Behaviour

[Lesley_Roberta]

I am VERY down on myself for looks, but behaviour is an entirely different  realm.

I find myself wondering, more and more and more, is my behaviour female?

I look back on my life, and I can't really see a time I acted different, but, the more I look, the closer I look, the more I wonder, have I ever been a guy in behaviour?

Heck now I have trouble wondering if the only thing I have to do for transitioning, is lose the sex organ (and some other annoying physical traits).

I've been wondering if I could ever know what it was like to be a woman, and currently, I find myself thinking, could it be I have always thought like one in the first place? How do you know?

I mean, ok so I have not had to deal with menstruating, wait, ok I KNOW it is more than just the bleeding, but let me say, if you have dealt with long term troubles from hemorrhoids you know about bleeding and being uncomfortable and wardrobe hassles.

There's a wide range of cliche classic atypical female experiences I have not missed out on.

What's interesting, is there is a wide range of cliche classic atypical male experiences I have never experienced.
First car, nope.
Making the team, nope.
Getting drunk with the guys watching the game, nope.
Car maintenance, nope.
Gangs, nope.
Weight lifting and or working out, or any form of muscle based obsessions, nope.
Hunting, and or devotion to anything to do with killing things, nope (aside from being in the army, and that was sadly a brief moment in time too).

I'm able to claim extensive familiarity with tools I suppose.
I like to make things. Only one thing I can't make and that is because I lack those parts.

Hindsight being the wonderful thing that it is, I can look back and see a lot of things rather clearly.
But like as is often the case, you can't see something for what it is, when you have had no reason to wonder about it being the way it is, if you had no reason to suspect it was other than what you thought it was.
50 years of life, thinking I was acting and behaving in one fashion, and never really knowing all of my behaviour was really not what I thought.

I suppose for some of us, transitioning means a lot of things.
I need to work on the cosmetic appearance, but, I have been a woman all my life the closer I look at it.
I can't 'sit' like a lady, but that is anatomically not possible. I tried to cross my legs yesterday, and ended up hurting my knees, and making my hips sore. My upper leg mass is not conducive to that posture and they are not long enough additionally.
But I at least realize the reason for sitting properly.

I don't need any work between the ears, I merely need to renovate the accommodations.

[spacial]

Lesley.

I get the feeling you're over thinking.

Firstly, those experiences of gmales and gfemales are stereotypes. It isn't about menstruating and more than being a human is opening your bowels once a day. It happens. Usually. But life is a bit more than that, thank goodness!

To transition, you must first do so, in yourself. You need to know who and what you are.

I just think you've gotten yourself into a panic cycle and are not going anywhere.

Relax. Take a break. Stop trying to be someone and learn to be you.

[Lesley_Roberta]

I was raised in a VERY stereotypical home

Over think though is so utterly me.

It's not easy to not think when you spend so much time cooped up by yourself though.

And the more I go out, the more run down I get.

Sure is a damned trap.

It's 11 in the morning, I SHOULD be out shopping, but the household finances have been beaten up by me a good bit this month. Can't even find the needed hot chocolate funds today

[spacial]

Understand.

I can give a tip to you or anyone, try to see spending as an addiction that needs to be controlled. Get your priorities right and the rest can wait.

But you are right, and you do need some more outlets and that is something you need to sort out.

I spend almost all of my time on the web these days. I'm housebound and have limited finances.  You will need to find whatever fills you, but that's mine. Certainly beats TV.

But let me say this, I for one, enjoy reading your posts. I responded this time because I thought you might be hurting. Please don't get the impression I was suggesting you should change. 

[Nero]

I agree with spacial that you are way overanalyzing this.
I don't know what typical 'girl' experiences you've experienced, but only a few of these 'male experiences' are even close to being universal.

What's interesting, is there is a wide range of cliche classic atypical male experiences I have never experienced.

First car, nope. Not a guy thing at all. In fact, in my high school, it was usually the girls who got cars first.

Making the team, nope. I suppose more guys than girls play on sports teams, however, look at how many spots there usually are on teams - the majority of guys do not get one.

Getting drunk with the guys watching the game, nope. Pretty normal, however there are plenty of 'geek' guys who don't go through this 'rite of passage'

Car maintenance, nope. Again a pretty common 'rite', but again common in some male circles but not in others. Plenty of guys know nothing about cars.

