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(Graphic content) Photos of SRS performed by Dr. Suporn Watanyusakul in Thailand

Started by tinkerbell, May 25, 2007, 07:27:27 PM

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Flan

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rexgsd

i did a calculator (im horrible at math!) and it actually came out to 63 :/
i guess it depends what month he was born
☥fiat justitia ruat coelum☥

"Girls will be boys, and boys will be girls. Its a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world." - The Kinks

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Flan

Quote from: LordKAT on April 11, 2010, 11:55:21 PM
That was what I thought but  1947 to 2010,  math doesn't add up to 72

http://www.savaperovic.com/

hmm
american free press also says 72
(from earlier link)
Perovic was born in 1937 in Belgrade, where he finished overall education (Faculty of Medicine, Ph.D., specialization in pediatric surgery and urology).
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LordKAT

Oh well, 72 it is then. I picked a page with an error.  Either way , he is gone and I wish he wasn't.
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Meshi

Quote from: Kristyn on April 11, 2010, 10:14:07 PM
So, what is it that differentiates Shrangs technique from the rest?  Are you happy with the results Meltzer gave you?

I think calling all the other surgeons doing srs  'butchers' is pretty harsh, many do good work.
I am just quoting what he (Dr.Shrang) said on the phone that is all. I was kind of shocked too, as that is a pretty harsh word to use, but that is how he felt so who am i to refute someone of such skills.  As far as there being "alot" of surgeons that do good work..?? It all depends on what you mean by "good".  I have spent a small fortune on myself, and i look for perfection, not good.  I did not just want to go with someone because they are on reality TV, TG, or because alot of TG's are say how great someone is when i do not now know by seeing actual ppl (and i have ways of finding ppl that will show) and looking at exact photos.  I do NOT go by hearsay. Lol, i do not know the techniques he used, im sure that he would not tell a lay person, but he was 2 stage i do know that.   I can speak for Dr.Shrang's work, because i have seen it on a "live" patient and in photos.  I have not seen anyone now that replicates a genetic females anatomy like he did. As far as Perovic, i taked to him several times, but his website contained i believe mostly that of FTM not MTF, so imo it seemed like it was more his forte, but Dr. Shrang seemed to think that that he was the only one now/well past tense now, that was anywhere near what he considered up to par with what he did.  I do ALOT of research and when i speak it is not from hearsay.  As far as Dr. Meltzer..I am pretty much happy..although i have had some issues ( still ongoing) that i will not go into detail on an open forum with.  I am not that far out post-op to give a final conclusion.  I am not in favor of 2 stage over single stage though, because from what i have been reading, hearing, it may provide a more anatomical genetic outcome.
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Flan

Perovic's technique was an interesting urethral flap modified inversion. before Dr.Shrang's website was removed, he had a note about it, explaining how he didn't like it.

QuoteThe Mucosal Flap

As M/F Sex Reassignment developed in my hands, I realized that there is very little mucosa present in the genetic male's genitalia as opposed to the genetic female. All that there is lines the Urethra; therefore, precious little exists and every effort should be made to preserve as much of it as possible for aesthetic and functional use.

For this reason I make sure that mucosa extends from the urethral opening upward to cover the Clitoris and some of the Labia Minora; but more is available that can be utilized and this additional mucosa can be incorporated into the skin graft as a mucosal flap but only if a graft is used.

Because of the way the anatomy is structured, a mucosal flap cannot be used if there is no graft. The flap eventually ends up deep within the neo-vagina and theoretically should secret fluid for lubrication just like it is observed to cause wetness between the Clitoris to the Urethral opening.

Microscopically, there are few secretory glands in the Urethral mucosa but virtually everyone who ever had one done and reported back states that they have had good self lubrication. Keep in mind, however, that many patients who never had a mucosal flap self lubricate; this most likely is due to the fact that skin, when placed within the body, becomes more "mucosa-like" and could secrete some fluid. This lubricating fluid probably comes from Cowper's glands which are left intact and secretions from the Prostate Gland which, of course, is not removed.

