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mental health issues

Started by spacerace, March 31, 2013, 05:39:26 PM

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spacerace

It seems like lately in several different threads there been a lot of discounting of the serious nature of mental health issues.

For example, there have been multiple posts that say people should just get over problems, or that the depression caused by extreme dysphoria is not really crippling and potentially life-threatening.

I for one don't have dysphoria in an intense debilitating way, but I do struggle with mental health issues that have caused both major depression and psychosis. I couldn't just think my way out of these problems, especially the latter. Implying people should be able to just get over things discounts the very real nature of mental illness. It can prevent people from working, and it can lead to frequent hospitalization.

Depression, mania, and anxiety can cause people to lose touch with reality in serious ways.  It is like the software of your brain malfunctions. This is not something many people can correct without medication and therapy. For many people, transitioning is also a necessary part of the solution, not something that needs to come after problems are fixed.

I know most people have never experienced serious mental illness, and many trans people do not have dsyphoria so bad it can seem like suicide is the only option. 

But can we all maybe just reach outside of ourselves and stop assuming our experiences are the same as everyone else? Please?  When you are someone like me and you read something like some of the recent posts, it feels exactly the same as someone refusing to call you by your actual name, or someone who uses the wrong pronouns just to get to you. I think these last two things are something we can all relate to, so hopefully there may be some understanding of the impact someone denying the realness of mental illness has on people who have to fight it every day.
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AdamMLP

Thank you for this.  Seriously.

I have been through some pretty damn rough times in my life, and struggled with depression and suicide for at least 4 years, probably longer, but my memories shot and I know 2008 was the time I first admitted it to anyone.  Being trans in itself didn't cause that for me, or maybe it did, I certainly got better since fully coming to terms with it myself.  Day-to-day I don't have crippling dysphoria, but when that nasty week comes I end up a mess and suicidal thoughts like to come and say hello.  Just today I was crying my eyes out on the stairs because I couldn't face feeling what was going on down there to make it to my room.

I would not be here without being hospitalised for a night, and I know someone who would not be here, or have a roof over their head without their medication and spending nearly a month in a mental health facility.  Depression is not something which can just be gotten over.  You cannot just pull yourself together.  Believe me, I tried every trick in the book to drag myself back on track, and it didn't work one bit.  I believe half the problem is that people (just to be clear I mean general society, not any specific people) are all too happy to self diagnose with depression when they have a bad day or two, and those people who are just having a poo-y day are able to pull themselves together and get on with it.  When those people start saying that they were depressed and talking about their experiences like they were genuinely ill then mental illness gets that bad rep.
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mangoslayer

Thank you for this. You just said a lot of things I wasn't quite able to articulate. Mental health does not seem to be taken seriously and considered something you just "get over".
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Jack_M

I completely agree.  It can affect people in the opposite way too.  For example, I get angry when someone assumes one has to be suicidal about being born with the wrong parts in order to be a true TS.  For me, it doesn't make me suicidal but that's just how I personally deal with my own personal issues, emphasis on the PERSONAL.  I don't feel that being born a woman makes me want to kill myself but I'm far from liking it, and it deeply depresses me, it just manifests in other ways than having suicidal thoughts.  Just because the way I personally deal with it doesn't equate to suicide doesn't make me less of a TS!

At the same time I don't judge people who are suicidal over, or say idiotic things like "get over it!" I'd only point them in the direction of people that may be able to help because I'm not qualified but I can at least try to point them them in the right direction to try and get them some help instead of just make the situation worse by only adding to their pain!

There's no correct way to react to anything; only your way!  Everyone handles situations differently and the last thing one likes to hear is "I know how you feel."  This phrase sickens me because it's so fake!  No one knows the internal pain someone faces and the way one reacts shouldn't make one person's pain greater than another because we don't know what's really happening inside their brain.  And just because two people are TS doesn't mean they know jack about the other person.  I prefer phrases that better equate to this idea, like, "I empathise" or "I can understand why you're upset", but never, ever saying "I know", or worse, like you point out, "get over it!"
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Simon

I understand both sides because I have physical and mental illnesses. No, people shouldn't say "get over it" and I can't recall seeing anyone say anything of that nature (please, bring it to a mod's attention in a pm if they do).

Sometimes I think there is a lot of over sensitivity on here. People should be free to express their opinions and have debates without it getting personal or people getting upset.

I know there are times people get offended by what I say but it's not intentional on my part. I have strong opinions about some things and also the right to express them in a respectful or even inquisitive manner.

It would be really boring if everyone around here walked on eggshells for the fear that someone may take offense.

