Transgender inmate wins hearing appeal

[EmmaS]

Our justice system is flawed indefinitely, but I'm pretty sure the heavy majority of inmates are guilty, but as for the few who are innocent and for whatever reason are in jail, that is an injustice to them and just shows a flaw. I think the concept of innocent before proven guilty has been lost and it's more guilty unless proven innocent which is unfair.

[Brooke777]

What about an innocent person wrongly convicted? Is your philosophy as simple as: that's tough. Sucks to be you?

No, its not. But, I don't believe that those who did commit the crime should be rewarded with better accommodations just to suit those who were wrongfully convicted. I will be the first to admit that our legal/justice system is far, far from perfect. If it was perfect, no one would be wrongfully convicted, no one would get off on a technicality, and law enforcement would always catch the bad guy before they committed another crime.

[Brooke777]

I think the concept of innocent before proven guilty has been lost and it's more guilty unless proven innocent which is unfair.

I totally agree with this. It is quite sad, IMHO, that we have lost our way in this area.

[crazy at the coast]

Keep in mind, there pretty much has to an assumption of guilt before someone is even arrested for a crime, so the whole innocent before proven has always been just a nice thing to say, but not really true.

[Kevin Peña]

There is a sentiment of innocent until proven guilty. The point is that while you are suspected, no one can actually convict you until you are proven guilty. The point is to remain a suspect, meaning that there is a possibility that the accuser can be wrong.

[Jamie D]

What about an innocent person wrongly convicted? Is your philosophy as simple as: that's tough. Sucks to be you?

In the United States there are approximately 2.3 million people incarcerated, and another 5.0 million under some sort of supervision (parole, probation).

The number of people who are released each year because the were "wrongly convicted" is so low, that it is statistically insignificant.

Establishing prison policy around the unlikely chance an innocent person will be incarcerated is self-defeating.

[Sarah Louise]

I'll go back to what I said earlier, If and when the government pays for ALL gender surgery, then I won't have a problem with prisoners getting it.

Until then they do Not deserve better healthcare then we get.

[Zumbagirl]

Until then they do Not deserve better healthcare then we get.

I paid almost every single penny of my own money on my transition. About the only thing I could get covered was a handful of therapy sessions every year. Every year I see my endo and pay the bill on the way out the door. I pay for the bloodwork although I have noticed in the last few years my insurance covered it. My depo-estradiol has never been covered under any insurance and I have paid for it all myself for the last 15 odd years. YET I never complained that I want this or that thing for free. I just worked harder and it made it all the better since I never had to depend on the kindness of strangers.

Other than that I was on my own including my srs. These people are seeing shrinks and getting the letters and approvals just like I did so I say why not?

In my mind the srs itself was not the expensive part of the transition anyways. If the state or government health care system offers it as a covered service and they met all of the requirements then why not? The system is changing anyways and more and more insurance is covering the surgery anyways. I guess there are enough of us in the world that the old prejudiced views are dying off.

Still I have no problem with it being covered by taxpayers. I guess I must be one of the few who see this as a positive step forward for the cause?

[Dawn Heart]

I am with ZumbaGirl on this entire argument. We MUST put emotional reactions and personal judgement aside to see the real issues at play here. We have a transgender inmate who identified as trans BEFORE being imprisoned, and we have a justice system, political system, and prison system trying to define medically necessary treatment as simply hormone therapy and nothing more.

As all of us know, not all trans people will require SRS/GRS, but those who do should have it. Zumba Girl made a good point when she talked about the power of others to decide that YOU can't have your surgery based on arbitrary reasoning. Let us ask ourselves what has gone so wrong in our culture and so wrong in our hearts that we can easily look away and pretend not to see that people in a prison who have made bad choices and may or may not be guilty of whatever crimes they were convicted of, are still human beings deserving of mercy, compassion, and kindness?

Do not forget that any of us can easily be accused of any given crime at any time, and end up in the system. Our system of trial and conviction is a joke! Do any of you know that it is sooo easy for the state to try and convict someone on any given criminal charge that there is no credibility in convictions anymore? We can guess all we want that the heavy weight  of the prison population is guilty all we want, but, we HAVE to stop right there! The reason is obvious!

To deny someone medical care simply because of a criminal conviction and because they are in prison is tantamount to 8th and 14th amendment violations. There has to be medically necessary treatment, it has to be done via due process and  equal protection of the law.