Because the dissection of the flap is tedious and time-consuming, more is charged for its construction and incorporation into the graft.

Is it worth it? Frankly, I am not completely convinced that it works that well in spite of all the good reports and probably would not have it myself. It is done only upon request.

Quote
Vaginoplasty in male transsexuals using penile skin and a urethral flap
S.V. PEROVIC, D.S. STANOJEVIC and M.L.J. DJORDJEVIC
Belgrade Gender Dysphoria Team, University of Belgrade, Yugoslavia

Objectives
To describe and present the results of a one-stage vaginoplasty in male-to-female sex reassignment surgery.

Patients and methods
The present technique is based on penile disassembly and the use of all penile components for vaginoplasty (except the corpora cavernosa). The neovagina consists of two parts; a long vascularized urethral flap and a pedicled island tube skin flap created from the penile skin. The urethral flap is embedded into the skin tube. The tube, consisting of skin and the urethral flap, is inverted, thus forming the neovagina. The new vagina is inserted into the previously prepared perineal cavity between the urethra, bladder and rectum. The neovagina is then fixed to the sacrospinous ligament. The labia minora and majora are formed from remaining penile and scrotal skin. The new method was used in 89 patients (mean age 28 years, range 18±56) with a mean (range) follow-up of 4.6 (0.25±6) years.

Results
Good cosmetic and functional results were obtained in 77 of the 89 patients (87%). Importantly, the neovagina produced in most patients was of satisfactory depth and width. There was only one major complication, a rectovaginal fistula caused by intraoperative injury to the rectum.

Conclusions
The technique produces a vagina with more normal anatomical and physiological characteristics than those produced by other methods, as all the penile components are used (except for the corpora cavernosa) to form almost normal external female genitalia. Vaginoplasty using pedicled penile skin with a urethral flap is a good alternative to other methods of vaginoplasty in male-to-female sex reassignment surgery.

edit: rest of surgery info here
http://www.mediafire.com/?dlzzunnzmzo
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Kristyn

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 13, 2010, 02:04:53 PM
I am just quoting what he (Dr.Shrang) said on the phone that is all. I was kind of shocked too, as that is a pretty harsh word to use, but that is how he felt so who am i to refute someone of such skills.  As far as there being "alot" of surgeons that do good work..?? It all depends on what you mean by "good".


I guess I'm just using good in the universal sense--by good and bad I mean exceptional and pitiful respectively.


Quote
I have spent a small fortune on myself, and i look for perfection, not good.  I did not just want to go with someone because they are on reality TV, TG, or because alot of TG's are say how great someone is when i do not now know by seeing actual ppl (and i have ways of finding ppl that will show) and looking at exact photos. 

And judging by your avatar you look fantastic.  It is very hard to find people who are willing to show you their results.  I've tried--perhaps my approach was wrong.  I like most others have to rely on the written experiences posted here and on other forums.  During my consult with Brassard I asked if he has photos of his recent results.  His reply was no, but after seeing the discouragement on my face, he obliged to showing me what he has--all of which I've seen before.  He did, however elaborate on those photos.


Quote
I do NOT go by hearsay. Lol, i do not know the techniques he used, im sure that he would not tell a lay person, but he was 2 stage i do know that.   I can speak for Dr.Shrang's work, because i have seen it on a "live" patient and in photos.  I have not seen anyone now that replicates a genetic females anatomy like he did. As far as Perovic, i taked to him several times, but his website contained i believe mostly that of FTM not MTF, so imo it seemed like it was more his forte, but Dr. Shrang seemed to think that that he was the only one now/well past tense now, that was anywhere near what he considered up to par with what he did.  I do ALOT of research and when i speak it is not from hearsay.

I'm not disputing that, I believe you.  I can, to some degree, understand what Dr. Shrang is implying with his statement as well.  It was very different twenty years ago, even ten years ago.  As the fore runners of modern day srs and ffs procedures begin to retire, I think we will begin to see more of a shift from surgeries being performed to benefit trans people to surgeries being performed strictly for commercial gain.  However, I'm still pretty confident with Brassard's work and the only other doctor I would choose would be Meltzer.