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Natkat

I belive everyone has there own view on things, we really can't walk into each others shoes and the help is still limited from what you can understand of a text from the net to decribe someones situation.
I bet we make mistakes somethimes cause we don't always understand what it means for people so we try to look at ourself to see what worked for us, and if we where able or knew someone who where able to "get over it" this might be the advice who is been giving, even when we can't complely relate cause we never know if this is the same situation.

for a few days ago I was talking to a girl about children, and said I had a hard time to connect with them and get this natural bonding like simple playing a game, she kept saying how easy it was, it surely where for her but thats really not how it is for me, the same thing goes on Susan when someone makes threads. we can use or own experience to give advice for what have worked for us and could work for others, but theres no garenti this is to be the true answer.

the only time I feel annoyed is if people keep using whatever they have as an excuse for themself.
like people who say. "I have an depression, so its okay I talk s**t to others, or no you cant expect me to bla bla bla cause I have __, but I can expect you to bla bla"
those situations really makes me mad for 2 reasons, 1 is that having difficuletys isnt a ticket to disrespect of others,
another is that I think some people put themself down belive they can do less than they actually can do. like a program I once saw there where this girl with down syndrome who where really all fine and had a job and so on, but her mother got alot of critizism from the handicap comunety who keept saying, that she "couldnt do this or that cause she had down syndrome, when the girl where a living proff that she could do it.
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Beth Andrea

In my life, much needed protection from parents, law enforcement, etc failed to materialize because they told me to "just get over it."

So when someone tells me that, or even suggests it, it brings back all the hurt, the rapes, the shunning, the silence...and finally the abandoning. So yeah, it is personal to me.

I'm sorry if my past makes me "over sensitive", but other than simply not coming here...I don't know what to do about it.

Sorry.
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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Liminal Stranger

Like the other guys have said, thank you for this. I've noticed that mental disease and depression are being minimized in their severity and importance compared to other types of illness, and it makes me sad seeing that here. I know that the brain is a powerful organ, but the mind is one we cannot quite touch- however, the tangibility (or lack thereof) of illness does not change its nature from deadly to harmless. It takes a significant amount of pain to push your average person over the edge, because we as human beings really do want to live deep down inside. Depression and other disorders that can cause that amount of pain are not to be taken lightly. You don't "get over it", as some have stated before. A boy in my middle school failed a math test, and you know what? For him, that was a finishing blow to his sense of self. He threw himself down the stairs that night, broke his neck and that was it. What killed him? A neck fracture, directly, but so did everything else that had pushed him to it, the math test being that one last thing. Yes, to outsiders that might seem silly. But on the inside, once you are there and understand, you can know. Unless you have watched a person go through it, or found yourself caught in that downward spiral, it's just that much harder to do it.

Transsexualism can kill. It doesn't shoot a person, but can be that one last thing that puts the gun to their head and makes them pull the trigger, because they feel there's nothing to live for. Disorders of the mind can worsen that, make a person more fragile. Some go through ->-bleeped-<- and transsexualism without many hiccups- perhaps they're strong in mind and heart, or have found an outlet or a coping mechanism. Maybe their family is progressive, or loves them enough to change their minds. Maybe they haven't faced ridicule or therapist upon therapist mistreating them and neglecting their needs. Maybe they were lucky enough to have the funds to start HRT quickly, had goals in sight the whole way. Maybe some disease of mind or body didn't put even more hoops into the routine for them to jump through.
Some don't. If this world were a better place, one willing to understand the hell we go through and that some people never wanted to fight this war, maybe the suicide rate wouldn't quadruple in the LGBT community. Maybe we'd see more transfolk out there, leading productive and successful lives. Maybe that would inspire others who see no way out to hang in there until some light appeared at the end of the tunnel. But it has to start somewhere- if our own community cannot as a whole recognize and acknowledge the harmful nature of being TG/TS on a person's mind, the fact that it can be an indirect killer and that suicide isn't taking an easy way out, then how can we ever expect society as a whole to acknowledge and accept our condition as something real, something that should be treated for those who require treatment, something that should be accepted for those who just want to start living instead of only being alive?

I've lived when no one thought I would, walked and talked against a lot of odds. I've slipped up here and there, almost lost my life to things like anaphylactic shock a few times. I've gotten hurt plenty more- and yet some doctors actually have the nerve to negate any injuries I've sustained and any handicap I have when it's right there in their face. That's a bit like what's going on here, in my honest opinion. No offense to anyone who has faced something like cancer and feels their battle was a much tougher one, but everyone's tolerance threshold is different and anything pushing them over it is a threat to their life, whether physical, mental, or otherwise.




"And if you feel that you can't go on, in the light you will find the road"
- In the Light, Led Zeppelin
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DriftingCrow

If you're talking about a recent post I wrote, I said that's how I deal with things (I even made "I" in bold so people wouldn't think I was saying that's how everyone should be). I try to catch myself early and work through things before it gets bad enough where I'd need some sort of professional help, of course I know not everyone can catch things early, and I am sure I have some issues now that I haven't caught and I am not even aware of. 

I am aware that some people can't just think things through if things get so deep. I've had multiple family members either kill themselves or had to be put into the mental hospital for being suicidal.

