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Bye Bye Mormon Church...

Started by Chandra21, June 03, 2007, 05:49:05 AM

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Chandra21

Those of you who read my last post here, entitled "Religion and Transexuality, Why must they contradict?" will have noticed I was confused about my church (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) and its condemnation of my gender identity and aswell as my sexuality. I was being pulled in two directions as I believed the church was true but also knew that my gender identity disorder was not a choice I made nor was my sexuality. Needless to say I didn't know what to do at all...

Well, today is Sunday... and I sit here with my Bible at my side and my Book of Mormon on the shelf (along with all my other religion study books)... with no intention to go to the LDS sacrament at all. I realized after reading the New Testament, that much of what the LDS church teaches has nothing to do with what Jesus and his Apostles preached. I also did some research into the LDS church that quickly made me lose my testimony of the Religion completely...

... but thats okay, because I have the bible and my testimony of it is stronger than ever! Its the only book I need to know Christ, my Lord and my savior, who will loves me eternally no matter what I do even if man will hate me or persicute for it, who will forgive me for all sins, and who will let me live in heaven with him for one simple thing: Believing in him. God is truly a wonderful being and I can't believe it took me so long to find him, when he was right under my nose, within the Bible I owned since i was 8 years old...

I love God... and no matter what happens to me in life... whether my fellow church members decide to never talk to me again for my losing faith in the religion... Or if people decide to hate me because I'm transexual or bisexual, I know that God will always love me...

Amen! ^_^
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Judge Yourself

I'm glad you can still take something from it,I certainly couldnt  I was Mormon for I think about 2/3 years. I had many an arguement with the missionaries and elders about homosexuality amongst other things. Their vew on gender - merely to segregate and teach me 'how to be a young woman' was enough for me to go running at the next available opportunity. They could never answer my questions and they do seem to make it up as they go along (this is by no means meaning to be offensive to anyone who is Mormon, it us just how i perceive it) What attracted me and kept me in the LDS Church was that they appeared to be somewhat more free than how id had found catholicism - restraining and orderly. Sure there was no orderly ceremonial church on sunday and we weren't all repeating the same lines but it was still restraining in that i couldn't 'mix' with the men much and i always felt inferior as a 'female' as they had no real power or authority, all they got was the fact they could read out their passages and stories they had written for the sunday. Every time i tried to question the church on anything they couldnt answer me and at that time i had just been blown off by my guidance teacher over gender 'isssues' so i tried to ask them, in a roundabout way and they looked at me like id just said i worship satan.. or similar. That and the fact i was told i should (but never did) wear a long skirt - to you know be dignified and all ;) - signified my desire to leave the church.. ahem that was ranty.. sorry :P
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Chandra21

Yes, I had major gender conflicts in the church aswell. I had the Priesthood authority and never really felt it had any power because I was spiritually female. But I knew I couldn't leave the church until I knew for a fact that It was not true... So I delved deeply into theh churches history and "antimormon" material... something the LDS leadership tells its members not to do (Hmmm.... why would it be so bad to do such a thing if its not true?). In about a month I found my answers.

So I have no regrets leaving. I'd rather have the true Christian God by my side and read about him, his true Prophets and his true Apostles, and there wonderful gospel, instead of sitting in church for three hours, as a man, listening to things that I know are probably from a plagerised book and being told how homosexuality (not so much transexuality, because its less common to the church) is a sin that God absolutely won't understand or tolerate (when, if you read the bible carefully God DID tolerate some homosexuality) and that woman and men should have different gender roles, and hearing "I know this church is true" every 5 minutes.

I've noticed that it seams like Missionaries and devote members make stuff up too when you try to challenge things... Even if you use biblical references to question the church. -_-

Oh well, I'm out now and I'm happier than ever ^_^
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Judge Yourself

haha its like 'you can back up anything with facts' I just didnt like the inequality of power... or complete lack of ;)
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cindianna_jones

My experience with the Mormon church is that it is cohesive and they clearly know the direction pretty much world wide.  I think that it has more solidarity in purpose than any other faith.  They are very good at disseminating their doctrines and administrative principles better than any other world wide religion.  This is not good or bad... just that they are very good at being more consistent.

The LDS religion will never side with us.  They won't.  You'll not get support.  It's official.