Quote
As far as Dr. Meltzer..I am pretty much happy..although i have had some issues ( still ongoing) that i will not go into detail on an open forum with.

Would you discuss it in a PM, or not at all?

Quote
I am not that far out post-op to give a final conclusion.

How long have you been post op?
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Meshi

Quote from: Kristyn on April 13, 2010, 07:15:38 PM
I guess I'm just using good in the universal sense--by good and bad I mean exceptional and pitiful respectively.


And judging by your avatar you look fantastic.  It is very hard to find people who are willing to show you their results.  I've tried--perhaps my approach was wrong.  I like most others have to rely on the written experiences posted here and on other forums.  During my consult with Brassard I asked if he has photos of his recent results.  His reply was no, but after seeing the discouragement on my face, he obliged to showing me what he has--all of which I've seen before.  He did, however elaborate on those photos.


I'm not disputing that, I believe you.  I can, to some degree, understand what Dr. Shrang is implying with his statement as well.  It was very different twenty years ago, even ten years ago.  As the fore runners of modern day srs and ffs procedures begin to retire, I think we will begin to see more of a shift from surgeries being performed to benefit trans people to surgeries being performed strictly for commercial gain.  However, I'm still pretty confident with Brassard's work and the only other doctor I would choose would be Meltzer.


Would you discuss it in a PM, or not at all?

How long have you been post op?
Ok, i will elaborate alittle further.  For one, yes it is good to go on forums or any avenue to seek answers/questions, gain knowledge, but it is up to you to decide if these ppl making these awesome remarks are just ecstatic young ppl that are just elated from just having the SRS done or speaking in terms of what is good from very good work.  I have heard alot of TG for instance say that they are getting 7-8" from Dr. Suporn and even getting orgasmic a few days aft surgery, and with very, very sensitive not only clitoral area, but out/inner vaginal areas.  I tend to doubt such quickness, but then when you hear more than one person saying the same things you tend to wonder, but you have to also consider age ranges of these patients and other variables.  It could be true, but i do not think it would be the "norm".  Also, his technique kinda of alters depth to make it seem like you are gaining more depth when in fact you are not.  Also, within the healing process, one will almost always loose some depth due to the natural healing process.  I am just using an example here.  I can understand ppl not willing to show, as ppl may make neg comments or post them up for other ppl to see, so you would have to really know the person well imo.  It has not been more than two years since i talked with Dr. Shrang, so his comment was not based on old techniques. Like i said above, I have seen his work upfront.  I know a person that showed me her vagina and it imo, and i am a perfectionist, was absolutely perfect.  This person that showed me is in her mid 50's and her vagina looks as of a woman in her late 20's.  And no it is not a genetic issue, because i have seen other parts of this person.  No we didnt have a sexual relationship.  I am saying all this, because i know what ppl think when i say ive see this persons parts, but she was just being helpful, clearly just a friend.  If you are confident with Brassard's work then go with your gut.  If you have done the necessary research, it still does not guarantee the outcome you might expect, as everyone's anatomy is different and heals differently.  I am speculative on this Dr. Brassard not being very happy about showing you pictures an how old are these pictures??  Right now i am not too happy with Dr. Meltzer's head nurse and not getting back with me at all.  It was all good before i had SRS with them.  They treated me well, their head nurse ( I am not mentioning names here), but i have been going through all his staff in having her get back with me, but im always getting someone else.  I also have some post op issues that i guess they do not seem to care enough, but to have some off site nurse call me every 3 wks to see how im doing.  Get where im going here??  Their aftercare..need i say more.  Thanks for the compliment btw, but i was kind of attractive as a male, so it was i guess not so hard to make me look even better and hormones helped me a great deal, not only with body, but with my face.  I workout like crazy, so it is not all the hormones help.  I found that if you want to truly look feminine, yes good genetics helps, but if you are not willing to eat properly, workout, cardio, hormones can only do so much.  If you have something specific you want to know you may pm me sure. Oh..I think there are plenty of Dr's/plastic surgeon's that do SRS right now that are doing it strictly for financial gain, lol!
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Birdie

