Transsexual regret

[DawnL]

I don't come to Susan's too often anymore.  Rather surprisingly, I have a life post-op in every sense of the word,
family, friends, a job, a thriving life in the music world beyond my "day" job.  I have no regrets, post-op, about the
surgery.  I have always been a woman.  The surgery just fixed a birth defect--in my mind--but, I have to lie about
my past.  My spouse and I remain best friends...but in a sometimes uneasy relationship caught somewhere between
past and present.  We both agree this current situation is far from perfect--I happily report our love has somehow
transcended this mess.  Clients still call me "he".  I cringe and dream of working elsewhere.  I live an uneasy life
somewhere between stealth and out.  Right now, it works...but for how long?  Still, no regret.  The alternative
for me was death--still is.

Dawn

[Teri Anne]

Diane - Thanks for the kind words.  Good luck in whatever path you choose.

DawnL - Good to "see" you again.  I'm glad you have a thriving, busy, post-op life.  My ex and I are still best friends.  She remarried and is quite happy.  Amazingly enough, last winter I flew to New York to visit both of them and stay in their guest room for a week.  My ex drove me around showing me the sights of her town and New York.  Her new hubby is remarkable - He treats me with respect as a friend.  Obviously, if I still appeared to be a male (ie. if I was a guy), I don't think I would have been invited.

How life can turn.

Teri Anne

[Julie Marie]

With all the resources available today, the HBSOC, the DSM, the therapy sessions, the hormone regimens, the real life experience, I really can't imagine how anyone could regret their SRS/transition in this day and age.   

tink

About a year ago I was talking to a CD I know when she asked me if I intend to have SRS.  I said yes.  Then she said don't because a girl she was just talking to said she regretted it totally.  When she told me who she was talking about I was shocked she had the surgery because in listening to her at a support meeting I felt she was nowhere near ready to have the surgery. 

No matter how good the therapy or the therapist is there are people who can fool themselves and the therapist and manage to get that letter in their hands.  Some people are looking to solve a problem and think this is the way to do it.

Julie

[cindianna_jones]

There was someone who came into the fourms a few months ago who regretted having surgery. The story sounded suspect. I thought it was a troll. But it may have been possible that she had the surgery many years ago before the standards were well established.

Cindi

[Thundra]

:: sigh ::  I know it sounds harsh, but this is why I say caveat emptor.

No matter what anyone does, if someone is hellbent on having surgery, for whatever reason, they will jump through the correct hoops to do so.

I personally feel that it is ridiculous for 1% of the patients to control the process for the other 99% that have their head in the right place. Especially since these 1% are going to do it their way no matter what.

Which is why I advocate that the surgery is between the surgeon and the patient. If the patient signs a release form, they are done, and the surgeon is not responsible. They [surgeons] are there to help people, but they can't be responsible for people that will lie to get their way.

I agree that people should seek out therapeutic help if they are under stress, and someone seeking to transition their gender would qualify. But this onus that was created for the therapist to act as a gatekeeper is to me, an outdated notion -- well-meaning, but pointless.
I think that therapists need to get back into the business of helping people deal with taking responsibility for their own actions, and out of the business of trying to manipuate people into a certain course of action.

Maybe, just maybe if that power were removed from them, than people coming into a therapists office would feel free to discuss their issues rather than telling whatever story was needed to obtain the service they desire. In essence, giving people more freedom and control over their behaviour could engender an environment, where a therapist could help a person discover that the issue(s) motivating them to feel compelled to obtain GRS or whatever, will not help them solve the issue. I don't feel that the current climate, somewhat adverserial, and definitely coersive, does anything to help the 1% from obtaining said GRS or other surgery anyway. Freedom is needed to develop a bond of trust, and if a person feels constrained from talking about issues out of fear of losing access to their compulsion, than nothing has been gained. That person will surely lie, because they have so much to lose, in their own mind.
Remove the barrier, and that person now has the freedom to actually talk freely to their therapist.