Chandra, whatever you do, don't bring up this subject with anyone in the Church.  Just let it slide.  Let them go on your own terms.  You do not want them to excommunicate you.  While officially being free may seem appealing in some respects, you really don't want this.  Excommunication is announced publically over the pulpit.  The reasons are not usually given, but no one can keep a secret and it will soon become common knowledge.  So just quietly disengage yourself from them.  If confronted, just tell them that you don't believe it anymore.  Don't challenge them.  Just tell them you are not interested.  You won't be ex'd for that.  You don't need to be publicly humiliated.

Cindi
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RebeccaFog

Hi Chandra,

   I'm happy to see you've made a decision. I remember your other thread about "Religion and Transexuality, Why must they contradict?" and it turned out to be a good one that had gotten people involved.
  I have to admit, I thought you were just sounding out your doubts there. I figured you'd spend years going over whether or not to leave the church. I understand that it can be difficult.

  As you said, you still have your bible. You also have an opportunity to find a church that fits you, if that's what you want to do. Leaving a church or denomination does not mean you are leaving God, so I know that God will always be with you.

Love,

Rebecca
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Jillieann Rose

Hello Chandra,
QuoteI have the bible and my testimony of it is stronger than ever! Its the only book I need to know Christ, my Lord and my savior, who will loves me eternally no matter what I do even if man will hate me or persicute for it, who will forgive me for all sins, and who will let me live in heaven with him for one simple thing: Believing in him. God is truly a wonderful being and I can't believe it took me so long to find him
Yes, faith is a relationship with God not a religious set of rules. No church is "the church" it just a group of people practicing what they believe God wants them to do.
QuoteYou also have an opportunity to find a church that fits you, if that's what you want to do. Leaving a church or denomination does not mean you are leaving God, so I know that God will always be with you.
Find a church where the people truly loves as Jesus did and you have found a group of people that will encourage you to be all that God wants you to be. May so called churches putting you in a straight jacket so to speak by telling you that you can do this and can't do that these are rules taught by men and not by God.
I'm happy for you.
Rejoice in the Lord,
Jillieann

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Chandra21

Quote from: Cindi Jones on June 03, 2007, 01:26:27 PM
My experience with the Mormon church is that it is cohesive and they clearly know the direction pretty much world wide.  I think that it has more solidarity in purpose than any other faith.  They are very good at disseminating their doctrines and administrative principles better than any other world wide religion.  This is not good or bad... just that they are very good at being more consistent.

The LDS religion will never side with us.  They won't.  You'll not get support.  It's official.

Chandra, whatever you do, don't bring up this subject with anyone in the Church.  Just let it slide.  Let them go on your own terms.  You do not want them to excommunicate you.  While officially being free may seem appealing in some respects, you really don't want this.  Excommunication is announced publically over the pulpit.  The reasons are not usually given, but no one can keep a secret and it will soon become common knowledge.  So just quietly disengage yourself from them.  If confronted, just tell them that you don't believe it anymore.  Don't challenge them.  Just tell them you are not interested.  You won't be ex'd for that.  You don't need to be publicly humiliated.

Cindi

Yes, I know what you mean about them being consistant all around, though their doctrine today is hardly consistant with the doctrine they had back in their early days. That was the first thing that made me question the validity of the church, as did the fact that they seamed to focus way to much on the BoM (and D&C) not enough on the Bible, which they always claimed to be just as important.

Yeah I kind of figured that they would side with us. I had a debate with some of the missionaries a couple weeks ago about homosexuality, and they acknowledged that it was probably biological and uncontrollable, but its a grave sin anyways (I don't see the logic in that... Thats like telling a visually impaired person that its a sin to wear glasses...), so I figured that it would be a pointless struggle to defend my GID or my sexuality with them.

So I shouldn't ask to get my name removed from their records? Okay. I would rather not be in the LDS records but I really don't want them telling everyone that I was excommunicated (which would be for "apostasy" as I would never reveal my personal life to them, but from my research I discovered "apostates" aren't to treated to kindly either.) when I left to get closer to Christ and not drift from him. It doesn't matter much if I'm in their records anyways. I know the church is a hoax (and a pathetic one at that...), and since I know that I can finally leave it without regrets and get to know the real Christ...

