism when it comes to the national debt as I believe that we should be able to marry who we want to marry, as long as it's after at least 25 yrs of age. of course

I don't know for sure but I do think that most people form ideas about us from what they see through Television and that we as a group aren't confined to the stereotypes for entertainment purposes.

[Lesley_Roberta]

I think the BIGGEST issue (that confronts me at least) is this.

And while I know we tend to write it as LGBTG (or something of a sort), I find I am not really in the same world as homosexuals to a point.

If I told my buddies, hey guys, I'm coming out, I'm as queer as the day is long, I want to do it with guys (I'm not, this is an example ), the thing is, I likely would have less trouble, as society has apparently largely gotten used to the idea that homophobia is not wise at the legal level. You can get in serious trouble being anti homosexual.

But I'm not homosexual in the usual sense of the word. I like girls yes, and that makes the situation convoluted yes, but, I'm sitting in a male form, and of course my saying I like girls would be like a FTM saying they like boys. The audience won't find it 'weird'. Well of course you do they will think. But my saying I AM a woman, regardless of what you see in the change room, well society has not gotten even close to a point where they can wrap their heads around the idea that penises and vaginas don't mean a damn thing in determining what a person is.

And they don't (mean anything that is).

I suppose the problem is, it completely destroys the very nature of all the dogma driven society we are stuck living in. And it makes them come to grips with a very difficult problem. You can't tell what a person is just by looking at ANY part of them.

I'm currently sitting here in pants marketed to males, and a male targeted polo tshirt. The pants are a dark navy blue mono colour cargo pants design. The polo shirt is canary yellow and also mono colour. I don't like much in the way of any pattern or image on my clothing. I like plain slates. But I am also wearing two earrings on my collars (I don't have pierced ears yet). And I have the matching necklace. Very nice, very ultimately female, very pretty, and it is delicate has roses, pearls, and zircons in the design.
Some might wonder, 'why am I wearing woman's jewellery?'.

Because I'm a woman.

But your a man? It's an easy mistake to make, the hair does tend to suggest it.

Can't help the hair, I am thinking of seeing if the wig I like can come in my colour and with signs of going gray built in to make it look relevant to my age. I don't want it to scream out 'coloured'.

But what vexes me, is, when I get seen, I do tend to wonder, do they think 'must be gay'?, all because I seem to be acting female to their perceptions? Because it is not exactly a stretch to think that society is only aware of straight and homosexual as if there are actually no other options.

I have actually wondered if most gay males don't even look half as 'female' as me. I am not a guy looking for a guy. I have no insight to the gay viewpoint. I would imagine gays are ok with being guys, that just want other guys.

I suppose if I wasn't suffering such intense dislike of men (as I do suffer), I might be entirely different in how I act.

[Kaelin]

Big things?

TGs need a safe place.  Sometimes we even need to be saved from each other, but we need an environment where we can free ourselves of institutions, families, friends, media, religions, businesses, governments, parties and so forth that ultimately keeping us from developing into who we are deep down (whether they fight us directly or seek to keep us in tacit dependence).  For some people, this place needs to be their home, at least for a while, but the essence is that they have a place where they can come to and fall back on in case they try to fight the good fight but ultimately need a safety net and a place to regroup when things go bad.  Children in particular may be hard to separate from a bad environment (since parents get an awful lot of slack to stifle their kids, typically unwittingly, and also typically without the kid understanding what's going on), but young adults cut loose can easily be lost in a world where they need to take responsibility but still don't know themselves and often deal with being regarded as outcasts even when they do figure themselves out.

Another worthwhile measure may be to educate the hell out of the population on what TG really is.  Fight those billions upon billions of dollars spent by institutions towards diminishing people outside the cisgender norm with our own messages and genuine portrayals of what TG is all about.  If the MPAA makes it virtually impossible to get our movies out to our audiences (by slapping on R- or NC-17 ratings), then if the MPAA cannot be taken down in court (as a monopoly/trust via anti-trust law), then we need a competing media industry that would at least hold its own against its competitors, but ideally it would either drown out or assimilate our competitors.  Given that society generally operates according to the credo "might makes right," let's go with the idea that our might actually is right (and be sure we keep it that way), and then use it with the same tenacity that our opponents use.  But for good! :-p