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 13, 2010, 10:37:17 PM
I have heard alot of TG for instance say that they are getting 7-8" from Dr. Suporn and even getting orgasmic a few days aft surgery, and with very, very sensitive not only clitoral area, but out/inner vaginal areas.  I tend to doubt such quickness, but then when you hear more than one person saying the same things you tend to wonder, but you have to also consider age ranges of these patients and other variables.  It could be true, but i do not think it would be the "norm".

I have 7" from Dr Suporn. Our dilators have depth gauges so that we can see how close we are to our full depth, so I know for certain that it is true. I did lose a little depth over time, originally I was about 7 and a quarter. The clitoral area is very sensitive, yes. For me it was hypersensitive after surgery, and was actually very uncomfortable for the first week or two out of hospital, but it went away after that. There are pros and cons to all surgeons, but when people talk about Dr Suporns results with depth and sensation and call it the norm, they are definitely telling the truth (depth is why I chose him over others).

I've heard about the patients who have been orgasmic so soon after surgery. Dr Suporn makes it clear that patients should refrain from having any sexual thoughts until fully healed, otherwise the stitches can pop due to swelling etc. If they are orgasmic that quickly, it's actually not a good thing, and they should be thinking about baseball or something. :)
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umop ap!sdn

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 13, 2010, 10:37:17 PMI have heard alot of TG for instance say that they are getting 7-8" from Dr. Suporn and even getting orgasmic a few days aft surgery, and with very, very sensitive not only clitoral area, but out/inner vaginal areas.
My first measurement the day he removed the packing was 8" but since then I've gone down to 7" and holding steady. Orgasm on day 20 while dilating (yes that earned me a gentle slap on the wrist :angel: ) and still have clitoral hypersensitivity 40 days post-op, which makes merely walking an *interesting* experience. Yet another anecdote. :)

QuoteAlso, his technique kinda of alters depth to make it seem like you are gaining more depth when in fact you are not.
Oh how so? I'm just curious what it is that does this.
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Tammy Hope

Quoteand still have clitoral hypersensitivity 40 days post-op, which makes merely walking an *interesting* experience.

Ok.

you have my attention.

;)
Disclaimer: due to serious injury, most of my posts are made via Dragon Dictation which sometimes butchers grammar and mis-hears my words. I'm also too lazy to closely proof-read which means some of my comments will seem strange.


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Kristyn

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 13, 2010, 10:37:17 PM
Ok, i will elaborate alittle further.  For one, yes it is good to go on forums or any avenue to seek answers/questions, gain knowledge, but it is up to you to decide if these ppl making these awesome remarks are just ecstatic young ppl that are just elated from just having the SRS done or speaking in terms of what is good from very good work.  I have heard alot of TG for instance say that they are getting 7-8" from Dr. Suporn and even getting orgasmic a few days aft surgery, and with very, very sensitive not only clitoral area, but out/inner vaginal areas.  I tend to doubt such quickness, but then when you hear more than one person saying the same things you tend to wonder, but you have to also consider age ranges of these patients and other variables.  It could be true, but i do not think it would be the "norm".

I kind of wonder about that as well since I've heard of people who have had amazing sensitivity immediately after surgery with a drop off 6-8 months later.  Perhaps those early feelings are not so much orgasmic as something else due to nerve healing--perhaps just some sort of spasm or something.  I'm not a doctor so I can't really word it better than that.

Quote
Also, his technique kinda of alters depth to make it seem like you are gaining more depth when in fact you are not.  Also, within the healing process, one will almost always loose some depth due to the natural healing process.

I honestly can't comment since I don't really understand the colon procedure being used in Thailand.  I was somewhat unclear of the penile inversion technique until Brassard cleared it up nicely for me.

Quote
  I am just using an example here.  I can understand ppl not willing to show, as ppl may make neg comments or post them up for other ppl to see, so you would have to really know the person well imo.