I just feel bad for all those people in LDS who are unaware of the truth. I know ignorance is bliss... but I also know that the truth will also set someone free. It sure as heck did for me, atleast! ^_^
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Hazumu

Quote from: Chandra21 on June 03, 2007, 03:51:44 PMYeah I kind of figured that they would side with us. I had a debate with some of the missionaries a couple weeks ago about homosexuality, and they acknowledged that it was probably biological and uncontrollable, but its a grave sin anyways (I don't see the logic in that... Thats like telling a visually impaired person that its a sin to wear glasses...), so I figured that it would be a pointless struggle to defend my GID or my sexuality with them.

In Jesus's time, people believed that lepers were that way because they were sinful and/or had displeased God.  What they said to you above smacks of the same thinking.  I can't help suspecting that bigotry and intolerance is also biological and can't be helped. 

A psychologist once told me that in three generations we could have a peaceful society without war and conflict and with basic dignity and respect shown by all to all -- if we just sterilize everyone under 125 IQ...  He added that of course it would never happen.

And the shocker is that we in the T-community are generally of high IQ (otherwise we'd be a lot less likely to figure out what's wrong with us and the steps we need to take to correct it,) yet we're willingly taking ourselves out of the pool of active breeders.

Chandra, do what Cindi says.  She's a Son of Perdition -- she KNOWS what she's talking about.  I watched my sister get into the LDS and, after about 20 years, finally extricate herself from it.  She still gets occasional visits by well-dressed couples, the wife carrying still-warm baked goods, from time to time...  Politely say 'Thank you, no...' and get on with YOUR life.

Karen
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Keira


There's plenty of jerks with IQ's above, they're even worse than lower IQ jerks because they are so intelligent, they can be very dangerous.

I think you'd need to screen for EQ (emotional quotient) rather than IQ; the problem is that there is not easy way to do so since compassion and empathy is better measured through acts than by asking the question to someone.


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Chandra21

Quote from: RebeccaFog on June 03, 2007, 03:08:45 PM
Hi Chandra,

   I'm happy to see you've made a decision. I remember your other thread about "Religion and Transexuality, Why must they contradict?" and it turned out to be a good one that had gotten people involved.
  I have to admit, I thought you were just sounding out your doubts there. I figured you'd spend years going over whether or not to leave the church. I understand that it can be difficult.

  As you said, you still have your bible. You also have an opportunity to find a church that fits you, if that's what you want to do. Leaving a church or denomination does not mean you are leaving God, so I know that God will always be with you.

Love,

Rebecca

It was indeed a difficult choice actually, one that took me almost a month of reflecting over the words of the bible and seeking deep within my heart and soul. If the church was true, leaving it would have had a negative impact on my soul... and if it was not leaving it would mean leaving my extended family within. After finding out that the church was a complete hoax the hard part was actually saying to myself "I'm going to leave everyone I know in the church behind." After realizing that they would not accept me for who a truly was, however, I knew I didn't want to have anything to do with them. I love the Mormons... I care for them with all my heart... but I know that love probably wouldn't be mutual if they found out what i've been hiding from them.

Quote from: Jillieann on June 03, 2007, 03:39:41 PM
Hello Chandra,
QuoteI have the bible and my testimony of it is stronger than ever! Its the only book I need to know Christ, my Lord and my savior, who will loves me eternally no matter what I do even if man will hate me or persicute for it, who will forgive me for all sins, and who will let me live in heaven with him for one simple thing: Believing in him. God is truly a wonderful being and I can't believe it took me so long to find him
Yes, faith is a relationship with God not a religious set of rules. No church is "the church" it just a group of people practicing what they believe God wants them to do.
QuoteYou also have an opportunity to find a church that fits you, if that's what you want to do. Leaving a church or denomination does not mean you are leaving God, so I know that God will always be with you.
Find a church where the people truly loves as Jesus did and you have found a group of people that will encourage you to be all that God wants you to be. May so called churches putting you in a straight jacket so to speak by telling you that you can do this and can't do that these are rules taught by men and not by God.
I'm happy for you.
Rejoice in the Lord,
Jillieann