It may sound silly, and it may be contrary to everything everyone has been taught, but from my POV, the system isn't doing anything to help the situation as it is now. And we all know that the definition for insanity is to do the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Even if this does nothing to help the 1% people, at least it has freed up the actions of the other 99%. And who here, if PO, would not have chosen to have corrective surgery at the getgo were it available? I can tell you what all the people I've known would say unanimously -- if I was going to do it anyway, why not get it out of the way, so as to focus on lifeskills instead of worrying about when or if surgery will become available.

To me, it like my Mother's theory on kids and candy. The more you restrict it, the more valuable it becomes. So, she used to place candy out in the middle of the table for any of us to grab what we wanted, when we wanted it. It was there, 24/7, twelve months per year.
Did we stuff ourselves with candy? No. We barely thought about it. It was just there. I think perhaps if surgery were removed from the holy grail of trassexualism, than the compulsion to have surgery might lessen as well.

[taru]

Maybe, just maybe if that power were removed from them, than people coming into a therapists office would feel free to discuss their issues rather than telling whatever story was needed to obtain the service they desire. In essence, giving people more freedom and control over their behaviour could engender an environment, where a therapist could help a person discover that the issue(s) motivating them to feel compelled to obtain GRS or whatever, will not help them solve the issue. I don't feel that the current climate, somewhat adverserial, and definitely coersive, does anything to help the 1% from obtaining said GRS or other surgery anyway. Freedom is needed to develop a bond of trust, and if a person feels constrained from talking about issues out of fear of losing access to their compulsion, than nothing has been gained. That person will surely lie, because they have so much to lose, in their own mind.
Remove the barrier, and that person now has the freedom to actually talk freely to their therapist.

Not being completely honest with therapists is also not so uncommon for the 99% of people. E.g. liking bdsm or being poly are not contraindications to being TS (and have nothing to do with it), but some therapists may see them as sick and cause problems. Thus people end up polishing "unnecessary" details from their stories.

[Omika]

:: sigh ::  I know it sounds harsh, but this is why I say caveat emptor.

No matter what anyone does, if someone is hellbent on having surgery, for whatever reason, they will jump through the correct hoops to do so.

I personally feel that it is ridiculous for 1% of the patients to control the process for the other 99% that have their head in the right place. Especially since these 1% are going to do it their way no matter what.

Which is why I advocate that the surgery is between the surgeon and the patient. If the patient signs a release form, they are done, and the surgeon is not responsible. They [surgeons] are there to help people, but they can't be responsible for people that will lie to get their way.

I agree that people should seek out therapeutic help if they are under stress, and someone seeking to transition their gender would qualify. But this onus that was created for the therapist to act as a gatekeeper is to me, an outdated notion -- well-meaning, but pointless.
I think that therapists need to get back into the business of helping people deal with taking responsibility for their own actions, and out of the business of trying to manipuate people into a certain course of action.

Maybe, just maybe if that power were removed from them, than people coming into a therapists office would feel free to discuss their issues rather than telling whatever story was needed to obtain the service they desire. In essence, giving people more freedom and control over their behaviour could engender an environment, where a therapist could help a person discover that the issue(s) motivating them to feel compelled to obtain GRS or whatever, will not help them solve the issue. I don't feel that the current climate, somewhat adverserial, and definitely coersive, does anything to help the 1% from obtaining said GRS or other surgery anyway. Freedom is needed to develop a bond of trust, and if a person feels constrained from talking about issues out of fear of losing access to their compulsion, than nothing has been gained. That person will surely lie, because they have so much to lose, in their own mind.
Remove the barrier, and that person now has the freedom to actually talk freely to their therapist.

It may sound silly, and it may be contrary to everything everyone has been taught, but from my POV, the system isn't doing anything to help the situation as it is now. And we all know that the definition for insanity is to do the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Even if this does nothing to help the 1% people, at least it has freed up the actions of the other 99%. And who here, if PO, would not have chosen to have corrective surgery at the getgo were it available? I can tell you what all the people I've known would say unanimously -- if I was going to do it anyway, why not get it out of the way, so as to focus on lifeskills instead of worrying about when or if surgery will become available.