It's too bad that many are reluctant to even post in an anonymous forum.  There is a Yahoo newsgroup called Trans Surgery where people post there results, but many are Suporn patients with only one Brassard patient.  It's also too bad that so many drop off the radar following surgery--posting in great detail pre and immediately post-operatively, but leaving us hanging by not posting about their progress as time goes on.  THis makes me wonder as well.


Quote
If you are confident with Brassard's work then go with your gut.  If you have done the necessary research, it still does not guarantee the outcome you might expect, as everyone's anatomy is different and heals differently.

Exactly.  This is a point I failed to make in my last reply.  Aesthetics and, to some extent, depth depends entirely on the amount of tissue the doctor has to work with, while the overall outcome depends on the patient, her health and how well she heals.

Quote
I am speculative on this Dr. Brassard not being very happy about showing you pictures an how old are these pictures??

I'm not saying he was not happy about showing me current results, I'm saying he did not have many.  The photos he showed were more or less the ones floating around the Web, give or take a couple.  While showing me these he did go into detail about specific images.  Thinking about this further, I can understand why.  Brassard doesn't have a follow-up program of any kind and any photos of healed results would have to be supplied by the patient.  I'm not sure of how many people are really going to send their results to him a year or so later.  It would be great if he were to ask patients to do just that so as to build up a decent portfolio.  As well, taking photos shortly after the stent is removed and before the patient leaves the residence would not make for a very appealing book.

Quote
  Right now i am not too happy with Dr. Meltzer's head nurse and not getting back with me at all.  It was all good before i had SRS with them.  They treated me well, their head nurse ( I am not mentioning names here), but i have been going through all his staff in having her get back with me, but im always getting someone else.  I also have some post op issues that i guess they do not seem to care enough, but to have some off site nurse call me every 3 wks to see how im doing.  Get where im going here??

I do.  A total lack of professionalism all too common today in various industries/professions.  Sorry to hear and I hope you get your issues resolved and heal well.


Quote
I workout like crazy, so it is not all the hormones help.  I found that if you want to truly look feminine, yes good genetics helps, but if you are not willing to eat properly, workout, cardio, hormones can only do so much.

I'm with you here as I work out 5x per week--3x strength/cardio and 2x cardio.  Eat well, but not too much--little to no red meats, but I do eat eggs and fish.  I also supplement with, not only vitamins/minerals, but protein and amino acids as well.  After twelve years or so living full time, hormones, etc., I've made the most gains this year alone.  I've dropped from a size 12-14 to a size 6-8.  I can't tout the benefits of fitness and nutrition more!  I just hope I don't gain too much back after surgery.
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Meshi

The above comments are exactly why i now wish i had not worried so much about going to Thailand and using Dr. Suporn over Dr. Meltzer.  I have heard this from many TG about the depth and sensitivity.  With Meltzer it is nowhere near hyper for me, not even merely sensitive.  Depth is around 6" at best and that is using alot of pressure and i am having problems with irritation as well.  I have also heard from a couple post op of Meltzer's that this is not an uncommon issue.  Problem was that i didnt hear alot of feed back on Meltzer at the time and anything i heard was that if you have the $ go with him.  Now i might possibly know for sure that its not all about the $, but the post op result, issues after and after care. I feel now quite bummed that i didnt choose Dr. Suporn.  I have even brought up the instances about Suporn with Meltzer and he makes very technical remarks about how his techniques allow for more depth, but that it is some kind of an illusion because of how he places..i dont know different areas.  I couldnt quit grasp.  I talked to him about Suporn patents having orgasms so early and he said it is based on individuals being different and such, but i think its a bunch of bunk, being i am hearing this from alot of TG not just a couple.  I wish i could do it over again, but i cant.  Big thing is that Suporn is about half the price of Meltzer and i do not hear many of having to do labia revisions.,  Ive already had one revision and im still not satisfied with the Mons area and this is not a "me" being really particular one either.  I hope my email friend reads this and realizes sometime going out of the country is necessary if you want to achieve something that actually functions and works like the genetic counterpart.  I wish only that some post op Meltzer patients would speak up here and so others know something, as at least i am tell alittle indept about my experiences with him.,
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Kristyn

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on April 14, 2010, 10:23:54 AM
I have heard this from many TG about the depth and sensitivity.  With Meltzer it is nowhere near hyper for me, not even merely sensitive.

