Yeson voice feminization surgery

[ElleA]

Spiel wouldn't be advised either, dr Kim wanted me to stop taking everything.

[ImagineKate]

Spiel wouldn't be advised either, dr Kim wanted me to stop taking everything.

For 14 days or just day before?

[ElleA]

14 days is best

[anjaq]

They want you to stop estrogens and antiandrogens, they even asked me to stop progesterone. I talked to this with my endocrinologist and she gave me in writing that I should not stop transdermal estrogens or progesterone - bringing my stabilized hormonal balance out of what would rather hinder my healing and resistance to side effects. She was however saying that something like antiandrogens or estradiol tablets are a different thing. AFAIK those latter ones are increasing thrombosis risk and are a strain on the liver. I followed my endocrinologists advice and kept doing the transdermal estradiol and progesterone capsules until the day of arrival. I stopped all medication including my thyroid hormones then however for the day of examination and the day of surgery. Yeson are doing a blood test, but hormones do not appear on it.

[ImagineKate]

They want you to stop estrogens and antiandrogens, they even asked me to stop progesterone. I talked to this with my endocrinologist and she gave me in writing that I should not stop transdermal estrogens or progesterone - bringing my stabilized hormonal balance out of what would rather hinder my healing and resistance to side effects. She was however saying that something like antiandrogens or estradiol tablets are a different thing. AFAIK those latter ones are increasing thrombosis risk and are a strain on the liver. I followed my endocrinologists advice and kept doing the transdermal estradiol and progesterone capsules until the day of arrival. I stopped all medication including my thyroid hormones then however for the day of examination and the day of surgery. Yeson are doing a blood test, but hormones do not appear on it.

Makes sense. I am asking Jessie for confirmation but it looks like just E and spiro.

[ImagineKate]

Jessie said just hormones and aspirin. I will stop the spiro too. Just hope it doesn't send my blood pressure out of whack. Everything else is ok.

[anjaq]

AFAIK they ask you during the examination to not take any medication on the morning or surgery - if onyl so you can avoid that sip of water that you are not allowed 😉 - but you can start right on the evening again, since you have no period of staying in hospital bed for long, so no real risk of thrombosis or blood pressure issues. They will give you an infusion with some stuff during surgery, antibiotics, cortisone,...

But sind it overall is only a 1 hour surgery, I would not sweat too much about the medication, just be sure you avoid anything like aspirin or other blood thinning medication, that could cause bleeding.

[mk854]

Hi ElleA,

How are you doing and how does your voice sound now. I still don't feel any difference in my voice than before VFS. However, 4 months didn't pass yet and I am still hopeful. I am doing voice exercise with a speech pathologist. My voice is scratchy and I am very sad. Michelle

[anjaq]

Oh, how long is it for you now, Michelle? In what way is the voice the same - do others see that the same way? Did the voice turn to be better and then worse again or was it the same?
Have you checked endoscopic videos and does it still look good? Dr Kim said I can send him a video and voice file and he can see then if all is ok at the end of the month 2. Did you give your voice enough rest and follow the instructions? I am a bit worried that I may overuse the voic enow. I am just past week 5 and notice that my voice gets bad rather quickly and I wonder if I should rather try to not use it to prevent it from suffering damage. But then again, Dr Kim said it is safe to speak as long as one gives it enough rest.
The main difference I noticed now is the change in timbre - that change is more dramatic than the change in pitch, but the low pitches are definitely gone, have you tried if your lowest pitch range changed, Michelle?

[ImagineKate]

AFAIK they ask you during the examination to not take any medication on the morning or surgery - if onyl so you can avoid that sip of water that you are not allowed 😉 - but you can start right on the evening again, since you have no period of staying in hospital bed for long, so no real risk of thrombosis or blood pressure issues. They will give you an infusion with some stuff during surgery, antibiotics, cortisone,...

But sind it overall is only a 1 hour surgery, I would not sweat too much about the medication, just be sure you avoid anything like aspirin or other blood thinning medication, that could cause bleeding.

Yeah I am just nervous... my whole chronic health conditions are very scary for me. Totally uncharted territory. I am very cautious. One reason I do my primary care with my HRT. They are super nice and manage everything perfectly.

[ElleA]

Hi Michelle,

I feel pretty good, my voice is a little higher than it was before surgery but not much. And definitely scratchy. I noticed a massive difference after doing voice exercises each time. My pitch goes up and I sound more breathy than scratchy.

It's early days and I know from other surgeries that it is usually 4-5 months minimum before you notice any major improvements.  I'm just staying positive and trying to do my best to look after my voice.

Hope you start seeing improvements and feeling better about it all. Surgery is one of those things that can feel like a bad choice if you don't notice changes immediately after the recovery period. Just stick in there and I am sure you will see a difference soon.