To me, it like my Mother's theory on kids and candy. The more you restrict it, the more valuable it becomes. So, she used to place candy out in the middle of the table for any of us to grab what we wanted, when we wanted it. It was there, 24/7, twelve months per year.
Did we stuff ourselves with candy? No. We barely thought about it. It was just there. I think perhaps if surgery were removed from the holy grail of trassexualism, than the compulsion to have surgery might lessen as well.

God damn.  I think she hit a bullseye with this one.

However, what you are suggesting, Thundra, is that people use common sense and honesty to get through life.  As we all know, this is the best policy, but the majority of people (in this society in particular) are so terrified of everything that they feel they need numbers and official documents and trained professionals to protect them from bad things. 

Like you stated yourself.  Numbers and restrictions mean nothing to overwhelming emotion; it can't be blocked.  Where there's a will, there's a way.

Let's change the world, baby!

~ Blair

[tinkerbell]

There was someone who came into the fourms a few months ago who regretted having surgery. The story sounded suspect. I thought it was a troll. But it may have been possible that she had the surgery many years ago before the standards were well established.

Cindi

Troll!

tink

[Teri Anne]

Thundra, your argument for getting rid of the gatekeepers is logical and I can tell you that I had the same feelings, both preop and postop.  I felt that anyone with 1/2 a brain could answer therapists' questions and get the letter.  It's similar to the supposid gatekeeping that stores put applicants through when applying for minimum wage work.  Some of the questions deal with theft: "Have you stolen property from previous employers?"  Most people have taken pens from employers so the answer SHOULD be "Yes."  "Would you find it difficult if the job you were assigned to was boring?"  The answer COULD be, "Yes, I hate boring jobs"  But no, you'll answer "No, no matter what the job is, there's always SOMETHING that I find interesting!"  You answer, unless you're brain dead, is to always assert positive thinking -- either that, or you don't get the job, or you don't get the SRS permission letter.

The biggest problem with scrapping the gatekeeper aspect is that, despite your logical POV, therapists and doctors are scared like heck of being sued.  You can imagine the headlines now:  "Doctor and therapist sued by VICTIM who states he was conned into it."  Violence and sex stories always leap to the front pages of newspapers because they sell.  To have a non-gatekeeper setup to get SRS, you would have to have one heck of a WAIVER from being sued document.  And, even then, some idiots just looking to pay off the hefty SRS expenses could sue.  Most TS's have a strong sense of morality but it's that 1% that you talk about that wrecks it for us.  That is true with most things:  A small group of terrorists now make it so we ALL have to wait in slow security lines at airports.  A few idiot high school kids shoot their guns at school and now we have schools with metal detectors at the entrances.  One idiot puts poison into a food package and we all end up paying for higher packaging costs.

The only scenario I see where you and I could get our way of getting rid of therapists as gatekeepers is when, presumably ten or twenty years from now, medical experts narrow the specific gene or DNA component that causes transsexualism.  Some will undoubtably argue, when they don't have that gene, "but I still feel like I have the body of the wrong gender."  And they could be right.  And 100 years from now, further medical studies might show that they were right, also.

It's hard.  I know.  I hated the idea of gatekeepers.  Being I'm libertarian, I'm against a lot of society's controls.  But,chin up and jump that hoop.  In time, it'll be over with and you can get on with life.

Teri Anne

[Melissa]

I personally do not believe being TS is genetic because it does not seem to be something that is passed down from parent to child and if that happens to be the case, it is so rare, that the data could not be used to prove it.  If I could have had SRS from the very beginning, I probably still would have gone the route I'm going because I could not have afforded SRS at the beginning and living life as a woman with the wrong gentials is much more appealing than living as a man with a vagina.  I didn't go through all of this to change my genitals, I did it to be a woman in as many aspects as possible and I feel living fulltime as a woman gives you more of those aspects than SRS does.

