How to find employment while trans?

[Joanna Dark]

So I have a job but it's not a very good one. I would need like eight more of them to get to my former salary level. granted, i had a great job, well career, before. I'm trying to get another job but even if I manage to score an interview, I have a passing problem, i.e. it will be very hard for me to pass as a guy. I know other forum members have said you can pass as a man indefinitely but this does not seem like it is the case for me. I don't even try to pass when I go out and everyone ma'ams me.

So I am basically full-time and have started wearing full makeup and dressing a lot more girly, cause, well, cause I like it. I could apply for work like this and could get a job as a waitress or hostess or housekeeper or something but unless it's under the table I will have to show ID and BAM! I am outed. Yet, if I butch it up and try to apply as a man they will think I'm either a woman dressing as a man or the most feminine guy in the world.

I don't know what to do and I can't go one like this indefinitely as I need a better income. Technically, I could get a sugar daddy as guys apparently really like me for some strange reason. Don't ask me why. It's not my imagination either I hear guys saying "Check out her a**." Or "Baby aren't you in to black dudes I'll show you a good time." And if the guy was right I wouldn't mind not being independent.

I already have short hair so it's not the hair that makes me look femme it's my face structure. Should I just tell employers I am trans? Are there specific jobs I should look for? How have other trans women who presented female approached the job market and was there anything you did that worked? It just seems like a lot of people here are already really established or are really young. I'm in between, not established and kinda young but not so young I don't have a past career.

I was thinking of going to the the Gayborhood and just walking in and applying at various places. Or maybe I could do drag but I think that is out as I pass. (I did not think I would past this fast and I can assure you it comes with a set of problems). I know people are probably thinking "what a total brat" because I'm complaining that I pass to well and too fast and I know others struggle with it and I feel really bad about that but this is still a really serious problem as I need money.

Any help, advice, anecdotes, commiseration, or any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated! Thank you so much. xoxoxo

[Rachel85]

Joanna!
Sure I feel envy towards you! hahaha (It is a healthy envy though).

Jokes. That's really hard. I have had to slow my transition down specifically because of work because I was/am worried about the same thing. I over think things, often to the point of stagnation, then eventually I will just run out and jump into the next level, rinse and repeat.
I'm sorry I can't offer any better advice but there is an organisation that operates in Brisbane Australia that has a "re-training" focus, I'm not sure what exactly they recommend or teach but if you were to email them I'm sure they'd be happy to talk to you. ATSAQ is the organisation (http://www.atsaq.com/), I've only ever spoken with Gina but Chrissy is lovely too I hear. Very helpful people!
There are other groups out there too that have similar programs, another Australian site is the gendercentre.org.au but the link to that has been dead on their website for a while.
I've also considered winning the lottery, but so far that hasn't worked, I wouldn't recommend it.
Good luck!

Cynths

[Christine167]

What did you do before and what are your skills?
Your potential employer will not likely have "are you trans? Because we don't hire trans" at the top of his list for the Q&A. So don't worry so much about that during the interview. Focus on selling your skills and motivation.

[Theo]

What did you do before and what are your skills?
Your potential employer will not likely have "are you trans? Because we don't hire trans" at the top of his list for the Q&A. So don't worry so much about that during the interview. Focus on selling your skills and motivation.

Seconding this. Also take a look at the corporate equality index up on HRC (http://www.hrc.org/corporate-equality-index/). Pretty much any company that has 100 points on that list should be ignoring the trans aspect entirely, as they have shown that they support and have policies in place for transitioning on the job etc.

[Joanna Dark]

What did you do before and what are your skills?
Your potential employer will not likely have "are you trans? Because we don't hire trans" at the top of his list for the Q&A. So don't worry so much about that during the interview. Focus on selling your skills and motivation.

I graduated college in 2004 at Temple University's School of Communication and Theatre at the Top of my Class each year. I was the only MAAB person to ever win that award, not to mention win it four years in a row. I always felt like they would figure me out since no guy ever does that good for some reason, at least in that school. I'm a magazine editor and spent most of my career as a women's magazine editor with a focus on parenting and fashion. Don't ask me how I guess I'm just lucky since the job was meant for a female. I can design web sites, write, edit, manage an office, and proofread. So I have some skills and a stellar resume but as a man and the economy is hard enough as it is and there are a lot of journalists why hire a trans woman when you can hire someone else? I don't have internal transphobia I just feel like that's what people will think.

