My Mother and Sister's Reaction.

[Adabelle]

She may just be trying to manipulate you into mimicking her behavior, and if possible then she can use that against you to try and convince you or others that you are unstable and unreasonable. Don't let her do this if possible.

If you can be consistent, gentle, and patient with her - while staying true to yourself she may eventually get exhausted. If you see any opportunity to connect with her woman to woman (mother to daughter) I would take those opportunities. Personally, I would move closer to her and seek to connect with her more deeply as it will make it much harder for her to just dismiss you. Don't let her temper tantrums push you away - it's quite possibly just a phase with her and there's a good chance she will one day look back with regret at the things she said. If she hasn't been an abusive mother your whole life, then likely what you are dealing with is a woman who is just desperate, and who is moving through grief and there's a good chance this will pass.

Look for opportunities to connect, ultimately you are still your mother's child - and as a feminine spirit yourself there's a great power and potential in the connection the two of you share. I hope these opportunities present themselves more and more for you. Open your heart to her, but also stay true to yourself. It's a very difficult tension to hold, it was for me.

It's ironic that often when we're at our most vulnerable, and need the most support, is also when those we love also are the most vulnerable and need our support. But if both we, and the ones we love each only stay focused on ourselves as victims through transition, never considering the real difficulty the other faces then progress is much more difficult in my opinion. This is what was difficult for me personally. But I did find that when I gave support to friends and family during my own transition, that I received it back - though sometimes on a delay. I now encourage people to give support and compassion and patience to those they transition with because I see it come back to them more often than not.

I am holding you and your mom in my thoughts and heart.

[Donna Elvira]

Hi LtL,
I am quite amazed at some of the things you are reporting about what has being going on between you and your mother since you came out. It really does amount to abuse. However, since everything you had said before that suggests that your mother was a very kind and loving person,  it makes me wonder what is driving all of this.

Actually, a couple of other things you said also attracted me attention, like you cuddling up against your mother on the sofa for a long hug.

I have a 24 year old son who is also very close to his mother (and to me as it happens) but I can't imagine him for a second cuddling up against his mother in anything remotely like the manner you describe, which, based on my experience at least, is quite exceptional for someone your age. Maybe this is just a cultural thing, so I'll leave it to you to decide if what I am about to suggest makes any sense.

I get the feeling from everything you write, "my Mom is everything to me etc. etc..", plus the way you interact physically with her, that up until now, you were still very much your "Mom's" little boy and that maybe the ombilical cord had never really been cut.

If this is the case, by coming out you have just done two things that must be very traumatic for your mother:

- you have finally taken a personal stand on a very important issue, affirming your own identity independently of her ie. you have taken the first major step in finally cutting the ombilical cord.

- you have done it in a manner which seems to challenge many of your mother's core beliefs eg. about what being a man or a woman means.

Assuming there is some truth to all of this, she is going through more trauma than you can probably imagine and not yet being able to stand back from her own feelings and emotions, she is lashing out in an instinctive rejection of something she simply can't cope with for now.

While I'm writing this, I think she could actually do with some third party help herself, someone who could help her understand her reactions, stand back from it all and really think about what she now wants for herself. If you think of some of the posts you see in the SO section here, your mother is in the same situation but even worse as there is much to suggest that you two were perhaps even closer than was good for either of you.

For you yourself, is there nowhere you can go for a cooling off period, no friend or relative who could provide you with a place to sleep for a week or two?  If such a possibility exists, I really encourage you to do it as it will provide a breather for everyone and allow the tensions to ease. I would hope that even you mother could understand that.

One way or another, if your relationship is as solid as you described, this will work out because people who love each other, even when badly hurt, do try to understand the other person's point of view. So, don't panic, time is on your side and it is now mostly a question of creating the conditions to  allow everyone take stock. By order of importance, I would suggest your mother sees a therapist to talk through her own feelings and that you guys are separated for a while.

Wishing you all the very best.
Donna   

 

[Tristan]

Forgive me for my outburst.  It was childish to write all that here.  I want to scream and yell, but feel unable to do it at her.  Instead I have to sit and hear her compare me to a rapist for wanting to transition.  I'm doing the best I can to deal with her, but she is really testing me.  I don't know how much longer I can sit and explain the same things over again.  Shouldn't it seep in by now?  At least to some degree? 

