Is Atheism (becoming) a religion (belief system)?

[Tak]

Theism is the belief in the existence of one or more divinities or deities.

No, to be precise, your definition fits for DEISM. Theism is the belief in The One, Omnipotent God.

tmw

Deism is a belief in a god or gods based on nature and reason, without revelation being a part of it... or the belief that a god created the universe but simply doesn't get involved any longer. The vast majority believe that a perfect God would not create an imperfect world and then come along later to fix the problems -- thusly God would stay uninvolved in ANYTHING past creation. Most of the founding fathers of America were, in actuality, Deists.

Theism encompases all belief in any religion, not just "The One, Omnipotent God" -- deism is a category of theism, but theism is not a part of deism. Calling myself an "Adeist" would imply that I'm not disregarding Revelation, which I do. I disregard all religion, however the way I see it Deism (by the definition of various dictionaries, religioustolerance.org, and several other sources) and Atheism aren't opposed in the slightest -- they should actually get along quite well with their "people should be worrying more about other people than spending money building churches to pray to someone who isn't there or isn't listening" ideals. Theists, however, will build huge numbers of churches -- using money that could've been used for hospitals or charities. Not to say that Theists are not charitable, but the money spent to aggrandize their own religious beliefs in the process of their charities to others could be used in a much more charitable fashion.

I don't disagree with Deism beyond their belief in some god's (or gods') participation in creation -- and I would not disagree on that point either, if not for the simple matter that I just don't care whether God was there doing it or not.

[katia]

 

jeannette, atheism [isn't] a religion in any sense of the word. i don't pursue "being without belief in gods" with zeal. it's simply my stance. i may respond to questions based on this stance, but so too do people who think the dodgers are the best team ever respond based on their stance. are they responding religiously?

furthermore, a cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion doesn't refer to religion in the sense that it does with christianity. religion, in the context of this definition, would be used for exaggerating the significance of the enjoyment of a habit or activity in which one engages.

like "i love jogging... i do it every day religiously" or "watching "regis and kelly"  is my religion".

it's [not] meant to imply that "jogging" or "watching regis and kelly" or anything else applicable by the standards of this definition should be considered categorically equivalent to organized religion. 

[Yvonne]

Its not a religion. However, it can be fundamentalist when it approaches situations dogmatically and rigidly. To say its a religion and based on faith is like saying those who dont believe that we have evidence for the tooth faerie are following the Non-Tooth-Faerie religion and have faith in that; we would have to define every demand for evidence as being indicative of some faith then. 

[The Middle Way]

I am excerpting from the Wikipedia entry, Fundamentalism:

Fundamentalism originally referred to a movement in North American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism (see below, "History"), stressing that the Bible is literally inerrant, not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record.
...

The term is now used much more widely, both to refer to fundamentalists of other faiths, particularly Islam, and to refer to anyone who believes that unvarying principles must apply to all people or every situation.

As "fundamentalism" seems to be currently quite a subjective term, one promising approach is to investigate (or at least make explicit as a basis for further debate) the premises or criteria on which the judgment is based.

In its broadest usage in general terms, it denotes strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles; or, in the words of the American Heritage Dictionary: "a usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."

[emphasis mine]

tmw

[tinkerbell]

LOL, I love this little guy.    Now, it seems to me that it is us, people who believe in a higher power, that are constantly confusing Atheism with Religion; at the same time, we are also the ones who criticize Atheists for not being religious.  Does this make any sense? 

As far as I know, Atheism is by definition "not" the lack of religion (as someone answered here), but the "disbelief" in or "denial" of the existence of God or gods.  I have known many Christians who seem to believe that atheism is a religion, but no one with a fair understanding of both concepts would make such a mistake.  Like transsexuality, misrepresenting atheism as a religion can undermine people's ability to understand religion itself. *sighs*


tink

[cindianna_jones]

Yes Tink, it is rather amusing.  It's another example where we imagine that other people think and feel like we do. Many of us believe that everyone else sees the world if not in a similar way, at least one that is related to our fundamental core understanding.

It is not the case however.  There are many concepts, ideas, and practices that are completely foreign to us. One does not have to have any relation or bearing on the other.  They are separate and distinct in many cases.

I'm reminded of a saying I heard once which describes the absurdity of connecting two non related concepts of understanding:  "A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle."  Or another oldie but goodie:  "Nada que ver."

Cindi

[Autumn]

At first I thought this topic was meant as the tongue-in-cheek jab at rabid atheists.

There really are a lot of them out there, particularly in my generation. Any time god is brought up it's all f god ( watching my language), f christians, sheep, etc. There's not much point to a conversation with them. Not, really, that I believe the topic has much conversational value to begin with.

I certainly went through my "lol religion" phase after I lost my faith. And honestly, the only people I can bring myself to occasionally hate are religious zealots because all of the world's worst problems stem from them. But I'd much rather be left out of conversations now than try to trumpet the atheist horn because I feel that one's spirituality is something that grows and changes with life. Also because I'm agnostic rather than atheist now  . Your own personal feelings, whatever they are, are the only thing that's right in my opinion, which pretty much voids the validity of any organized belief system. Especially since most organized belief systems bend the rules whenever it's convenient or "modernized", invalidating the whole thing anyway. I mean, it's great for a church to approve of homosexuality, but by the very nature of that acceptance, you're no longer a christian organization because you're breaking the law of the bible. It's great to see progressive religious groups, but at the same time, it's blasphemy and goes from being a religion to just being a social gathering where people preach about being good people. I mean, of course, to them it's still whatever they believe it to be.