I hope I'm wrong I just don't know what to do. I mean even if I butch it up an employer will be able to tell. I have a woman's face and body not to mention the bewbies. And yes I love all this and it's how I want to live the rest of my life but I am just worried what life? I feel like I have a Sophie's Choice: keep transitioning and love myself and be happy but potentially be permanently destitute or detransition and be unhappy but be more employable though I'd be selling my soul and it took so much time to get here. I mean I have zero doubts and the thought of detransition makes me sick but I'm scared I have no future. Really scared.

Seconding this. Also take a look at the corporate equality index up on HRC (http://www.hrc.org/corporate-equality-index/). Pretty much any company that has 100 points on that list should be ignoring the trans aspect entirely, as they have shown that they support and have policies in place for transitioning on the job etc.

Thanks I will have to take a look at that.

[Misato]

Being trans for me really didn't change anything except it allowed me to be me.  The only time I faced discrimination, I think, is when I made being trans a problem by saying things like, "I want to work somewhere that will accept me."  I really don't think the few employers I said that to liked that.  I also didn't present as myself which I think exacerbated the issue.

My current job, while the medical coverage is out-of-pocket expensive if you're not a straight male, did hire me.  I went in for my interview dressed professionally as any woman would and presented myself in a knowledgeable manner in my field.  I mentioned my trans based research but as a point of accomplishment and a demonstration of how I want to help people.  In the end, I think being trans HELPED me get my job.

It also kept me from getting fired at my last.  I was so angry as a guy, I was starting to become a problem for clients.

The set of job interviews I'm on now started with them reaching out to me via an e-mail address from a 2008 interview I had.   So I had to start off with, "Great!  I'd love to talk to you about a position!  Only it's not [REDACTED] anymore.  It's Paige!" and gave them my new e-mail address.  Recruiter switched over without comment.  Best relationship with a recruiter I ever had too.  Even got a gift basket.  Anyway, I had one interview a week ago Friday and two more this coming Tuesday and Wednesday for four possible positions.  My point: being trans hasn't hurt my career prospects at all now that I don't let it get me down or drip with fear over being trans.  If I don't get a new job out of all this, I'm sure it won't have anything to do with being trans.  In fact I'm soooooooooo close at landing my dream job right now!

Joanna, from the field I can say if your JavaScript and CSS is current you're going to be fine on the web.  Just be yourself and knowledgeable in the interviews.   Be positive.  Encourage your interviewers to think, "I want to be around this person for 40 hours a week.  She seems cool and knowledgeable."  <-- This is also why they would hire you over anyone else.  I'm routinely finding that being trans just isn't a issue unless I made it one by showing off some of the extra baggage I used to have.

I know my experience is anecdotal, and I know the statistics for trans people landing jobs, but I do believe the stats don't have so much to do with the core of being trans but instead their reason for being is the baggage like that I used to let show.  So, being positive and celebrating yourself is certainly worth a try.

Best of luck to you! Go get em'!

[Joanna Dark]

Thanks so much Paige! That is really inspiring and gives me a lot of hope! I mean I worked really hard to become successful and it just seems unfair that I may have to start over and that's not so easy at age 31. Maybe I am worrying over nothing. I did have an awesome streak of great luck Wednesday. I met this guy and we hit it off immediately and I just felt so comfortable around him and it was like nothing I have ever felt. And he told me he felt the same way and it was like fate that we met. And I know it wasn't about sex since we didn't have sex we just stayed up all night and talked and then I got the most restful sleep I have ever gotten in someone else's place. I know it was a risk staying out a guy's house but it worked out and we have been texting. I actually really miss him. Plus he's hot. It just seems to good to be true but I think it is true. If not, I'll be okay. Tangent over. All I am saying is you are right that maybe I just need to not sell myself short and be my usual sweet self and everything will be okay in time.

[big kim]

Try something that's unpopular!I worked as a bus driver for 10 years if you can stand shift work,early starts and late finishes I enjoyed the work most of the time

[Alainaluvsu]

I'm not gonna lie to you, I've found it extremely hard to find a job. It's a rough environment to try to find a job anyways, because you're battling 200 applications for one spot. Add on top to the pile that if you're stealth, it's hard to find references that will give you a good name if you haven't had a job as your new name yet, and with employers doing background checks, your old name could come up, if you haven't changed your gender marker they can see that.

