Use of improper pronouns and name Huge update!!!

[bethany]

I talked to the ombudsman today about the home calling me by my birth name and not the name I wish to be addressed as. I also sent out an email to a home that I know is LGBT friendly to see how they would handle the situation. Waiting for a reply from both.  I am tired of the home's lack of respect for my wishes. I understand that I am the first trans resident here and that the place needs to get accustomed to that, but at the same time they need to at least make an effort in my eyes. Which they are not.   

[=celestica=]

I'm starting to ask the staff where I live to call me by the name I have chosen for myself and the proper pronouns that go with it.  I see myself as a woman though I'm not presenting as such right now. I'm more androgynous at the moment. Anyway one aid says to me tonight that I will be a guy in her eyes until I either legaly change my name or have the operation. Grrrr she got under my skin. I told her it all about how I perceive myself. She should have enough respect for that. But no she thinks it's her way or no way.  With no regard to what others think.

Tomorrow I'm going to the head of nursing and ask him to inform his staff that from here on out I wish to be called Bethany or Beth, and use the pronouns that go along with those names by staff. I know most of the residents wont understand it and thats fine but the staff should show me the respect that I deserve.

Is it unreasonable to request this?

You have a beard shadow.
You're not presenting female.
You most likely don't have a female voice(or the mannerisms)
You're only TWO months on hrt()
I'm assuming you have been working there for a long time as a man..

You want people to see you and address you as a female...?
I'm sorry but keep reading the above over and over and you just might understand.

[bethany]

I dont work here, I live here. I am on a very limited budget. And what exactly is presenting? When you are home how do you dress? Do you wear a skirt and blouse or a dress? or do you put on a comfy pair of shorts and tee shirt or tank top? If it's a bit colder sweatpants and a sweat shirt, maybe a pair of jeans?

[Joanna Dark]

Bethany, I understand what you're saying, but =celestica= does have a point: you're not presenting as female at the moment. People gender you on what they see and if this is really important to you, you should think about going full time. That would remove any doubt as to what you want to be gendered as without having to tell anyone. I get gendered female sometimes but I'm pretty andro and people do it and don't even notice. I think it's a pretty subconscious act. For me, I want people to gender me as female without having to tell them. In your case, I do think going full-time will help address your concerns. I mean if you're telling people you're transitioning and stuff, why not? And by full-time I mean wearing female clothes and makeup. Try to cover up your beard shadow and stuff.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Beth's requests and expectations would be unrealistic with persons passing on the street that have no idea who Beth is.

But the people that Beth works with all day long, day after day, they know Beth personally.

Yes Beth has beard shadow. And that is as relevant as a penis and testicles.

Beth has made it known she is Beth.

Short of the people being unfriendly and unwilling, does it need to come to Beth also asking if they are also merely clueless and *&@# stupid as well?

I clearly have to shave. I clearly shave quite close too.
I most definitely don't have a woman's voice.
I suffer male pattern hair loss.

It's not easy to just be female in a male form. And it isn't easy to be male in a female form.
It's like the guys coping with a great set of hooters and not amused to have to cope with having them.
Hey I'd love to have a set of d cups to put in a bra. I think my wife would like a set of D cups herself
I think most FTM guys would love to be able to unzip and take a pee casually while walking home from the bar against the wall behind a dumpster. It's a common thing for guys to be able to do.

I don't hold it against people that mistake me for what I look like.
It only pisses me off when I get no cooperation from people that have had it told to them multiple times.
In Beth's position, I'd likely be remarking that my coworkers that were not cooperating, were likely intellectually challenged but termed in a manner a lot nastier than that in all likelihood.

[Lesley_Roberta]

As for presenting on a daily basis.

This is how I present on a daily basis.

I have a shirt on.

It's all I have on.

And if the day passes 80 degrees, I might not have the shirt on.

Past 90 and I might be wearing a wet towel on my shoulders.

Unless I have the advantage of A/C.

Yeah, but naked tends to kill any form of 'passing' as female. The sex organs tend to do that.

But, if people are TOLD specifically and in no vague terms, there is no excuse.