That said, some atheists very much do take atheism to a religious level. Which again is absurd. If you become as much of a persecuting, closed minded zealot as those you're accusing of the same sins... forest for the trees and all that.

I had a religious discussion with a dear friend of mine the other day. She was offended by the da vinci code being a wiccan sermon that went out of its way to antagonize christian faith just for the sake of doing so. And she made comment about how it's the in thing for many people to attack christianity. My response was that I can't really perceive offense the way she does because throughout my entire life I've seen every religion persecute my beliefs, so I just ignore it.

[cindianna_jones]

Autumn... good point!  There are "Christian haters" that proclaim to be atheists. That camp does seem to have a religious zeal to it.  And perhaps it was for them that this thread was created.

Cindi

[Elizabeth]

LOL, I love this little guy.    Now, it seems to me that it is us, people who believe in a higher power, that are constantly confusing Atheism with Religion; at the same time, we are also the ones who criticize Atheists for not being religious.  Does this make any sense? 

As far as I know, Atheism is by definition "not" the lack of religion (as someone answered here), but the "disbelief" in or "denial" of the existence of God or gods.  I have known many Christians who seem to believe that atheism is a religion, but no one with a fair understanding of both concepts would make such a mistake.  Like transsexuality, misrepresenting atheism as a religion can undermine people's ability to understand religion itself. *sighs*


tink

Main Entry:
    athe·ist Listen to the pronunciation of atheist
Pronunciation:
    \ˈā-thē-ist\
Function:
    noun
Date:
    1551

: one who believes that there is no deity

Main Entry:
    de·i·ty Listen to the pronunciation of deity Listen to the pronunciation of deity
Pronunciation:
    \ˈdē-ə-tē, ˈdā-\
Function:
    noun
Inflected Form(s):
    plural -ties
Etymology:
    Middle English deitee, from Anglo-French deité, from Late Latin deitat-, deitas, from Latin deus god; akin to Old English Tīw, god of war, Latin divus god, dies day, Greek dios heavenly, Sanskrit deva heavenly, god
Date:
    14th century

1 a: the rank or essential nature of a god : divinity bcapitalized : god 1, supreme being2: a god or goddess <the deities of ancient Greece>3: one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful

I don't like this whole idea that one needs to have a label for one that doesn't recognize the beleifs of other religions. Atheists don't deny that god exists. They just don't believe in the religions that do. Do we have a name for those who don't believe in ghosts? Do we have a name for those who don't believe in witches? Do we have a name for those who don't believe in genies? Do we have a name for those who don't believe UFO abductions?

It's as if those who believe in a god think it's a proven fact that a god does exist and anyone who does not believe is somehow flawed and in need of a label. Really it's a tool of discrimination. Even though I do not believe in a god of any kind, I have kept that to myself because of discrimination. It was not until the anonymity of the internet that people like me are finally allowed to say we don't believe without fear of retribution.

Let's be clear about this, atheism is a label needed by those who believe in a god, not those who do not.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Jeannette]

Actually the answer to my question is YES and NO, for it depends on how you define the word "religion".

If you set up a definition of it where the only real requirements are that you have a philosophy that tries to explain life and death and our place in the universe, then yes, atheism is a religion.

If, however, you choose to include the requirement that it has to have a positive belief in some sort of god or gods, then no, atheism is not a religion.

It all depends on how you define that word that humans have invented.
We're not dealing with universal truth when it comes to that definition. We're dealing with semantics.

[Autumn]

I think most people will generally say that religion needs the presence of some sort of divine worship to be defined as religion. I can say that the sock I'm wearing is a glove, and I can vaguely use it as one, but it's still a sock.

I think trying to pull the "Ha ha, you're actually religious" card on atheists is akin to the way people antagonize religious people by claiming conflicting faith. I have a friend who says he's a pagan-christian-agnostic. He wants to practice wicca, disbelieves the bible, and isn't sure of the existence of God. I told him it doesn't work that way, but he won't listen. He eventually admitted the Christian label is just to piss off christians, but apparently he believes jesus and God may exist. So basically, you can spout a bunch of random crap and define it the way you want.

Not that I want to compare you to him, Jeannette, because with how I define things, that'd be an insult and you don't deserve it. Just with all of the philosophical threads as of late where people break things down and redefine things or establish that nothing has real definition, it's easy to get lost in a circle of "But if you look at it this way, then it's x!"

I think it's fairer to say something like

belief system/philosophy/outlook/whatever
v
v
religion --------------------- not religion
v --------------------------------v
v --------------------------------v
christian -- muslim -----------Atheist -- Agnostic -- Buddhist

etc.

[Elizabeth]

Its not a religion. However, it can be fundamentalist when it approaches situations dogmatically and rigidly. To say its a religion and based on faith is like saying those who dont believe that we have evidence for the tooth faerie are following the Non-Tooth-Faerie religion and have faith in that; we would have to define every demand for evidence as being indicative of some faith then. 

Very well said.

Love always,
Elizabeth