My mom isn't kicking me out, but she is determined to stop this.  She makes threats that elude to kicking me out and stopping my transition; however, I doubt she will carry it out.  We had a very brief interaction and she is a little better. She is sleeping on the couch, so she didn't have the energy to continue perhaps.  But it was nice to have a pleasant makeup moment for two minutes.  But I have to be aware that she can snap at any moment.  She's been very unpredictable lately.  She's never supportive, but sometimes she is less hostile.  I guess I just need to put up with the abuse.  Hopefully, it will get better.

i would really recommend telling her you have decided not to transition and keep doing it behind her back for a few months to like 6 months so you can save up and move out. when parents get like that it can turn ugly for you. your of age right? i dont know what the rules are in your state but if its like mine they can lie to get you put on a 72 hour hold. all it takes (at least in my state) is two people to swear your a danger to yourself and sign a piece of paper and then someone from the court to sign off. then the police come to get you and take you to the psyc place. im sorry your moms trying to manipulate you but remember with that the next step is always to manipulate people other than you if you dont cave first 

[Jennygirl]

I dunno if I would recommend lying to her about it

I lied to my parents when I was younger about dysphoria related things and told them I had stopped. Eventually they found out again and it was 10X worse.

It might make it more survivable in the interim but lying about this sort of thing seems like it could leave a seriously permanent wound.

[Tristan]

I dunno if I would recommend lying to her about it

I lied to my parents when I was younger about dysphoria related things and told them I had stopped. Eventually they found out again and it was 10X worse.

It might make it more survivable in the interim but lying about this sort of thing seems like it could leave a seriously permanent wound.

yeah i can see your point. lying does make things worse if you are staying there long term. but if your moving and they are acting mean i wouldn't care

[BunnyBee]

I would just second Jenny's advice.  I wouldn't lie unless you feel willing for permanent damage to be done to your relationship with your mother.  In the short term she will learn that abusing you means getting her way and that you weren't serious about any of this, and in the long term, when she finds out you lied, she may not trust again, or worse.

[Bookworm]

Keeping things hidden is only a short term band aid.

[Ltl89]

Nothing has really changed since I last posted.  Last night we had another "talk" where she tried to convince me about my "mistake".  However, she said something that really concerns me.  She doesn't think that she can see me make the changes.  She isn't being hostile now, but she may not want to see me in the future.  At this moment, she doesn't know what this means, but we may no longer be able to live with each other or even have a close relationship.  I understand it's all hard for her, so I don't blame her for her feelings.  The things is, I don't want to permanently lose my mom and I don't know where I will go if it comes to that.  She told me she would never leave me in the cold, but she doesn't know if we can live in the same house at that point.  And she told me that I will not be allowed to leave or enter the house dressed in a manner that she deems inappropriate (aka, dressed as female).  So I'm freaked out.  Perhaps I shouldn't focus on this now, but I have to think about living arrangements if it comes to this.  I'm going to do my best to get any employment that I can find and save up.  The problem is where I live the cheapest apartments are around $1,000 a month.  That's just for a studio.  It's not really possible to afford rent in NYC or Long Island without a sustainable income.  There is the roomate option and moving to the ghetto option; however, I want to be safe while transitioning.  When throwing other transitioning costs on top of this, it becomes a huge struggle.  I guess it's possible to live in my car or stay at a shelter for some time, but that's not too ideal.  Nonetheless, if that's what's needed temporarily for transitioning, I will have to do it.  But my mom said she wouldn't leave me in the cold, so maybe I am over thinking it.  Then again, if she won't let me dress the way I want, it sort of is like being kicked out.  Hopefully, she will change her mind in time.

Hi LtL,
I am quite amazed at some of the things you are reporting about what has being going on between you and your mother since you came out. It really does amount to abuse. However, since everything you had said before that suggests that your mother was a very kind and loving person,  it makes me wonder what is driving all of this.

Actually, a couple of other things you said also attracted me attention, like you cuddling up against your mother on the sofa for a long hug.

I have a 24 year old son who is also very close to his mother (and to me as it happens) but I can't imagine him for a second cuddling up against his mother in anything remotely like the manner you describe, which, based on my experience at least, is quite exceptional for someone your age. Maybe this is just a cultural thing, so I'll leave it to you to decide if what I am about to suggest makes any sense.

I get the feeling from everything you write, "my Mom is everything to me etc. etc..", plus the way you interact physically with her, that up until now, you were still very much your "Mom's" little boy and that maybe the ombilical cord had never really been cut.