Zumba Girl has personally taken on the one remaining vocal force in her state who wants to deny all of us our gender identities (if memory serves me right)  in the form of "she who shall not be named" and did it at great personal risk since "she who shall not be named" is quite off her rocker as she has clearly demonstrated to all of us on an international basis. Before you deny someone medical treatment that they absolutely need, simply based on criminal history or being in a prison...think about your own life, put yourself in this inmate's shoes, and decide how YOU would want to be treated.

Maybe this is a GOOD thing, because if Kosilek gets her surgery for free, it could open the doors for all trans-identified people to have access to SRS/GRS in the non-prison sector of society for free. I think a society should absolutely take care of its population with needs when they can't pay for it. GRS/SRS is NOT an elective thing, it isn't cosmetic, it isn't a fetish, this is very real.   

[Brooke777]

It is not very easy to convict someone of a crime. I know this from personal experience. I am former Federal Law Enforcement. The amount of work that went into each conviction is stagering. To ensure we had the right person we would investigate them for months if not years. If there was any doubt in any of our minds we would continue to investigate. Please, do not sell law enforcement short.

The US is a long way away from universal health care. Due to this, I think law abiding citizens should receive medical care before criminals. I do not understand why criminals can get better medical care than the majority of the US population. For the most part, only upper middle class and upper class citizens can afford all the medical care they need. Until this type of problem is fixed, criminals do not deserve better treatment than the rest of us.

[OlivierDeSillegue]

To me, it all boils down to this: Health care should not be charged. It should be something that nations prioritize in over such things as weapons. It comes down to the fact that money is spent and squandered each and every way for every frivolity and the reality is that what matters most is more often than not neglected.

I read all of these posts before mine and can't help to think how lucky I am to be living in Canada. Even though our system has some flaws, we do have excellent health coverage. I'm really lucky that it is in place because even without the gender disphoria, I'd be in a sorry state indeed without it, being a chronic bronchitic asthmatic. It it was not for that coverage... who knows where I would be now?

I think that the inmate should be made to work to some measure to obtain the SRS. It could be anything, really, anything both to teach them how to reinsert in society and to show them that there is nothing given in life.

Still, my heart goes out to all my brothers and sisters out there who suffer living in the wrong gender because of lack of funds to be able to get HRT or SRS. And to all of those who spilled sweat and blood to be able to live in the gender they were meant to have all along.

[Angela???]

Australia seems to be a little different with our jail system (or is it goal Poms for ya!) We don't have the 3 strikes your out rule here, we try to rehabilitate the people that are in jail. Most of the people that I know that have been to jail, are only in for driving or assult charges and drugs growing/dealing charges. We do not lock people up for being on drugs, we try to help them get off the drugs. Looking in from the outside from another country, the USA seems very hard on victimless crimes IE: drug users. I understand that more serious crime should be punished but the USA seems very harsh with the criminal code!

In Australia we have a safety net for medication for people that have a health care card supplyed by the gov. Once you reach $1500.00 then the medication becomes free. A lot of medication is on the PBS seem, asthma medication etc. The gov supplies the medication at a reduced price depending on the medication. For example my depression tablets only cost me $5.90Au or Panamax pain relief tablets cost me $5.90 for 3 box's of 100 tablets, same for my wife's asthma medication, save us a lot of money. Some of the medication is very expensive and the people that really need it would not be able to have access if it were not for the health system that Australia has in place, got to love Australia!
As far as surgery costs go, they can be claimed back through the tax system, seeing that 1 of my friends had srs she was able to claim most of her surgery costs at tax time. She thought this to be fantastic!

So like all country's we have good points and bad points, but at least we have a free health system, even if it's not the best, but we still have one!

[Shana A]

Reminder of Rule 15

15. Items under discussion shall be confined to the subject matter at hand, members shall avoid taking the other users posts personally, and/or posting anything that can reasonably be construed as a personal attack.

News Admin

[OlivierDeSillegue]

Reminder of Rule 15

News Admin

I'm worried now, did I write anything that could be insulting to anyone? 

[Shana A]

I'm worried now, did I write anything that could be insulting to anyone? 

Not to worry, the posts in question were deleted.

[formerMTF]

These cases are mainly because prison authorities haven't consider at all more humane placement practices. They are currenly seeking a case law precedent to make sex classification solely based on the precence of the y-chromsome.

[Dawn Heart]

I haven't been here for a good while, and just logged in to see that I had a warning for something that I allegedly said in this thread. Whatever it was that was taken as offensive, please allow my apologies, as I did not intend to come off that way. I want my fellow posters here and the moderators here to know that I respect others, and am sorry again for whatever it was that got taken as offensive.