[Joanna Dark]

The thing is the beard shadow can be dealt with quite easily. Also, no one sees your junk on a daily basis. I think it's a question of having your cake and eating too, i.e. you want to be addressed as female, but make no effort to look the part.

And I'm not trying to offend everyone, I just think that gendering is a two-way street and if you tell people you want to be gendered as female, you should try to present that way as well. It makes it easier. Now if she is presenting as female and people still gender her as male, that is a different thing completely.

Plus, isn't presenting as female the whole point? Or presenting as male for an FTM? For me, I would want to transition if I was the last person on earth. It's not just about people.

[bethany]

Plus, isn't presenting as female the whole point? Or presenting as male for an FTM?

Isn't the whole point being comfortable with yourself? Again who in their home puts on makeup and dresses up for a night on the town?

Can I look more the part sure if I want to spend money on makeup instead of saving it for electrolysis.

[brainiac]

I personally take issue with the idea that Beth has to present as female (beyond her ability right now) in order to be referred to with the name and pronouns that are right for her. People have a right to ask for whatever words they want to be used. Other people don't have to believe us or take us seriously--we're just asking them to change the words that they use. That's simple politeness.  I think that what Beth is asking for is especially appropriate given that she plans to transition.

I'm a female-bodied, male(ish)-identified person who is not on HRT, nor do I plan to be. I attempt to present as masculine, feminine, and gender-neutral depending on how I feel. But I look like a girl even when I'm trying to look masculine and I've come to accept that. People on the street will unfortunately almost always misgender me as a woman. Does that mean that I don't have the right to ask for gender-neutral or male pronouns? Am I obligated to dress a particular way because of my identity? I don't think so, and frankly the fear of this mentality--that in order to change my name or pronouns I need to change the way I look to be considered legitimate--is part of the reason I haven't done those things yet.

Beth, I think it's very brave of you to stick up for yourself and tell people what you need from them, especially when you're at a stage where they're more likely to doubt you. I agree that it's about what makes you comfortable. We shouldn't conflate gender presentation with gender identity, even though they usually line up.

[Joanna Dark]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone I was just trying to help. I just think you will catch more bees with honey than vinegar. That's it. It was a suggestion.

[brainiac]

I'm sorry if my post came off as upset--it wasn't directed at you, Joanna (or anyone else in particular). Maybe it's because my avatar is grumpy-looking...
But I totally get where you're coming from, I just wanted to give input from a different angle.

[Joanna Dark]

I loveloveLOVE your avatar! it's the coolest, even if he is a lil grumpy lol no worries, BTW.

[Jamie D]

I think the bottom like is that each and every one of us, because we are civilized humans, are due a level of respect and common courtesy from our fellow beings.

"Sir" and "Ma'am" were courtesies I learned growing up.  Just as "please," "thank you," and "you're welcome."  If someone asks me to address them in a certain, polite way, I do my best to oblige them.  We all should.

Regards,
Miss Manners

[Devlyn]

Beth, you originally spoke to them last month, they're aware of your transition, aware of your HRT, aware of your choice of name and pronouns. But people are stubborn as mules, it might take awhile for the true skidmarks to come around. Take the good with the bad, and keep working them over with that smile! Hugs, Devlyn

[=celestica=]

Beth, you originally spoke to them last month, they're aware of your transition, aware of your HRT, aware of your choice of name and pronouns. But people are stubborn as mules, it might take awhile for the true skidmarks to come around. Take the good with the bad, and keep working them over with that smile! Hugs, Devlyn

The world(people) don't work that way.
I think it's annoying when trans people think they don't have to do a thing to pass.
YES, of course you have to present the gender you want to be referred as.
I kind of laughed when someone said that wasn't necessary.
Don't complain when you aren't trying.

I've been transitioning for over 2 years and have been on HRT for 1.5 and my family still calls me by my male name and pronouns and even though it does bother me I know it's not my fault.
That's when you can say people are being stubborn.
But Bethany is the stubborn one here.

[Devlyn]

The world(people) don't work that way.
I think it's annoying when trans people think they don't have to do a thing to pass.
YES, of course you have to present the gender you want to be referred as.
I kind of laughed when someone said that wasn't necessary.
Don't complain when you aren't trying.