If this is the case, by coming out you have just done two things that must be very traumatic for your mother:

- you have finally taken a personal stand on a very important issue, affirming your own identity independently of her ie. you have taken the first major step in finally cutting the ombilical cord.

- you have done it in a manner which seems to challenge many of your mother's core beliefs eg. about what being a man or a woman means.

Assuming there is some truth to all of this, she is going through more trauma than you can probably imagine and not yet being able to stand back from her own feelings and emotions, she is lashing out in an instinctive rejection of something she simply can't cope with for now.

While I'm writing this, I think she could actually do with some third party help herself, someone who could help her understand her reactions, stand back from it all and really think about what she now wants for herself. If you think of some of the posts you see in the SO section here, your mother is in the same situation but even worse as there is much to suggest that you two were perhaps even closer than was good for either of you.

For you yourself, is there nowhere you can go for a cooling off period, no friend or relative who could provide you with a place to sleep for a week or two?  If such a possibility exists, I really encourage you to do it as it will provide a breather for everyone and allow the tensions to ease. I would hope that even you mother could understand that.

One way or another, if your relationship is as solid as you described, this will work out because people who love each other, even when badly hurt, do try to understand the other person's point of view. So, don't panic, time is on your side and it is now mostly a question of creating the conditions to  allow everyone take stock. By order of importance, I would suggest your mother sees a therapist to talk through her own feelings and that you guys are separated for a while.

Wishing you all the very best.
Donna   

 

Thank you Donna.  I understand what you are saying.  If I could leave briefly, I would; however, I have nowhere else to go.  I don't have anyone that would take me in or at least I don't have anyone that I'd feel comfortable asking.  So I am stuck here until I can afford to leave or have to do so.  I'm trying to help her understand and she will be attending my therapy session this week.  Still, she has told me that she will do whatever it takes to stop this and that she will not allow me to do this.  And if she does enforce a dress code for the house and tells me she doesn't want to see me change, then it might come to me being forced to go to a shelter or live in my car.  I just hope it improves, but I don't know.

[Joanna Dark]

Maybe she is trying to scare you and manipulate you into not transitioning. It is really, really selfish that she is so concerned with her own view of the world and happiness that you are just some player to be controlled and to fit into her world. If she really wanted you to be happy, she would at least keep these thoughts to herself. It is highly manipulative behavior. But you can put off going full-time for awhile. Does she mean obviously girly girl clothes or any clothes that are even andro? I guess I could understand the skirt and top but a sensible pair of women's jeans and a nice open neck top and a cute pair of canvas shoes not so much.

What would she say if you decided to detranstion but said how you would be sacrificing every ounce of happiness so she could go back to before and that you would prolly end up severely depressed or worse? 

[BunnyBee]

Along those lines, you could ask your mother this question, is the requirement for your love that I conform myself to your idea of who I am, instead of just being myself, even if that means that I will be unhappy for the rest of my life?

With how irrational she is being I don't think this question will cause her to suddenly be introspective or anything, but I think if her answer is yes, then you have to ask yourself if she is somebody you really want in your life after all?

I hope, for both of your sakes, that she will one day change her view on this.  I also know where she is asking you to go emotionally just so that she doesn't have to change her perception of you to match reality.

[Donna Elvira]

Along those lines, you could ask your mother this question, is the requirement for your love that I conform myself to your idea of who I am, instead of just being myself, even if that means that I will be unhappy for the rest of my life?

With how irrational she is being I don't think this question will cause her to suddenly be introspective or anything, but I think if her answer is yes, then you have to ask yourself if she is somebody you really want in your life after all?

I hope, for both of your sakes, that she will one day change her view on this.  I also know where she is asking you to go emotionally just so that she doesn't have to change her perception of you to match reality.

Hi Jen,
With all due respect, I don't believe such an approach would be very productive, at least not for now. Right now, if a win-win is the desired outcome, I really believe the biggest emphasis should be placed on understanding why LtL's mother is reacting in the way she is.
The only really positive path forward is true acceptance and it will be very difficult for acceptance to be freely given if it based on any sort of emotional blackmail, it must be based on understanding.
LtL's mother is struggling right now and she needs to understand what she is struggling with. She will almost certainly need outside help with this, a benevolent hand who can help her express her distress which is certainly what is driving what you call her "irrational" behaviour. The problem is, right now what seems irrational to you almost certainly seems very rational to her.
LtL has told us all along she wants to preserve the relationship with mother and, without giving in on anything, trying to understand the mother's feelings would probably be a good starting point in achieving this 
Warm regards.
Donna

[BunnyBee]

@Donna You are a very reasonable person 

I hope that her mother can find somebody that she respects to guide her in in the direction of acceptance.  I think it will be very hard to preserve the relationship without that happening.  Like you say, the only positive path forward is true acceptance.  Other paths forward will be varying degrees of unpleasantness.