Yes, it says in the bible its self that we are saved by the grace of God, through faith and not by works... so I am not going to trust a church anymore that tries to claim that it is the true church, and that I am only saved by following a ridiculous amount of commandments... and that I cannot be myself. Thats not to say I don't think this is an excuse not to show works... but I think it would be natural for a person to follow the example of Jesus, if they had faith in him, so forcing it upon people seams a little theocratic. I do want to find a church, one where Jesus is the word... and not a pastor or bishop or false prophet. I love church very much but, like you said, if the church member does not love unconditionally, as Jesus did, I do not feel I could be in such a group. So, the search for a new church begins for me, though I'm quite satisfied with having a personal one on one relationship with Jesus, in my own home until I do find the right church. ^_^
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RebeccaFog

Quote from: Karen on June 03, 2007, 04:20:55 PM
In Jesus's time, people believed that lepers were that way because they were sinful and/or had displeased God.  What they said to you above smacks of the same thinking.  I can't help suspecting that bigotry and intolerance is also biological and can't be helped. 

A psychologist once told me that in three generations we could have a peaceful society without war and conflict and with basic dignity and respect shown by all to all -- if we just sterilize everyone under 125 IQ...  He added that of course it would never happen.

And the shocker is that we in the T-community are generally of high IQ (otherwise we'd be a lot less likely to figure out what's wrong with us and the steps we need to take to correct it,) yet we're willingly taking ourselves out of the pool of active breeders.

Karen

  Hi Karen,

   You don't believe that do you? It's a terrible thing for a psychologist to say.
    My SO is learning disabled and many of her family members probably match the under 125 IQ criteria, but they're beautiful people who are accepting of everyone.
    Most of the people who are in positions to start wars and ruin the world have high IQs. Not all of them, though. I think Saddam had an IQ of 20. I mean, does this psychologist know for a fact that Stalin, Edi Amin, charles Manson, Jim Jones, jerry falwell, Henry Kissenger, anita bryant, hitler, Ted Bundy, Henry Ford, Mel Gibson, and jesse helms all had or have IQs under 125? (this list is meant to cover idiots who have contributed to the ruin of the human race in general) * see note.

    I'm thinking there are other factors beyond IQ that contribute to peoples' ugly souls.

   I know that you weren't advocating for sterilizing people. I just want to be certain that nobody thinks ill of people who may not be IQ blessed. I find that everyone has something to contribute for the good of society.


Love,

Rebecca


*   I have believed that Mel Gibson is a menace to society since the release of "The Patriot".  That movie was so bad that I wanted to go back in time and fight for the British.
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gothique11

Many people in my family are Mormon (LDS).

My mom was born into the church, although she became inactive. When I was 9, my mom finally gave into pressure from her father, my grandpa, to baptize me and send me to church. Other family members, of course, encouraged it as well.

Growing up in a small town, a lot of people were Mormon. I grew up okay, I guess, although I had always had questions, particuarly about my gender. An on-going issue since I was quite young, six or so when I mentioned it to my mom. She was told to push me into doing male things and finding male role models, but it didn't do much to make me less effeminate.

When I graduated and left home, I began to question more, and of course the bishop brought me in and pretty much told me the gender stuff would go away and that I should go on a mission -- "It would make you a man," he said.

My family, as usual, pushed me to go on a mission. I went to Las Vegas. I hated it.

During my mission I was sent to a psychiatrist and underwent church counseling for my "gender issues" as well as my lack of faith in the church. Basically, it was like taking, "How to be a man, 101."

I was given a cocktail of pills, which totaled 32 pills a day.

I tried to do all kinds of things to go home -- including running away twice, before being caught eventually and put on more pills and watched more carefully.

My mission president, meanwhile, was busy sexually abusing missionaries -- including trying it on me a few times. "They won't believe you if you said anything," he'd say, "you're the crazy one and on so many pills you're helpless."

it's strange that so many people on that mission were medicated to cover up the abuse that went on -- families wouldn't believe the abuse, the church wouldn't allow it, but it happened for years. My family still doesn't believe in me.