It's just a nasty environment for anybody looking for work atm, I read somewhere it takes an average of 6 months to get a job for the average out of work person right now. Tack along the fact that people out there may be scared to put you in front of customers SIMPLY BECAUSE the background check shows your old name, or your ID shows M when you're presenting female... yeah, it sucks!

[Donna Elvira]

Hi
Having the good fortune to be employed in a job I really like, but having come very close to total disaster last Autumn, I fully understand the issue around Sophie's choice ie. transition and become destitute or don't transition and continue living a lie that becomes more and more difficult to cope with.

My own experience, for what its worth,  is that it is far easier to get employment in back-office jobs than in jobs where you are directly interfacing with customers. Unless you pass so well as to be indistinguishable from a cis-women, many employers, no matter how well they accept you themselves, will still fear negative reactions from customers. I am very much in this position so I am doing everything I can to attenuate these fears by going for the most feminine appearance I can get while still staying natural. In parallel, I am working even harder to insure that everyone sees how much I bring to the job because at the end of the day, if I am doing a good enough job, I really do believe that my transition will not be too big an issue.

However for any sort of sort of technical position eg.  engineering, software development, accounting etc..I agree completely with Misato that you should basically be a non issue and could even be an advantage ie. you could be pleasantly surprised at how many people will actually respect and admire the courage it takes to transition and be one's self.

Since you already seem to pass very well, it should be even less of an issue so I guess your best path forward is to first show how much you can bring to the jobs you are targeting and if your gender status comes up, explain how even that can be an advantage for the position targeted. From what you have said, you should be able to target positions in a wide range of activities from journalism to web design and why not the entertainment industry?

Wishing you all the best.
Donna 
 

[Christine167]

You have a resume that reads like gold dear. I think you just need the confidence to sell yourself well. If you are worried about losing your current job then go a head and apply for new positions and collect some good referrals from those who know you and like you.

[Renee]

I know I was worried for a long time that no one would hire me because I'm trans, but found out otherwise. The big thing is to present yourself well and don't bs them about anything. Currently I work in a company  that has no trans policies and in a state with no protections, but it hasn't been a problem. Management likes me because I do a good job and get along with everyone. They are currently training me to move up to a manager position even, which surprises me, but I guess all things considered, the trans thing has simply fallen by the wayside and not even any sort of consideration in their minds at this point.

[Misato]

My own experience, for what its worth,  is that it is far easier to get employment in back-office jobs than in jobs where you are directly interfacing with customers. Unless you pass so well as to be indistinguishable from a cis-women, many employers, no matter how well they accept you themselves, will still fear negative reactions from customers.

Software Engineering can be client facing too in the areas of requirements gathering, usability testing, and conferences.  Then if you're a consultant, like I was, you get to meet companies as clients. Still, as Donna had insight into, HR did admit to me they were worried about that after I came out but they were also worried about a colleague's many pierceings.  Some 'suits' can be old fashioned.  When I showed for work in professional attire, HR's concern was addressed.

That, by the way, gets to a reccomemdation regarding coming out at work.  If I had it to do all over again I would have tried to meet HR, perhaps boss, out of the office before I went full time so they could have met me as me and seen they didn't have much to worry about.

you could be pleasantly surprised at how many people will actually respect and admire the courage it takes to transition and be one's self.

I get the respect, admire, 'brave' view on my transition quite a bit.  I also think at least one employer really liked being able to have another check in the diversity column.

[Donna Elvira]

That, by the way, gets to a reccomemdation regarding coming out at work.  If I had it to do all over again I would have tried to meet HR, perhaps boss, out of the office before I went full time so they could have met me as me and seen they didn't have much to worry about.

Misato,
Thanks so much. That is a really good suggestion that I will act on myself. I have already come our to my boss and our HR manager and think that such a" RLE" could go a long way towards allaying their fears.
Warm regards.
Donna

P.S. BTW, I am what you would probably refer to as a "suit"  , except that, unless meeting clients, dress code is very relaxed, so much so that day to day, I typically dress very androgynous..