I can see where her mother's distress comes from.  I can see how she wants to fix the cause of that.  I would love to see some sign that she is able to see past her own wants and needs.

I admit that this is too reminiscent of how things went with my own mother, and I have a hard time not being emotionally invested in this situation, which I'm sure clouds my judgement of it.

Oh PS I asked a similar question of my mom and it gave her pause.  It was asked softly with love behind it, maybe not with the tone you imagine.

[Joanna Dark]

The only really positive path forward is true acceptance and it will be very difficult for acceptance to be freely given if it based on any sort of emotional blackmail, it must be based on understanding.

I generally agree with you Donna but emotional blackmail is when someone tells someone else something untrue in order to manipulate them. The one guilty of it is LTL's mom, who I can't believe would cut her out of her life like that. LTL will experience all kinds of emotional horror by not transitioning. Especially now that she has come this far only to turn back. If I detransitioned, I'd be dead within the year. Maybe for others it isn't so dire and the stakes aren't so very high, but LTL could succumb to some bad influences as in hard drugs like I did. Her mom should know the consequences of her actions.

And I said something similar to my mom. She was like "you need to stop this" and I said "fine I will. And tomorrow I'll relapse. How do you think I got well and I got happy? This is the answer."

I admit maybe I'm lucky in a strange sort of way that I can point to exact situations that have occured and will occur when I am in the grips of horrid GID.

[JLT1]

LtL – Did you and your mother spend a lot of time together, planning your future?  Kind of mapping things out???

[Donna Elvira]

I generally agree with you Donna but emotional blackmail is when someone tells someone else something untrue in order to manipulate them.

Hi Joanna,
Wikipedia: Emotional blackmail is a form of psychological manipulation - it is "the use of a system of threats and punishment on a person by someone close to them in an attempt to control their behavior".

IMHO, telling someone that you will be unhappy all of your life and maybe do something drastic (even doing it) if they don't give in to you would enter that definition, even if true. In recent years, one of my neighbours threatened his wife that he would kill himself if she left him. He tried once unsuccessfully but succeeded a few months later, hanging himself in the living room where he was found by one of his kids. Do you believe his wife, who was deeply unhappy with their relationaship, should have stayed with him?

In reaction to the first draft of  LtL's coming out letter, I suggested that "emotional blackmail" was a double edged sword. it can work, short term, but does not lead to a healthy relationship and almost always creates lingering resentment. At the first opportunity, the people concerned will almost invariably do it back to you too.

Today, LtL is feeling a lot of guilt about her mother's visible suffering but at some stage this could easily become frustration and anger. Sure she could hit back and try to make her mother feel as bad as possible too but I really don"t see that being a good solution for either of them.

As a late transitioner doing quite a slow transition I believe a lot in the virtue of patience. In my own case it has allowed me to preserve my mariage, my relationaship with my kids and pretty well all the people who count in my life. I have already transitioned completely in my private life and while there is still some frustration on the professional end, just knowing who I am, accepting who I am and being accepted by those around me has provided great relief and at times, even real joy. The term  "gender euphoria" is perfectly adapted!

LtL is only 24 and her relationship with her mother counts hugely for her. Under such circomstances, I believe it is worth taking some time to gain real acceptance and the best way to do that, is to try to geuninely understand the other person's feelings before pushing your own agenda.
If at the end of the day, you hit a wall, so be it but I think it is far too early in the day to say that this is the case here.

Warm regards.
Donna

P.S. Difference between manipulation and influence?  In manipulation you try to influence someone without being open to their influence in return (you are just pushing your own agenda). Real influence requires being open to the other party's influence in return.

Regarding this. Another "axiom" worth considering is the following: In any given situation, the person who has the greatest influence is the person who shows the most flexibility in their behaviours.

People often find this idea quite counter intuitive, and very difficult to put into practise, but when you think about it for a while....