I shouldn't though have to walk on eggshells and never say "I just force myself to get over things" etc. just because some people may just think that I am saying they're weaklings and that I am discrediting anyone else's problems. That's just how I personally deal with my problems, and I am not saying it's wrong to not be like me.
ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤੈ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤੁ
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Liminal Stranger

Just as another note, I've seen people use it as a ticket to get out of blame for anything. I've seen anxiety used that way. Hell, my father tries to blame his behavior on this supposedly horrible childhood he had, all while he made mine around 1000 times worse in the eyes of everyone but himself. But I've also seen people who don't want to be that way, who want to live and want to be happy but life pushes them down too many times. If you were trying to run and something kept kicking you down, I'm pretty sure that some scrapes and bruises later, it would seem easier to lie down and give up, and the goal you were trying to get to wouldn't seem worth it. No one is being asked to walk on eggshells, you know, but a bit more thought on making posts less abrasive would be good. Perhaps a debate section should be set up, so people can express strong opinions on a subject without subsequently hurting the feelings of others without even meaning to. Dunno, that's just my idea for a way to make both sides happy.




"And if you feel that you can't go on, in the light you will find the road"
- In the Light, Led Zeppelin
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Contravene

It's really surprising and extremely disappointing to find that there are so many people in this community who aren't understanding when it comes to mental health.

When I was younger, I struggled with serious depression and a few other mental problems. I saw a psychiatrist who thought he would be able to fix my problems with medication alone but that's not how it worked out. Constantly experimenting with new medications on me and changing my doses left me with even more mental problems plus physical ones so I eventually had to be weaned off of all medication and forced to just "get over it" myself. I didn't have a choice. It was either get over it or allow my problems to cripple me for the rest of my life.

As someone who has been there, I can tell you that "getting over" my mental problems was just as bad if not worse than all of the physical battles I've been through for my health and I'm still fighting. I'm fortunate enough that I'm able to keep fighting too. There are many people who aren't able to just "get over it" and end up losing their battles with mental illness. Unlike many of the posts I've read recently, I don't discount this fact either. I'm not one of those people who pretends I'm stronger and better than everyone else because I overcame my mental illness. Instead, I realize that I'm one of the fortunate ones who had the help and support I needed. Anytime I hear of someone committing suicide, I realize that that could have been me.

The brain is an organ like any other. If the brain fails in any way it causes just as much damage as any other failed organ. Telling someone to "get over" a mental problem is as ignorant as telling someone with heart failure to just "get over it".
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Arch

No, see, I just have to recognize that things shouldn't get me down. I have to make up my mind to be happy. I need to just stop being depressed! If it doesn't work, then I clearly don't want to be happy.

News flash for the people who have told me such things: I can get depressed even when nothing in particular is bothering me. I've "made up my mind" to be happy on many occasions, and it did not help. Did I want to be happy? No, they're right about that. I was so miserable that I thought that happy people simply didn't get it, didn't see reality. So of course I didn't want to live with my head in the sand. That's how I saw happiness: as a denial of reality. Even now, I usually scorn happiness. I've had too many years of conditioning to just throw off that attitude in an instant. So I have a big hurdle to get over.

But, oh, if I really WANTED to be happy, I would be! Instantly! Just by thinking happy thoughts!
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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spacerace

Quote from: LearnedHand on March 31, 2013, 06:37:02 PM
If you're talking about a recent post I wrote, I said that's how I deal with things (I even made "I" in bold so people wouldn't think I was saying that's how everyone should be). I try to catch myself early and work through things before it gets bad enough where I'd need some sort of professional help, of course I know not everyone can catch things early, and I am sure I have some issues now that I haven't caught and I am not even aware of. 

I wasn't talking about any post that you made.  I also wasn't referring to that thread where someone got a bit sensitive, which I think is what Simon is describing.

It happened/happens all over the place though, and my comment was not reference to anything specific. I've just caught myself a handful of times lately about to respond to posts that speak this way and then deleted my replies because I decided I did not want to derail the thread.

As for excuses, personal responsibility is still important, just like it is with anyone who has to face adversity.  The fact that some people use it as an excuse is the same as any using an excuse for anything; it does not invalidate its realness . I just think it shouldn't be something that everyone approaches from a position of doubt at the onset.

I completely agree that some people are super sensitive about things they should just let roll off them.  This point, however, is about an objective reality - not something that should be debated as whether it actually exists, as an illness that needs to be treated before it can actually be resolved, instead of something that happens to people who are not trying hard enough or whatever.
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democration

I feel like it's possible that I sometimes come off as dismissive to problems that I don't have experience with, but I really try to accept that everyone deals with life differently. Like I said in another post, I've been severely depressed and suicidal off and on for years -- but there's really no 'cause' for it, no event or reason for me or anyone else to point fingers at, and that makes it hard in that when people ask why I'm depressed, all I can say is "I don't know."

I can't remember exactly what it was that happened, but recently my mom told me that I should stop being so miserable. It was kind of interesting, because a lot of the time, I don't really feel like I'm expressing any kind of sadness or whatever, generally I feel like I put up a pretty good front... but maybe not. I mentioned the comment to my boyfriend, who kind of laughed and agreed with my mom. It wasn't offensive in either case, but kind of disheartening. I wish I could change something, and be happy, but I don't know what's wrong in the first place, and I can't help it.

I've taken anti-depression medicine, and while it did make me less depressed, it sort of drained me of all other emotion as well. I quit taking it after a couple of months, but I'm starting to wonder if apathy isn't preferable to depression.




When we have lost everything, including hope,
Life becomes a disgrace, and death a duty.
v o l t a i r e
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