You didn't mention how far post-op you are.  Do you have any feeling at all, or is it just numbness.  Perhaps given time and maybe working the area may help.  I've read about particular amino acids and anti-oxidants which aid in the regeneration of nerves.


Quote
Depth is around 6" at best and that is using alot of pressure and i am having problems with irritation as well.

6inches is relatively common and considered quite good with penile inversion.  Could the irritation be caused by dryness perhaps?

Quote
Problem was that i didnt hear alot of feed back on Meltzer at the time and anything i heard was that if you have the $ go with him.

You're right.  There is almost nothing out there about him.  I've only heard of a couple people going to him for aesthetic revisions.  My reason for him being a second choice was pretty much the same as yours.

Quote
I have even brought up the instances about Suporn with Meltzer and he makes very technical remarks about how his techniques allow for more depth, but that it is some kind of an illusion because of how he places..i dont know different areas.

He makes no sense with that remark.  If the dilator is inside and measuring at the 7 or 8 inch mark, how can that be an illusion?  Sounds like a buch of BS to me.

Quote
I couldnt quit grasp.  I talked to him about Suporn patents having orgasms so early and he said it is based on individuals being different and such, but i think its a bunch of bunk, being i am hearing this from alot of TG not just a couple.

I'm hearing a lot of good from Thailand and a lot of good from Montreal.  That being said, we are probably only hearing from about 1-2%.  What about the others?  For example, SarahR posted a remarkable account of her Montreal experience, but in between the time she arrived and left, Brassard must have done about six other surgeries that we have not heard about.  How are those results?  We will never know.

In regards to sensitivity, orgasms, etc.  I don't understand how it could be so much the doctors technique.  If the nerves are being preserved, wouldn't it be more an issue of healing?

Quote
I wish i could do it over again, but i cant.  Big thing is that Suporn is about half the price of Meltzer and i do not hear many of having to do labia revisions.,  Ive already had one revision and im still not satisfied with the Mons area and this is not a "me" being really particular one either.  I hope my email friend reads this and realizes sometime going out of the country is necessary if you want to achieve something that actually functions and works like the genetic counterpart.  I wish only that some post op Meltzer patients would speak up here and so others know something, as at least i am tell alittle indept about my experiences with him.,

I'm truly sorry for the position you are in, but I thank you for posting your account.  I too wish that things can be better for you and maybe they will in time.
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Flan

Quote from: Kristyn on April 14, 2010, 01:03:31 PM
He makes no sense with that remark.  If the dilator is inside and measuring at the 7 or 8 inch mark, how can that be an illusion?  Sounds like a buch of BS to me.

might be the so called "Chonburi organ", which is really the neurovascular bundle otherwise leading to the glans penis, folded between the clitoris and the urethral opening, obstructing the top side of the stent making the illusion of depth (since it isn't measured correctly).
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Shryke

   Hey there Flan. I'm a 40+ or so day post op Suporn patient and I wanted to make a comment about the depth thing you have mentioned. Yes, you are right about the Chonburi organ in its placement. However, it contributing to a false concept of depth is wrong. Our dilators have very accurate markings (cm/in). All surgeons use the same way of measuring depth- by measuring from the labia majora.

   Immediately after surgery, I had 7.2 inches of depth measured from my rather swollen labia majora, however to combat the somewhat uneven rate in which the swelling went down, I began to measure at the point in which it "disappears" into my body, visible by using a mirror. The point is, both methods are irrespective of the "Chonburi Organ" as we don't measure from the top and all of us are given a mirror ;).

