Beliefs…Can Bring Comfort Or Despair .

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,


Different religions, spiritual and or atheist belief systems have different outlooks when it comes to death...

Most of those with religious or spiritual beliefs tend to agree that if a person's behaviour in this life is somewhat unwholesome then when they die they'll end up reaping what they had sown or in some cases if they 'ask' for forgiveness/repent to a god, then they'll toddle off to one form of heaven or other...

Some believe where one ends up will be permanent, whilst others believe it's just temporary ie, they will work off their bad debt then move on to a better place...

Many Atheists believe when your dead your dead ! Consciousness is snuffed out and recycling of the body starts to occur-end of story...

There's a lot more to it than what I've mentioned above, but you get the gist of how we 'all' tend to see things...

Another example: A Moslem has a Christian friend who dies, according to other Christians this person's soul [if one believes in a soul ] will go to the Christian heaven, but according to the Moslem friend they will go where 'all' the non Muslims go...And visa versa if the Moslem friend dies etc, etc...

What I'm getting at is, when another person dies, they will end up going to a place according to what other people 'believe'  and nobody can prove anything different to counter their belief...

When people whom I know die, they[according to my belief] will go where I 'believe' they will go and no place different[In this case you're lucky because I believe in rebirth so wherever you end up, it won't be permanent –unless it is Nirvana  ]...And when I die [according to their belief] I will go where they 'believe I will go...

Do you see how confusing and ridiculous our beliefs can be ? 

Beliefs can be a cold comfort for some...

As some of you already know I go with the flow of the Buddha's teachings, that is...

"I'm an Atheist in that I don't recognise an absolute personal deity...But I'm not philosophically atheistic because I don't deny Ultimate Reality!"

( I borrowed the above quote from somewhere, possibly from some literature on Zen, but it sums up where my mind's at ! )

Comment if you feel the urge to, or just ponder your personal beliefs...Either way such is life after death !

Metta Zenda

[peky]

and then there is the Buddhists who believe when you die you go to another "plane" where you life'sed deeds are reviewed, and if you have not learn enough then you come back to be reincarnated..cycle goes on until one day you have learn all there is to be learn and your reach Nirvana...one with the universe...one with G-d


We Jews believe that G-d gives a divine Soul to every human. When a human dies the Soul, unscathed by the actions of the human (good or bad) goes back to G-d. We also believe that every human has an spirit, and  that when we die the spirit goes to the "Sheol" where we wait for the resurrection at the end of times. The Sheol is poorly defined, and we do not know what is the fate for the spirits of bad people.

It is important to know that in Judaism there is no "sin" as defined by Christianity, we prefer to refer to our failures as "missing the mark," or "missing an opportunity."

[Misato]

All I know for sure is I existed once.  That of course being right now.  So, what's to keep me from existing again?  Ergo,  I think I believe in reincarnation.

I hope I do better in high school next time. 

[Anna++]

For the longest time my plan was to get through life the best I could as a guy, then reincarnate as a girl and finally have peace of mind.  Then I became an atheist and eventually decided that relying on reincarnation isn't as reliable as transitioning now.

ALSO!  I'm reminded of a joke:

Dr. Schambaugh, of the University of Oklahoma School of Chemical Engineering, Final Exam question for May of 1997. Dr. Schambaugh is known for asking questions such as, "why do airplanes fly?" on his final exams. His one and only final exam question in May 1997 for his Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer II class was: "Is hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with proof."

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

    "First, We postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave.

    Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, then you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and souls go to hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.

    Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant. Two options exist:

        If hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose.
        If hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over.

    So which is it? If we accept the quote given to me by Theresa Manyan during Freshman year, "that it will be a cold night in hell before I sleep with you" and take into account the fact that I still have NOT succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then Option 2 cannot be true...Thus, hell is exothermic."

The student, Tim Graham, got the only A.

[Anatta]

For the longest time my plan was to get through life the best I could as a guy, then reincarnate as a girl and finally have peace of mind.  Then I became an atheist and eventually decided that relying on reincarnation isn't as reliable as transitioning now.

ALSO!  I'm reminded of a joke:

Kia Ora Anna,

Yes that joke's quite funny, it also reminds me of what a local Kiwi politician had to say regarding same sex marriage..It was one of the funniest  but serious speeches I've heard in a long while...The speech went viral 



Metta Zenda

[Anatta]

and then there is the Buddhists who believe when you die you go to another "plane" where you life'sed deeds are reviewed, and if you have not learn enough then you come back to be reincarnated..cycle goes on until one day you have learn all there is to be learn and your reach Nirvana...one with the universe...one with G-d


We Jews believe that G-d gives a divine Soul to every human. When a human dies the Soul, unscathed by the actions of the human (good or bad) goes back to G-d. We also believe that every human has an spirit, and  that when we die the spirit goes to the "Sheol" where we wait for the resurrection at the end of times. The Sheol is poorly defined, and we do not know what is the fate for the spirits of bad people.