Gangs, nope. Depends on where you live if this is common or not. I bet the actual percentage of guys who join gangs is less than 99%. Depends heavily on socioeconomic status, culture, etc. But suffice it to say, the majority of guys haven't worn 'colors'.

Weight lifting and or working out, or any form of muscle based obsessions, nope. Again pretty common 'rite' but nowhere near universal.

Hunting, and or devotion to anything to do with killing things, nope (aside from being in the army, and that was sadly a brief moment in time too). Same as above. Also depends heavily on where you live, plenty of city dwellers have never done this.

Anyway, looking to your childhood behavior for answers is normal for trans people but you won't find justification or validation doing it. There are far more guys who haven't done these things who aren't TS. A guy you just described could just as easily have been a more 'studious sort' than female. Just like there are far more tomboys who ended up housewives than ftm.

A much better indication of transness is your feelings, your sense of identity.

[Beth Andrea]

I was never "one of the guys". I hung around guys, and we did "guy" things (cars, shooting, etc)...but I, inside me, was always thinking, "WTF am I doing here? I sure hope they don't ask if I'm a guy...I mean, I am one (aren't I?) but I don't feel like I fit in here..."

I learned all the phrases, all the stances and posturing, I could "be a man!", yet I never accepted myself without question...and apparently, neither did anyone else. I was always the one left out of fun times (they always said, "Oh, we forgot to call you")...

I wasn't much better with the women either, but at least with them I never had any thoughts of "Am I passing?" I was comfortable with them, unless I started thinking about sex...then I was embarrassed because I had 'those parts" and I knew that they knew I had "those parts"...

Regarding stereotypical "guy" behavior, let's not cut down the OP, shall we? There are nearly universal sense of "normal" that the general population has about "guy behavior" and "girl behavior", even if many people don't actually do that.

Guys LOVE their first car. (I can even remember the license plate number of mine).

Guys want to "make the team", even if they don't actually want to...they know it's bragging rights.

Getting drunk and carousing? Yes, both genders do this...guys are looked up to by many guys for doing this. (And they are looked down upon by other guys).

Car maintenance? More guys (imho) know a little about car maintenance, more so than the average woman.

etc etc. Whether or not you agree such stereotypes should be, they are out there. And for the sake of this conversation, let's work with it.

[Devlyn]

"Guys LOVE their first car. (I can even remember the license plate number of mine)"

Me, too, 880 ELC, and that was 1979!

[Sarah Louise]

All I remember about mine is that it was a Buick (I think) I got it used in 1962.  The body was indestructible too bad the transmission wasn't.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Well comically, if I ever needed car advice, I'm asking my sister not my brother. He thinks with his wallet she thinks with her head.

I grew up the middle child, brother was the super jock multiple girl friends older brother that everyone expected me to copy.

My sister was not on the cheer leading squad, but hell they'd have been grateful to have her.

Dad was Ward Cleaver, mom was June. Let me tell you, I grew up surrounded by cliches that were most assuredly real

My school friends all got cars. One chap, he was always on about someone hit his car and so he had to beat him up. I figured he had to have beaten up half the town.

But I had no need to cruise, I wasn't driven to pick up girls and be seen as 'manly'. I spent my teens in a library. It's why I am a walking encyclopedia, but I have so little in the way of 'street smarts'. I missed out on the male AND female developmental experiences of youth.

My early 20s was spenting drinking with a gal buddy. We danced, and hung out, I had no troubles dancing with her and numerous unattended girls on the dance floor as is often the case as so many guys suck at dancing or they are shy about asking a girl to dance or both I suppose. Shy? I have no idea what it feels like. I wanted to dance, and if it meant dancing with all the girls on the dance floor well, I suppose I know what a lot of gay males know I actually find a lot of that sort of humour funny. Be wary of a girl's gay friends I fit in easily with girl based activities.

Super Bowl party? Nah, too much grunting. Tupperware party, now that's my sort of fun.

It's not that girls don't know car maintenance, but it's rough on your hands, hard on the nails, and it's messy gets in your hair and leaves smells of grease. It's at least not hard to wash off saw dust.

As for fitness, well I must admit, it is fun listening to my sister laugh about running her cop and fire fighter buddies into the ground on a squash court She's 50 and looks better than most do at 25.