[Tristan]

Yes being trans doesn't seem to change very much in my area. It's more based on your educational background or if your a student they will give you a co op. which is also good

[Misato]

Misato,
P.S. BTW, I am what you would probably refer to as a "suit"  , except that, unless meeting clients, dress code is very relaxed, so much so that day to day, I typically dress very androgynous..

I was just looking for a concise way to get across what I was trying to relay.

[Ltl89]

Joanna,

Have you changed your name yet?  If you haven't, I think for the initial interview you may want to present as male.  They may be very confused during the interview otherwise and that could hurt your chances.  Plus, by presenting male you can show all your past references and qualifications with full confidence.   It's not that you have to detransition, but you may want to first get your foot in the door.  After you're hired, just be yourself like you are doing at your current job.  Once you decide to go full time and leave your old name forever, you can come out inside the work place as others have done.  Many go through their hr department to come out and this has worked successfully. 

Either way, I wish you lots of luck.  I've learned the hard way that good work is hard to come by.  A college education and all my previous awards/honors/distinctions are all just a joke.  Hell, even all my connections have been very unhelpful.  But it's just the way things are at the moment.  Don't let it get you down.

[Michelle S.]

I think you're justifiably overthinking it a bit. I think you should just be honest with any potential employer. Don't try to sneak transitioning into the mix like it's something to be ashamed of. You'd be surprised how many people simply don't care. Plus, what happens if you hide this from your employer and they find out later? I'd rather not get the job than to be fired unexpectedly because my boss is a transphobe. As I understand it, except in states with special protections, we can pretty much be fired simply for being trans. Gender identity isn't protected, ridiculous as that is. I hear Congress ruled in favor of some new protections but I don't think those are enforced or even law yet.

Long story short, I haven't had any issue with my employers. In fact, I'm a freelance event manager and timer for endurance races so I work for several clients on a semi-permanent and off & on basis. Never once has my transition been an issue!

[Joanna Dark]

Joanna,

Have you changed your name yet?  If you haven't, I think for the initial interview you may want to present as male.  They may be very confused during the interview otherwise and that could hurt your chances.  Plus, by presenting male you can show all your past references and qualifications with full confidence. 

I haven't changed my name and prob can't for awhile. It costs a lot of money and I have other issues. My problem isn't that I have some sickening aversion to presenting as male (okay I lied I do), it's that I do go out and present as male and people do not believe me. I have done this several times. With people who know me, it seems like they don't notice much but I was fairly femme to begin with. Also, all things being equal I don't want to go come outon the job I want to be hired as is. And I really don't have a choice. I know people on this board are like "you need FFS to pass" but in the real world where you don't have to be a supermodel to pass, I pass and it's very hard to butch it up. This is my problem.

At my current job, I am a freelance writer and I attend functions and stuff and I have just feminized my name as it is much easier. There are only two options: people think I am a woman or people think I am a trans woman. The only person who thought the latter has a best freind who is trans and I had asome beard shadow going on and he still said he didn't really think I was trans til I told him but the shadow kinda threw him off.

I hope I am not coming off as a biotchy but I don't know what to do and really didn't think I would have this problem. Heck must people say 30 year olds don't change at all and this is like lightening fast and I'm not on a high dose far from it.

IDK. Maybe I'll just meet a sugar daddy men seem to really like me. Jk lol

As I understand it, except in states with special protections, we can pretty much be fired simply for being trans. Gender identity isn't protected, ridiculous as that is.

I'm from Philly transsexuals are a specially protected group and all city employees get free SRS and businesses get all kinds of tax credits for providing coverage for it. I am lucky I live here.

[Joanna Dark]

I think you're justifiably overthinking it a bit. I think you should just be honest with any potential employer. Don't try to sneak transitioning into the mix like it's something to be ashamed of. You'd be surprised how many people simply don't care.

Yeah you're prob right. I should just calm down and let things roll. See even if I butch it up enough it took me so much to get here to this point and I don't want to have to present male half the time and live a double life. Coming out on the job would be hard for me. And I'm worried if I did this I would just end up detransitioning and that would be that. Thanks everyone for all your replies and I am sorry if I got a little defensive at times. It's just I need to do something about my living situation and stuff and need money.