It is important to know that in Judaism there is no "sin" as defined by Christianity, we prefer to refer to our failures as "missing the mark," or "missing an opportunity."

Kia Ora Peky,

I think what you are referring to when you say another "plane"...You meant either one of the six realms...
According to ones karma one will end up in one of these 'transit lounge' realms:  and according to Buddhism they are all  dukkha,(Unsatisfactory)  meaning they are temporary and imperfect and are all just a 'psychological state' or a situation one might find themselves living in due to their past karma.

1.   Devas (gods)
2.   Asuras (titans or demons)
3.   Pretas (hungry ghosts)
4.   Narakas (hell beings)
5.   Tiryakas (animals)
6.   Manushyas (humans)

Believe it....Or not ! 

BTW there is nobody (no god or gods) there to do any 'reviewing'...

Metta Zenda

[Nero]

Most of those with religious or spiritual beliefs tend to agree that if a person's behaviour in this life is somewhat unwholesome then when they die they'll end up reaping what they had sown or in some cases if they 'ask' for forgiveness/repent to a god, then they'll toddle off to one form of heaven or other...

I believe this - but that the 'reaping what they sow' happens on earth. I think most the major religions got it right, except that heaven and hell are states on earth. And more mental than anything else. There's no place more unsafe and terrible than my own mind.

Another example: A Moslem has a Christian friend who dies, according to other Christians this person's soul [if one believes in a soul ] will go to the Christian heaven, but according to the Moslem friend they will go where 'all' the non Muslims go...And visa versa if the Moslem friend dies etc, etc...

When I was an indoctrinated kid, I used to worry about certain loved ones because I was taught if they didn't say 'the magic words' they'd burn in fire. Then you feel a responsibility to say the right things and save them from this. A torturous way to think.

As for myself, I don't believe we actually cease to exist, as energy cannot be destroyed. What form we take and whether it's still consciously individualized, I don't know.

[BlonT]

Believe is as its name implies,you believe or not.And whe are spiritual people in basic.The power off the mind can do miracles ,and is sooting.
To bad most is turned in religions,and altered to suit a group.
So simply said i respect what YOU believe and feel,but find you a moron if you need a other to tell you what you must believe !

[Misato]

I like this:

When I was an indoctrinated kid, I used to worry about certain loved ones because I was taught if they didn't say 'the magic words' they'd burn in fire. Then you feel a responsibility to say the right things and save them from this. A torturous way to think.

Got me thinking of Geroge Carlin second commandment when he squeezed the 10 commandments down.  "Keep thy religion to thyself."

I don't talk about my philosophy very often.  I do find it kind of amusing my belief in reincarnation was informed by a twist on mathematical induction!  My Discrete Math Professor put it once, "If one domino falls, the rest have to" so I just applied that to "I'm alive now!"

The comfort I get from my belief is it is a philosophy and it can change.  It's also only mine so if I'm wrong I'll be the only one to pay any consequences if there are any.  But that seems silly to me cause I think I'm a good person.  And for me I'm in rare company too as I'm seeing articles that the new Pope is advocating that even atheists can get into heaven if they're good!  Now this guy holds positions I very much disagree with but, I also expect little from popes.  So I cannot help but like the guy so far!

[Ms. OBrien CVT]

As energy can not be destroyed just changed, that fits right in with my belief in reincarnation.  No heaven no hell, just change.

[Anatta]

Kia Ora and thanks for your responses,

"There's no place more unsafe and terrible than my own mind.
As for myself, I don't believe we actually cease to exist, as energy cannot be destroyed. What form we take and whether it's still consciously individualized, I don't know."
@NSFA

"The power off the mind can do miracles ,and is sooting."
@ BlonT

Kia ora,

Ah the magic of the mind never ceases to amaze...

"If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place !"

There's an interesting concept in Zen (Well some Zen masters teach it...well to be more precise Zen Master Dennis Genpo Merzel-I just picked up a copy of his book in the local Red Cross  secondhand shop) which is called Big Mind ` Big Heart...He goes on about the different minds we use in everyday life and especially the "seeking & grasping Minds"
You might like to check this out


"the new Pope is advocating that even atheists can get into heaven if they're good!  Now this guy holds positions I very much disagree with but, I also expect little from popes.  So I cannot help but like the guy so far!"