I've been transitioning for over 2 years and have been on HRT for 1.5 and my family still calls me by my male name and pronouns and even though it does bother me I know it's not my fault.
That's when you can say people are being stubborn.
But Bethany is the stubborn one here.

It's common for youth to feel that they somehow have more life experience than someone more than double their age. But keep waiting, the Maturity Train will be along to pick you up.............one of these days.

[=celestica=]

It's common for youth to feel that they somehow have more life experience than someone more than double their age. But keep waiting, the Maturity Train will be along to pick you up.............one of these days.

Who's the one that lives successfully as female here?

[Devlyn]

Me. I go to work as Mike, and they call me Devlyn anyway. Hugs, Mike

[Lesley_Roberta]

Yes and no.

I could just not shave as it is a hassle, and a bother.

But come on, nothing says male quite like facial hair.

So I keep it shaved.

I don't own any nice female clothes, yet. But it has not stopped me from embellishing what I have. I have not had the chance to get my ears pierced, but, I have enjoyed wearing my earrings on my shirt collars, and I think it looks really nice actually. That and the necklace do tend to scream out 'not the guy you think I am'.

I carry a purse, and I make no bones about it being one. It's a purse, I am a woman so what is weird about it being a purse and me carrying it essentially being my attitude. People telling me 'guys carry purses too' well whoopdeedoo for them I suspect most people think actual men carrying a purse are likely either considered wimps, gay or variations of both. Not a problem for me, as I am not a man eh.

I think over all, you are not required to perform for anyone at all. But you can't expect much enthusiasm with no effort.
I consider going out of the house without having had a bath and washing my hair is more important than wearing a skirt though.
It's just me, I think women smell nice and men are expected to be smelly and sweaty. Stereo types? Likely.

But preconceived notions is what we are dealing with all the time.

How vital it is to look female drives how far some of us will go for that illusion.

In my perfect future, I am not covered in girlie, I am covered in sawdust actually.
I would rather be in a wood shop and not surrounded by people admiring my legs.
I would prefer the only time people saw me at all looking pretty, was maybe once a week out dancing.
But alas, my life is not that way.

Tonight, I will be working on a model, watching TV and not looking one iota female in the process no doubt.
But it's only me in the room.
And I already know I am female in a male form.
It's not like I can hide it from myself.

[Cindy]

How people present is unimportant. Accepting yourself is. Transitioning (hate the word) is not how you look or how you present, it is how you accept yourself.

Bethany you may may wish to show it to the staff of your nursing home. I realise you are in a difficult situation in many different respects but you are a woman and a person who has dignity and pride, both of which demand respect.

I shall post this again.

As others have said transgender is not a choice it is part of you, like your skin colour your ethnicity your eye colour. It isn't something you can switch on or off. Though many of us try.

I thought I'd copy this from the Australian sex discrimination laws, some of the best in the world, but it states what Australian law considers a legal transgender person, they are copied from www.gendercentre.org.au and excellent resource for transgender people.


Who is counted as transgender under anti-discrimination law?

If you live, have lived, or want to live as a member of the opposite gender (sex) to your birth gender, the  anti-discrimination law counts you as transgender. This means you are legally counted as transgender if:

·   you want to live as a member of your preferred gender (the opposite gender to your birth gender);

·   you are in the process of changing over to your preferred gender;

·   you live as a member of your preferred gender;

·   you have lived as a member of your preferred gender in the past; or

·   you are intersexual (born with indeterminate sex, for example, with sexual parts of both sexes) and you live as a member of your preferred gender.

You do not have to have had any sex-change or other surgery. You do not have to have taken any hormones in the past or be taking them now. It does not matter what your gender was at birth.

It does not matter which gender is your preferred gender. It does not matter why you are transgender. It does not matter how you describe or label yourself (for example, as transgender, ->-bleeped-<-, transsexual or something else).

What matters is how you live and behave, or how you want to live and behave. If you fit any one of the "rules" listed above, then the anti-discrimination law counts you as transgender.

No where in this does it mention what you look like.

No where in this does it mention how you sound.

Your sex and your gender are in your brain, they sit next to your dignity.

Just my thoughts.

Cindy