The good thing was that a year in the mission president left and a new one came in. It wasn't his time to leave, but the church was in trouble and was quickly trying to cover up. After abusing so many people, someone's family finally listened and acted. Apparently, in this case, he showed a group of women missionaries x-rated videos in an attempted to show them "what they were missing by being on a mission." The cover up went like this: every single missionary got to go to the movies. The church rented out part of a major Vegas hotel and we used there theater. We watched a PG movie. This doesn't happen normally on missions. Why did it happen? So that if anyone asked about the movie, all of the missionaries would reply, "yeah, we saw it." Yay public relations and cover ups. (As far as I know, the mission president was never charged. All of the women missionaries were sent home or to other missions).

As for my part (yes, I took advantage of the situation), I contacted another psychiatrist in Vegas, who was appalled with what kind of treatment I was getting. He was surprised that I mentioned the church psychiatrists -- I found out that the church doc wasn't legally allowed to practice and had two wrongful death fillings. So the church, essentially, was hiring a doctor with out a license to practice.

Shortly after, investigators were hanging around asking missionaries for information. They didn't get to me because I was sent home pretty quickly. I remember that they made me sign a bunch of papers, along with reading a letter from the prophet that should anyone ask me "strange questions" about what went on my mission that it was my duty not to say anything.

I came home in a crumpled mess. It took me years to recover. I no longer take a cocktail of endless pills (I was off them pretty quickly). Of course the pills didn't make me more faithful or less transsexual as they church hoped.

Well, let me strike one thing out -- most of my family didn't believe me, except my mom. It was then I found out that she was raped by the bishop when she was 14. No one believed her then. No one believed the other women who were raped by him. He's still in the church, and still has a high position.

So, anyway, that's my experience with the church. I haven't gone back since I got back home to Canada. And for that, I'm glad. And after years of recovering from the traumatic experiences I had, I'm finally the woman I was always meant to be.

My family doesn't talk to me. There was a time that they made a half-effort, but when I told them that was going ahead with the transition I became dead in there eyes. Including my brother's eyes, he refuses to acknowledge that I exist any more.

I can't help to think that it's the most ironic thing ever; the church proclaiming, "Families together forever," yet it is so far from that.

Life after church as been great for me -- despite my family's constant reminders that I'd live a horrible life because I left  -- and went a head with the transition. I am so much happier now, and a better person as well.

I keep the church stuff behind me now a days. I talk about it sometimes, but it can be painful to talk about. I mostly focus on where I'm going now rather than where I've been. I have a full life ahead of me -- I've become a beautiful woman with a lot of potential.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble.  :P


**Edit / add on**

I should mention, that I didn't leave the church soley because of the abuse -- although, ironically, it's the mission and abuse the pushed me enough to leave. I know the church doctrines inside and out; I used to be one of those know-it-alls in the church. Strangely enough, the more I knew the more things became absurd and it came to the point that I could no longer believe in it. Before the mission, there was enough emotional and social connection to the church that the church thought I could have been saved -- ie, believe in the church and give up on the idea that I was a woman. I think, however, even without the abuse I would have left, simply because I couldn't put off knowing that I was a woman inside and that I should do something about it.

I once had a plan that once I left home I'd start transitioning. I was 16 then. The church talked to me one that plan got out, and then I promptly tried to kill myself after what they said. I knew then it would be a long journey.

I'm glad that I'm doing it now. Sometimes I hate that so many years were taken away from me -- such a big chunk of my life torn apart by what happened, and the years to recover -- just to function normally. I'm still affected, and probably will always be.

But now, things are going great and I'm doing what I need to do for myself. It's the best thing I've ever done for myself. And in a weird way, all the fighting and standing up for myself that I had to go through for my entire life (the church didn't only abuse me, I lived in a very abusive home as well) -- all of that has only made me stronger. Things only look better form here on in.
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RebeccaFog

Hi Gothique,

   I'm sorry to hear about what you've had to go through. I'm especially sorry to hear about your mother's abuse. It made me sick when I read that.

   You're right about those experiences making you strong. I believe that one of the gifts that our gender variance provides us is a soul that is somehow very capable at surviving our terrible pasts.


Love,

Rebecca.
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cindianna_jones

Welcome to the ex-mormon club Gothique... and the returned ->-bleeped-<- missionary club too!

Being a tran and out in the Mormon Church is the most devastating experience that I can imagine.

I'm glad that you were able to escape with some sense of sanity.

Cindi
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gothique11

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