   Depending on how serious you take dilation, you can gain some depth in the first 3 months post op with Dr. Suporn (or lose it!). Month 2 and 3 are when scar contraction begins and ends and I'm on the second month now, my depth using my method of measuring about 7.5 inches.

 

Post Merge: April 14, 2010, 07:59:12 PM

   As for sensitivity, whoa. The first weeks out of the hospital I couldn't go anywhere near touching even my clit because my whole body would jolt, but while in Chonburi you have to apply a white cream between the lips and on the the clit under the hood and that woke me up more than a shot of espresso so I ended up having to do a lot of jolting!

  Even now it's so sensitive that sometimes walking can be stimulating. I can bring myself near orgasm just by opening and closing my legs. The hypersensitivity will eventually fade into a state of more realistic sensitivity but Suporn surely knows how to make a sensitive vagina, even the lips have sensation. Still getting used to it and I'm really happy about that.

Cosmetically I'm very pleased as well (so is my partner). Like Michelle, I was nervous to go to Thailand too. Her and I even talked together about that over coffee before I left! But I'm very glad I did. Michelle, don't regret your surgical choice so much. I'm sure by the time I am  your age, there will be some option for srs that is far superior to what I have so it is best to think of the mentality of "what's done is done" and to learn to love what you have, even if you tweak it a little! I'm sure sensitivity will return, and one of the reasons I canceled my surgery with Meltzer was a few stories of wonky aftercare that made my feet cold. I'm sure what you have is adequate!
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gentle_patience

It is really nice to see the honesty and openness in most of these postings. Sadly, that is a bit of a rarity. Most girls seem to want to direct people to the surgeon they used simply to reinforce that their decision was correct. One girl wrote the following explanaition which kind of sums up that tendency of many people. I also wonder what happens with the silent majority of Tans women that do not post at all or perhaps they just moved on with their lives. It would be nice to see some of them come back to post on occasion.Here are the thoughts I mentioned quoted below

"My most important thought about asking people about their experiences is that in virtually every case, everyone is happy with their choice of surgeon and everyone is happy with their result.  Further, everyone wants to believe they made the best choice and want to see that choice validated by having others make the same choice.  As a consequence, you really can't trust anyone's account of their own experience and satisfaction with their own surgeon and surgery (and that includes me).

Is there a difference between these surgeons?  I'm sure there is.  They use different techniques and they are bound to produce different results.  Does it matter which one you go to?  That depends on how you view the question.  Whatever surgeon you go to, you are in all likelihood going to be happy with the result.  However, that is much more a function of human psychology than it is a question of the result.  This is a major decision.  It's a permanent change to your body.  No one likes to think they made a wrong decision.  So people convince themselves they made the right choice.  They ignore any evidence that there may have been better choices.  They go on to become vocal advocates of the choice they made to continue convincing themselves they made the right choice.  I have never met anyone who says they really wish they had gone to a different surgeon.

Paraphrased * Many people feel that their choice of surgeon must be validated, and they want others to make the same choice to validate her choice.  As such, you really can't place faith in anything they say. Some people are so over-the-top about it that they destroy their own credibility, they injects a bunch of misleading and unreliable information into the discourse, and they cause people to think that they can't trust any negative information about a particular doctor.  They are not doing anyone any favors, either the Dr. or the trans community.*

I've seen people do this time and time again.  I've seen all kinds of fights over one Dr VS another, and American doctors vs. Thai doctors.  Everyone just digs in and supports their choice and discredits everyone else's.  I've seen enough of this that I know you can't trust people's own opinion of their own surgeries.  I try to keep this in mind and be as honest as I can, being open about both the good and the bad.  We need a lot more of that.  However, even I have a bias.  I'm a human being.  I too want to think I made a good choice.  I don't want to think I screwed up my body where a different choice would have been better.  I have other biases too.