@Misato

Kia Ora
Don't you find it a little strange that after a couple of thousand years the Pope/Vatican now decides it's ok for 'good' atheists to go to the "Catholic" heaven...If you think about it, most people who call themselves atheists really don't give a toss what the Pope thinks, but I guess for him to say this does open the door to more (dare I say 'rational') dialogue ...


"As energy can not be destroyed just changed, that fits right in with my belief in reincarnation.  No heaven no hell, just change".

@Ms. OBrien

Kia Ora,
Most scientists tend to agree we are just made up of  bundles of vibrating energy & matter, that some  Buddhists call Kalapas "In Theravada Buddhist phenomenology, Kalapas are defined as the smallest units of physical matter. tiny units of materiality,  Kalapas are understood by some Therevada thinkers as actual subatomic particles and the smallest units of materiality "

These are brought/held together by cause condition & effect="Karma"=action & reaction= personal & cosmos...

When I think of rebirth (Which is different to reincarnation) I think of the continuous recycling of matter & energy ie earth, water, fire, air...

Metta Zenda

[Misato]

To be clear, I've never been catholic.  Just what the pope is up to is such pervasive news in the US.  It's refreshing to hear some more welcoming rhetoric from one.

[StellaB]

While my beliefs are inspired by Buddhism and esotericism I've been part of the Theravada throughout my entire adult life..

I'm just as convinced that reincarnation and karma exist as I am that a tree exists or a house, or a mountain.

I believe that we exist permanently and eternally in a metaphysical realm which permeates the entire Universe and that each of us in feeling incomplete in our souls crave attachments to that whatever makes us feel complete and whole.

My view of life or living existence is pretty much the same as what a cigarette is to a smoker. We crave attachment as much as a smoker craves nicotine and as a smoker reaches for a cigarette we seek out and take possession of an embryo which we adopt as our bodies through which we can experience life and develop ourselves within our souls.

As any smoker will tell you there is some variation as to how long a cigarette is smoked and how long is the length of the butt which is discarded. A smoker can become distracted and drop the cigarette, just as a smoker can become distracted and let the cigarette burn out, without smoking it and getting any nicotine. Also something can knock the cigarette out of the hand of the smoker, something can cause the cigarette to go out, or the smoker can smoke a few puffs and then stub the cigarette out.

This is pretty much the same as what can happen in life.

You can only smoke a cigarette for a short period of time even if you smoke all of it.

The same can be said of life.

But if we exist eternally, then so does everyone else, and so too do our relationships. Imagine that you are smoking a cigarette on the balcony of an apartment at a party where everyone you ever knew in life is attending. Now imagine that the party is attended by everyone and anyone you ever interacted with in all of your previous lives up to the present.

This is how I see the spiritual realm.

Nirvana to me isn't anything perfect - for perfection to me is an illusion, a state of non-existence, as is heaven and hell as is commonly presented. You cannot exist in a permanent unchanging state.

Nirvana to me is complete freedom and power, where you are aware of your entire existence and have no desire for attachments, cravings or suffering.
.
You can only ever exist in one state, and that one state is reality, that what you can perceive. That state is here and now.

Your beliefs are based on your ability to conceive, and that is what motivates you to develop and evolve.

Both truth and illusion are relative to perception, which is individual wherever it is abstract.

Therefore all beliefs are valid.

[Anatta]

To be clear, I've never been catholic.  Just what the pope is up to is such pervasive news in the US.  It's refreshing to hear some more welcoming rhetoric from one.

Kia Ora Misato,

Yes that's true...Perhaps miracles do happen after all 
i
Metta Zenda

[Anatta]

While my beliefs are inspired by Buddhism and esotericism I've been part of the Theravada throughout my entire adult life..

I'm just as convinced that reincarnation and karma exist as I am that a tree exists or a house, or a mountain.

I believe that we exist permanently and eternally in a metaphysical realm which permeates the entire Universe and that each of us in feeling incomplete in our souls crave attachments to that whatever makes us feel complete and whole.

My view of life or living existence is pretty much the same as what a cigarette is to a smoker. We crave attachment as much as a smoker craves nicotine and as a smoker reaches for a cigarette we seek out and take possession of an embryo which we adopt as our bodies through which we can experience life and develop ourselves within our souls.