Melissa

[Thundra]

The biggest problem with scrapping the gatekeeper aspect is that, despite your logical POV, therapists and doctors are scared like heck of being sued.  You can imagine the headlines now:  "Doctor and therapist sued by VICTIM who states he was conned into it."  Violence and sex stories always leap to the front pages of newspapers because they sell.  To have a non-gatekeeper setup to get SRS, you would have to have one heck of a WAIVER from being sued document.  And, even then, some idiots just looking to pay off the hefty SRS expenses could sue.  Most TS's have a strong sense of morality but it's that 1% that you talk about that wrecks it for us.  That is true with most things:  A small group of terrorists now make it so we ALL have to wait in slow security lines at airports.  A few idiot high school kids shoot their guns at school and now we have schools with metal detectors at the entrances.  One idiot puts poison into a food package and we all end up paying for higher packaging costs.

A very valid analysis m'dear. It's always that one idiot that screws up things for the everyone else.

But, I think that you get what you ask for -- not always right away, but eventually things change. And if people are willing to being coerced into a certain way of doing things, than it will not change. If however, people stand up and demand things to change, than eventually they will.

Queer people in general have more rights than people that go through this transition process, for that very reason. They demanded that things change. A good example is removal of homosexuality from the DSM-IV, as a mental illness. I think that over time, as more and more people transitioning demand that the status quo be modified, that the process will evolve into something where the patients have more control than they do presently.

I know that it is too late for the people that have been there, and done that, but it will definitely help the people still waiting to wade their turn thru the quagmire.

I personally do not believe being TS is genetic because it does not seem to be something that is passed down from parent to child and if that happens to be the case, it is so rare, that the data could not be used to prove it.

Personally, I don't think it really matters. If you have a condition, that can be treated by a variety of means, it doesn't really matter, to me, what causes it. And since you are responsible for seeking out treatment, and paying for almost the whole cost of it with little to no help, than I don't see what right anybody has in trying to control your treatment regimen?

If I could have had SRS from the very beginning, I probably still would have gone the route I'm going because I could not have afforded SRS at the beginning and living life as a woman with the wrong gentials is much more appealing than living as a man with a vagina.  I didn't go through all of this to change my genitals, I did it to be a woman in as many aspects as possible and I feel living fulltime as a woman gives you more of those aspects than SRS does.

Understandable, and yet, wouldn't the transition have been simpler and fraught with less acrimony if you didn't have to constantly be worried about whether someone would accidently find out about your genitalia? I say again, no other woman has to have her genitalia inspected before she uses the restroom, so why should you? If it is your intention to have the surgery anyway, why not get it done if it is available to you?

Every other woman is born female, and grows into whatever kind of woman she becomes. Why shouldn't you be able to do the same? Nothing would stop you from doing everything else you have done, or intend to do anyway? So, why do it in opposite order than what usually occurs for most women? Born with vagina -- socialized as woman. I mean you have a distinct advantage over your opposites, those transitioning the other way, but that point also stands.

Why not have breast surgery first, take Testosterone second? I don't see a problem with this idea?

[JaneX]

My first regret is that I did not transition in my teens. My second regret is that legal status of gender corrected persons is still a limbo depending on which state you were born in. I also don't like like argueing with my supposed peers, because they disagree with my decision to seek full female status, when they are happy just to be transsexuals.

http://groups.msn.com/EqualrightsforGenderCorrectedpersons

peace

JaneX

[katia]

My first regret is that I did not transition in my teens. My second regret is that legal status of gender corrected persons is still a limbo depending on which state you were born in. I also don't like like argueing with my supposed peers, because they disagree with my decision to seek full female status, when they are happy just to be transsexuals.

http://groups.msn.com/EqualrightsforGenderCorrectedpersons

peace

JaneX

this thread is about regrets concerning grs , and not [about difficulties] in achieving transition.

[cindianna_jones]

JaneX,

We'd love to hear your story.  Why don't you start a thread about it?

Cindi

[Sarah Louise]

This is a 2007 thread. 

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