I have a secret wish, to some day show up in a decent wig, nice make up, and wearing something attractive and laughing with my sister that at least now she won't hate being told she looks like me

Last comment, I DO spend aggressively, but, the household concerns trump fun stuff. I have plenty of money in the house, but, it is spoken for. Food money is not accessible for non food needs, and I divide my pension at day one, and each week gets funds reserved for it. I am fairly methodical. When I say I am broke, it is only Lesley's allowance that is gone

[Beth Andrea]

"Guys LOVE their first car. (I can even remember the license plate number of mine)"

Me, too, 880 ELC, and that was 1979!

1972 dodge polara, ex-fire chief car (with spotlights!), plates SLY 185.

Sold it to a rent-a-dent place, the guy there said it'd make a great demolition derby car...:-(

MY BABY!!! (if you can call a car that's 23' long and 7' wide a "baby"...)

[Lesley_Roberta]

I just PROVED I was a girl online.

No real man would have been as nice to this flirt on Facebook.

But, it hasn't improved my attitudes towards men.

For those of us that are FTM, remember, the last stage of the transition requires a lobotomy, you were born too smart to pass as most cis males

How hard can it be for men to figure out they are talking to the wrong person?

[Nero]

I was never "one of the guys". I hung around guys, and we did "guy" things (cars, shooting, etc)...but I, inside me, was always thinking, "WTF am I doing here? I sure hope they don't ask if I'm a guy...I mean, I am one (aren't I?) but I don't feel like I fit in here..."

I learned all the phrases, all the stances and posturing, I could "be a man!", yet I never accepted myself without question...and apparently, neither did anyone else. I was always the one left out of fun times (they always said, "Oh, we forgot to call you")...

I wasn't much better with the women either, but at least with them I never had any thoughts of "Am I passing?" I was comfortable with them, unless I started thinking about sex...then I was embarrassed because I had 'those parts" and I knew that they knew I had "those parts"...

Regarding stereotypical "guy" behavior, let's not cut down the OP, shall we? There are nearly universal sense of "normal" that the general population has about "guy behavior" and "girl behavior", even if many people don't actually do that.

Guys LOVE their first car. (I can even remember the license plate number of mine).

Guys want to "make the team", even if they don't actually want to...they know it's bragging rights.

Getting drunk and carousing? Yes, both genders do this...guys are looked up to by many guys for doing this. (And they are looked down upon by other guys).

Car maintenance? More guys (imho) know a little about car maintenance, more so than the average woman.

etc etc. Whether or not you agree such stereotypes should be, they are out there. And for the sake of this conversation, let's work with it.

I wasn't 'cutting down anyone'. Anyone can look at stereotypical behavior of a gender to convince themselves they never fit it. Joe Macho on the street could say 'well, I was in the army, am good with tools, etc, but I never made the team or joined a gang, so my behavior isn't that male'. It'd be like me saying, 'well I was never a cheerleader and don't shop much so I never had typical female experiences.' This kind of thinking is a dead end.

[Beth Andrea]

No, because if a person does any of the aforementioned tasks, that's worth one "Man Card." If one does something that is forbidden (i.e., wearing a dress and makeup, or doing anything "homo"), one must surrender their Man Card to any available man, and forever be ridiculed.

To make up for a simple, one-time transgression, one must do something heroic and lovable, anything that makes a woman go, "awww....". Like rescuing a kitten from a burning building, smiling when the mother-in-law arrives, but not when she leaves...or change their child's diaper when it has poo in it.

Apologies for the "cutting down" remark. That was not needed.

[Nero]

No, because if a person does any of the aforementioned tasks, that's worth one "Man Card." If one does something that is forbidden (i.e., wearing a dress and makeup, or doing anything "homo"), one must surrender their Man Card to any available man, and forever be ridiculed.

To make up for a simple, one-time transgression, one must do something heroic and lovable, anything that makes a woman go, "awww....". Like rescuing a kitten from a burning building, smiling when the mother-in-law arrives, but not when she leaves...or change their child's diaper when it has poo in it.

Apologies for the "cutting down" remark. That was not needed.

LOL I suppose you're right on that. 

[Lesley_Roberta]

Man cards. I sure hate that whole notion

My friends kept telling me to surrender my man card, till I think maybe after me beating it into their heads, I don't have a man card to give you.

Stereotypes are like cliches, they ARE real, the thing is, they are not real FAIR.

But to say they are not there is silly. Of course they are there. But like inequality, they shouldn't be enforceable.

Guys DO act like guys. The ones that don't are often not guys. But you can hardly expect everyone to wear labels so that you don't get the members incorrect

Remember, just because you don't have a complete set of stereotypes doesn't mean you are off the hook