As any smoker will tell you there is some variation as to how long a cigarette is smoked and how long is the length of the butt which is discarded. A smoker can become distracted and drop the cigarette, just as a smoker can become distracted and let the cigarette burn out, without smoking it and getting any nicotine. Also something can knock the cigarette out of the hand of the smoker, something can cause the cigarette to go out, or the smoker can smoke a few puffs and then stub the cigarette out.

This is pretty much the same as what can happen in life.

You can only smoke a cigarette for a short period of time even if you smoke all of it.

The same can be said of life.

But if we exist eternally, then so does everyone else, and so too do our relationships. Imagine that you are smoking a cigarette on the balcony of an apartment at a party where everyone you ever knew in life is attending. Now imagine that the party is attended by everyone and anyone you ever interacted with in all of your previous lives up to the present.

This is how I see the spiritual realm.

Nirvana to me isn't anything perfect - for perfection to me is an illusion, a state of non-existence, as is heaven and hell as is commonly presented. You cannot exist in a permanent unchanging state.

Nirvana to me is complete freedom and power, where you are aware of your entire existence and have no desire for attachments, cravings or suffering.
.
You can only ever exist in one state, and that one state is reality, that what you can perceive. That state is here and now.

Your beliefs are based on your ability to conceive, and that is what motivates you to develop and evolve.

Both truth and illusion are relative to perception, which is individual wherever it is abstract.

Therefore all beliefs are valid.

Kia Ora Stella,

That's an interesting take on things...I hope these beliefs bring you comfort...

Metta Zenda

[Kia]

I've always enjoyed the Vodoun depiction of guédé spirits (the spirits of the dead and gone) as an irreverent carnival. Just all the dead folks havin a blast drinking, smoking, making bad jokes and having a whole lotta fun. They're dead so they no longer have all that suffering that is the human condition.

But personally I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of oblivion; body, self, mind, all the bits of my totality torn asunder and recycled into the creative nothing never to be put together in the same way again.

[Anatta]

But personally I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of oblivion; body, self, mind, all the bits of my totality torn asunder and recycled into the creative nothing never to be put together in the same way again.

Kia Ora Kia,

Hail to the great recycler ! When you're dead, may you rest in piece/s

Metta Zenda

[peky]

As energy can not be destroyed just changed, that fits right in with my belief in reincarnation.  No heaven no hell, just change.

but that is only 4% of the Universe.....who knows what the rest of the Universe has in store for you 

[peky]

Kia Ora Peky,

I think what you are referring to when you say another "plane"...You meant either one of the six realms...
According to ones karma one will end up in one of these 'transit lounge' realms:  and according to Buddhism they are all  dukkha,(Unsatisfactory)  meaning they are temporary and imperfect and are all just a 'psychological state' or a situation one might find themselves living in due to their past karma.

1.   Devas (gods)
2.   Asuras (titans or demons)
3.   Pretas (hungry ghosts)
4.   Narakas (hell beings)
5.   Tiryakas (animals)
6.   Manushyas (humans)

Believe it....Or not ! 

BTW there is nobody (no god or gods) there to do any 'reviewing'...

Metta Zenda

Just plain "astral planes," no need to invoque titans, demons, or Gods...

[Jess42]

Have you ever noticed, at funerals, the deceaced is always pretty much going to heaven even though the person may have been the lousiest parent, stolen countless things, treated other people badly and so on?

What happens and what reality we have after death can only be proven arfter a person dies. Beliefs may be a safety mechanism of the mind to allow us to accept death and allow the ego to accept that it may survive eternally. Many religions and belief systems accept that you will reap what you sow either by differing planes of punishment and reward. Many others believe in the Spirit or Soul manifesting in a physical body over and over again until lessons are learned. I tend to believe this way but not as much on a relious point of view.

I tend to believe in reincarnation because of stuff I have read and experienced with past life regressions. The scientific hierarchy disclaims it because you can always lead a patient under hypnosis to certain conclusions. The religious hierarchy won't acknowledge it because it goes against common perceptions that churches have held for mellinia. To me though, it explains everything form hauntings to being transgendered and to stillborn babies that never had a chance at life and being born with a defective body with ailments such as mental retardation and so on. Or just why we plain do some of the things we do. Being 100% sure, I can't say. I can only go with what I feel is the truth in the dynamics of human Spirituality and what feels right for me. Others I can't even begin to comment on but I do hold their beliefs in high regard to what they may feel is right or right for them.

The only thing that I know for sure is that each and everyone of us will eventually have our answers because death is the one thing in life that is a constant variable.