[mk854]

Hi Anjac,
It is 2 months and 14 days since my VFS. No I didn't send Dr. Kim any voice sample yet.  I asked Dr. Kim before leaving Seoul that I need to talk at my work after 5 weeks of rest, and he said it was ok to talk as long as I give my voice enough rest, which I did. I have much more lower pitch range that I never had before.
No my coworkers and doctors didn't say anything about my voice because I am stealth and no one knows. Even before surgery my voice was acceptable and no one ever said anything.
Anjac, If you allow me to send you my before and after voice samples, then please send me your email at mk854@hotmail.com. After listening to my voice sample, let me know if it is better or worse before I go completely nuts; it seems that you know this voice business more than anyone here. 
How can I analyze my voice to measure voice pitch and frequencies? I have down loaded Audacity on my laptop but don't know what I am looking for there other than listening to my voice recording. Thank you very much for your response. Michelle

[ImagineKate]

Check out this thread:


https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150142.0.html

[mk854]

Imagine Kate,

Thank you very much for your assistance. Michelle

[Teslagirl]

Check out this thread:


https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150142.0.html

Hi Kate.

I looked at the Praat tutorials from Jenny and found out although my pitch is in the female range, my 3rd formant is androgenous. As I understand it, the Yeson surgery doesn't affect the 3rd formant, so is there any point in my having the surgery do you think?

Sarah

[ImagineKate]

Hi Kate.

I looked at the Praat tutorials from Jenny and found out although my pitch is in the female range, my 3rd formant is androgenous. As I understand it, the Yeson surgery doesn't affect the 3rd formant, so is there any point in my having the surgery do you think?

Sarah

I don't know, did you ask them to evaluate you with a voice file?

They recommend training after the surgery anyway, which is what I plan to do.

[anjaq]

As I understand it the third formant is a possibility to make a decision about the sound of a voice. I dont think it is as important as one may think. Of course, if you are in a better range there, the overall impression will most likely be better. I cannot yet tell you what the surgery changes in that respect - but I suspect it has an effect. What is most apparent for me at this stage is that the timbre has changes, the low undertones are gone. I still have to improve my resonance and some things about the way I speak and intonations - but I think I am mostly there in those, I just have to let go and relax more , now that my voice has changed and doe snot need to be forced anymore 🙂 - voice therapy, as people tell here over and over again is needed in conjunction woth the Yeson procedure. Its a voice supporting surgery - it makes it easier and more relaxed to use the voice in a feminine way and it eleiminates some male traits. What you do from that stage on still is up to you and voice training, therapy, rehabilitation,...

[JenP]

I've spent the afternoon and evening reading through most of this and there is a wealth of information. One things that I am concerned about is that my voice is already on the higher end of male range when relaxed. A natural 'mmmm' sound is somewhere between 140 and 150hz.I can fairly easily pull that up to 220hz. Based on the vocal range increase of 75hz, this puts me at 225+ after surgery. I feel like for me that is a little too high and I normally baseline my voice closer to 210 (G3 or G3# instead of A3) in the mornings. Is it possible to limit the increase slightly so that I don't end up higher than comfortable. Some people seem to have gone well above the 75hz increase into the 230+ range and that just doesnt feel right for me. Actually, Ashlee from the Lets Fly Butterfly tumblr is the video that totally sold me on the procedure, but her increase does not seem as significant. Is that a conversation that takes place with Dr Kim? I have already spoken with Jessie and scheduled a date, but this is the one reservation I still have. Anyone have good luck post op with a passable voice and high starting male voice mean?

[ElleA]

Hey Jen, it's definitely something you can discuss with Jessie or Dr Kim. In my experience so far it just makes it easier to hold the higher pitches and my voice now just sits naturally at the pitch that I was forcing before.

I had very similar pitches to you before surgery but I would get lower of the day as my voice tired.

[anjaq]

You can tell Dr Kim to limit the increase. He can shorten the vocal folds by only 30% or by up to 50% - However, their analysis of the voice is more comprehensive than what one can do at home with praat , I think, so it can be that something else will come out. Dr Kim definitely does not want anyone to leave there with a voice that is too high. He sent back some people who had already female range voices because it would have gotten them into the 260Hz+ range and he also takes into account your body size - a very big woman with a tiny high pitched voice is odd, so he is open to all kinds of concerns.

My feeling from the little experience I have now is that pitch increase is not as dramatic by "force", but it is easier to use higher pitches. I guess if I want, I can later on easily speak at 230 Hz, but probably I will rather use a 180 Hz range (started at 134 according to Dr Kim). But we'll see. A lot of the perception about pitch in the ear of the listener ist also timbre. If I talk at the same pitch (according to PRAAT) now compared to pre-op, it still sounds higher pitched becauser the low undertones are gone.

I think Dr Kim really is an artist, he will know what to do and answer all your questions and adress all your concerns. I have not yet met any doctor in my country who tool as much time to listen to me and my concerns and then actually adress all of them. I think you can trust him 🙂