So, we have to take people's own accounts with a grain of salt.  There are differences between these surgeons, but you are not going to find them by asking their patients.  The reality is that SRS has gotten fairly sophisticated, but it's still in its adolescence.  There isn't a profession wide, medically accepted standard for how this surgery should be done.  It's not a tonsillectomy.  It is just a little past it's experimental phase, and now in a period where different doctors take their own different approaches to how it is done.  Some surgeons are starting to borrow from each other, and there are some cases where you can get the same basic approach to surgery from different surgeons.  However, for the most part, choosing a surgeon means choosing a philosophical approach to the surgery.

So, in looking at surgeons, I would say the best thing to consider is 1) their approach to the surgery and 2) their level of experience with it.  Level of experience is important for two reasons: A) it's a reflection of their level of surgical experience in general and their ability to deal with and avoid complications and B) these surgeries are still at least in part experimental, and you want someone who has conducted a lot of experiments (patients) to have been able to hone in their technique.  After that you can start considering things like price, location, or even complaint history.  Lastly, consider the person doing the surgery.  You have to feel that you can trust them, both in their competency and their character.

Try to find out in detail exactly how each of these surgeons approach their surgeries and what is different about them.  Explore the pros and cons of each of the differences.  Decide for yourself which differences are important to you and which ones are trivial.  When you get down to a short list based on that, inquire about the number of surgeries they have performed.  Then start making inquiries about individual's experiences with them, and take what they say with a grain of salt.

The reason there are so many approaches to the surgery is that none of them are perfect.  They all have trade-offs, they all have virtues, they all have shortcomings, and they all have disappointments.  If there were one perfect approach, everyone would do it.  No matter who you go to, there's going to be something about it that isn't exactly what you find on a natal woman.  Now, after the surgery you may convince yourself that you made the perfect choice and the results are perfect like most people do, making those deficiencies unnoticeable.  That also means, based on the experience of others, that the only time when you will be able to view this subject with a rational mind is before surgery.  After the surgery, you can't trust your own opinion.  Viewed the other way, what difference does it make who you go to?  Based on the experience of others, you're going to be completely happy with the result no matter what they are.  That's the paradox of SRS.  We all sweat bullets over getting the best surgery before hand, and are happy with whatever we get afterward.  The question then is, do you stop sweating bullets before hand because the result doesn't matter, do you sweat more bullets before hand because you can't trust your reaction afterward, or do you refuse to delude yourself afterward and try to be honest with yourself all the way through?  That last one is the hardest."

What a bright girl IMO. While you may not agree with everything on this post, I really believe that it is a good and healthily thing to read it.  Hopefully you feel the same way, If not, apologies.

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Meshi

^I assure you my results and issues have nothing to do with psychology and I would never make a comment  just to validate a dr just because i used him.  He/ She is either good  or not doing something right.  I know alot of TG's seem to have to validate but im not like that and you know that huh?  Dr Meltzer is a very good surgeon, but i have not heard a word from anyone yet saying 7-8" or such sensitivity.  My sensation i will describe as waking up in the middle of the night with a male hard on but on my clitoris.  Is that  common??  Ive heard of tingling, but ive not had this once. I know you are untrusting, and i dont blame you, but i am speaking from recent experience that is ongoing and you know that.  Look at all the ppl that are saying positive things about Dr.  Suporn.  Do you hear anything about Dr. Meltzer other than he costs twice as much.  Sure i am bia now..Why, because they dont know how to get back with a former patient when they are having problems and when their head nurse make you feel like a queen b4 SRS,but  later wont reply to you. Ive spent over 100k with this Dr.   You tell me why i should give a good  referral on someone that not only has an office staff like that, but he too will not  get back with you on a potential procedure that you asked for a price on when you went on your pre op  for and you dont even have the answer b4 you leave.  If you do decide to use him and have followup issues or want revisions, you  will  find out exactly  what im talking  about.   Oh..I am 6 months post op from vaginoplasty.
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gentle_patience

Like I said: "It is really nice to see the honesty and openness in most of these postings".
It is really great that you are sharing your experiances - both good and not so good. Thank you for that - It REALLY helps those of us that are struggling to find our way...   

Post Merge: April 14, 2010, 10:50:09 PM

BTW, How do you join this group and not just be a visitor ?  ???
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