[makinmagic]

learningtolive, I am in tears reading all this. How can people be so cruel? A Mother is the one who should be the most supportive of all and yet she is treating you like that. This is horrible, horrible situation to be in. It seems to me that she mainly thinks of herself and is being horribly selfish, thinking how she had a son and now she doesn't and about all of the embarrassing explanations she would have to do to friends, family and neighbors. She doesn't want her life to change and doesn't understand that it's about YOU and YOUR life and not hers.
I don't know where in NY you are, I just wish I could help. We are in upstate NY and if you ever need any help, please contact me.
And I thought my mom's reaction was bad... she has NEVER accepted the fact that I am trans and even after all these years, surgeries and HRT she still thinks I am kidding myself and will someday regret. Well, at least she never screamed at me and keeps loving me.
I agree with many people here... you should run for the hills if it get worse, if she really tries something like getting rid of your meds or bringing a pries home or something.

[VenomGaia]

learningtolive, I am in tears reading all this. How can people be so cruel? A Mother is the one who should be the most supportive of all and yet she is treating you like that. This is horrible, horrible situation to be in. It seems to me that she mainly thinks of herself and is being horribly selfish, thinking how she had a son and now she doesn't and about all of the embarrassing explanations she would have to do to friends, family and neighbors. She doesn't want her life to change and doesn't understand that it's about YOU and YOUR life and not hers.
I don't know where in NY you are, I just wish I could help. We are in upstate NY and if you ever need any help, please contact me.
And I thought my mom's reaction was bad... she has NEVER accepted the fact that I am trans and even after all these years, surgeries and HRT she still thinks I am kidding myself and will someday regret. Well, at least she never screamed at me and keeps loving me.
I agree with many people here... you should run for the hills if it get worse, if she really tries something like getting rid of your meds or bringing a pries home or something.

Yeah...If she brings a priest home, there's not much use in trying to convince her anymore....
Now, I dont' know much about meds, but I know that my ADD meds are paid for by my dad. Now, if my mom were to get rid of those, then she would be trashing a good 40 bucks.

I dunno ''bout every one else, but that sounds kinda messed up to me.

[BunnyBee]

Hi Joanna,
Wikipedia: Emotional blackmail is a form of psychological manipulation - it is "the use of a system of threats and punishment on a person by someone close to them in an attempt to control their behavior".

IMHO, telling someone that you will be unhappy all of your life and maybe do something drastic (even doing it) if they don't give in to you would enter that definition, even if true. In recent years, one of my neighbours threatened his wife that he would kill himself if she left him. He tried once unsuccessfully but succeeded a few months later, hanging himself in the living room where he was found by one of his kids. Do you believe his wife, who was deeply unhappy with their relationaship, should have stayed with him?

The question I posed was (with fewer words) in order for you to love me do I have to pretend to be somebody other than myself, even if that means I will never be happy?  No mention of doing anything drastic.  Honestly I don't see blackmail there because it lacks a threat, other than the threat of how her mother's vision of her future will actually affect her.  It is an emotional appeal for sure, but blackmail... idk

I just felt I needed to clarify because a) I don't see how it is a bad question to ask and b) comparing it to threatening suicide is just...  way off base from the intention of anything I said.  I am just kind of feeling like I'm having things projected all over my words..

I dealt with some very negative reactions when I came out to my fam and I still am being patient and trying to preserve relationships with them.  I am not a rash person and I value the relationship with my family more than you can know.

I also understood my own fragility and realized when I had to put some distance between me and people that were being toxic and driving me toward losing my battle.  So what I mean by asking whether you want such people in your life is not cutting them off, or striking out and burning every bridge, I just mean stepping out of their toxic cloud so you can recover and start to grow.  I would never cut anybody out of my life out of spite and I haven't, and I wouldn't ever mean to suggest anybody else do so either.  I have never told anybody off through this process.  All of them know how much I love them because I tell them so.

[Donna Elvira]

The question I posed was (with fewer words) in order for you to love me do I have to pretend to be somebody other than myself, even if that means I will never be happy?  No mention of doing anything drastic.  Honestly I don't see blackmail there because it lacks a threat, other than the threat of how her mother's vision of her future will actually affect her.  It is an emotional appeal for sure, but blackmail... idk

Joanna,
That's not a bad question but it is still all about you and posed in such a manner, probably will create feelings of guilt in the other person. What I am saying is that when someone you love is clearly in deep distress, it might be a good idea to first focus on them.
With that I need to get to work...
Warm regards.
Donna

[Tristan]

How can they be so cruel? Easy. Use what you have to get what you want and to get people to do what you want. It's basic queen bee stuff 101.