Fat (Somewhat of an emotional rant...)

[ChrisRokk]

Although everyone has valid and good points for losing weight, I don't actually think that's the problem here.  If you're of a healthy weight, then you shouldn't be trying to lose weight, just aim to eat healthily and exercise in order to stay fit and well.

I also wonder if your weight is actually the issue since you said you were at a healthy weight for a woman, which is typically lower than a healthy weight for a man.  If you have insurance, maybe consider seeing a dietitian.  A good one will help you figure out your psychological issues regarding your weight and how you eat in addition to recommending a healthy way to eat that works for you.

[Jack_M]

Healthy weights are hard to judge. BMI is bogus and it doesn't change with gender. I've seen people with a "healthy" BMI and they're actually a little pudgy. Not long back I was in that boat where theoretically I had a healthy BMI but that was rubbish. I was carrying too much fat. So that's what I asssumed here. It's hard to know what's legit healthy and what's the useless BMI healthy. What I've actually found is I've lost a a lot of fat but put on muscle. So I look extremely different to what I looked like at the beginning of the year but in terms of healthy BMI I'm starting to push back into high range. I wear 30 inch pants so I'm not even close to overweight!! But that's muscle that's caused that and I know looking at what I can stomach to look at that I do have less fat so I know to call it BS. So from one extreme to the other I've found BMI to be the worst indicator of a healthy weight. I actually find it wrong for any doc to use this exclusively in determining healthy weight. A doctor I shadowed at med school hated it with a passion because some athletes found themselves worrying about being high range or overweight and then some overweight individuals thought they must be okay because they were within healthy BMI range.

So what might be a good idea is to talk to a good doctor or nutritionist and see what they say. There's also just the idea of people wanting to look more trim but make sure It's not that you're seeing what isn't the case.

But again, eat proper food regardless. Just eating fruit and celery is a recipe for disaster and you'll make yourself very ill.

[ChrisRokk]

So what might be a good idea is to talk to a good doctor or nutritionist and see what they say. There's also just the idea of people wanting to look more trim but make sure It's not that you're seeing what isn't the case.

Super solid advice.  I am afraid to tell people what they should be eating and how they should be exercising because even though I am a science person, I am not an M.D. or an R.D.  Unfortunately some medical doctors don't even know much about nutrition.  Also, anyone can call themselves a nutritionist, but you have to get a degree and go through certification to be a registered dietitian, so there is probably a little less quackery there.  For sure check on the credentials of the person you are seeing.

[Jamie D]

Vegetarians can stuff their faces full of carbs and sugars just like the rest of us

I suppose so.  All of the ones I know are very health conscious.

[ford]

Healthy weights are hard to judge. BMI is bogus and it doesn't change with gender.

^^^ so true.

I started T about 2 months ago. Put on ~8 lbs pretty fast...but it's all muscle. Pull ups, pushups...suddenly those are producing actual results, and of course I'm still the same height. My pants are getting looser and looser, so clearly in this case, my BMI is going up. But I'm more fit, more lean, just more heavily muscled. To me this shows me how easily it is to get confused by BMI...it doesn't distinguish muscle from fat.

(Disclaimer - I work out a lot and eat a very healthy diet. T is definitely not a weight loss supplemenst, lol. In fact it makes me crazy hungry most of the time)

[Devlyn]

Why is the BMI bogus? I just checked mine and it says I'm in a healthy range leaning towards underweight, which is spot on. It said for my height (5'5") that 180 lbs would be where I cross into obese, which I agree with, my frame ain't built for that kind of weight. I'm just wondering where the discrepancies are. It seems to offer lots of leeway until you get to either extreme. Full disclosure, I'm thin, so never paid attention to this stuff. Nor am I a doctor, or have any training in reading the results, but it seems to be about right to me.

[ChrisRokk]

Why is the BMI bogus? I just checked mine and it says I'm in a healthy range leaning towards underweight, which is spot on. It said for my height (5'5") that 180 lbs would be where I cross into obese, which I agree with, my frame ain't built for that kind of weight. I'm just wondering where the discrepancies are. It seems to offer lots of leeway until you get to either extreme. Full disclosure, I'm thin, so never paid attention to this stuff. Nor am I a doctor, or have any training in reading the results, but it seems to be about right to me.

It is about right for some people, but it's horrible for athletes especially.  It doesn't take body composition into account at all.  Also it is skewed at the ends, giving shorter people way more leeway than taller people.

[Devlyn]

It is about right for some people, but it's horrible for athletes especially.  It doesn't take body composition into account at all.  Also it is skewed at the ends, giving shorter people way more leeway than taller people.

I noticed that, but it looks like other than really big or really small, a person can be in a wide weight range and fall in normal territory. I would assume that covers the difference in gender, as well. Again, I'll mention, I have no experience here.

[Jack_M]

BMI is not a good indicator because it assumes an average in terms of muscle and fat. But what happens is you can have perfectly healthy individuals who have more muscle than fat appearing to be overweight. Many very healthy UFC fighters for example would be considered overweight, and especially so pre-cutting for weigh ins. Even including those come weigh in time, they would be a lot of them in the very high range to borderline "healthy". For example Tito Ortiz is actually overweight at weight in!

But it can happen at the other end too where you have individuals who are actually carrying too much weight in fat and don't have much muscle at all. This is especially true for males and any females who carry weight more in the gut or "apple" shape as they call it. This is the most unhealthy form of fat storage and makes an individual have higher risks of weight relates problems.  And if you have one of those individuals who still fits within a healthy BMI range they can be argumentative if a doctor suggests they try to lose weight or exercise because according to BMI, they're healthy!

Think of the stereotypical view of a geek. Lanky, thin, hardly any muscle. Now imagine they start eating a lot and put on a ton of fat. There was very little muscle to speak of. Strictly speaking, they may have built a tiny amount through eating more but very little overall. If they were high range "healthy" according to BMI and compared with an UFC fighter at same range. It's a huge difference, and the one without muscles isn't healthy at all.

There's also the issue of beer guts and again BMI gives a lot of leeway for already somewhat skinny individuals with extremely unhealthy beer guts.

[Cyncat]

This is my first post here. *hello*
I just wanted to see if I can offer some helpful advise.

I'm just starting down this road we are all walking in some form, or another.
And I'm also severely over wieght, disabled, and Glucose intolerant. But surprisingly
I'm not diabetic. 

There a few other things but not as important.

What is important is that I've lost 35# so far. But this is just me.

Go to your doctor. Have them run some tests. See if they can help you figure out if anything is wrong.
Ask them what they recommend intake wise. My doc said 1500 calories. I find I'm full any where between 1200-1500 depending on how my stomach feels.

Also, thanks to some help from my fam, I'm able to go to the gym 3x a week.
This is what I do there:
13min steam room
Off to warm water pool:
10min yoga
10min leg stretches (cause I have issues with them)
20 min water jogging
15min upper water weights (arms, chest)

I use a calorie counter. If you have a iPod/android type device they are pretty easy to find.
I also use bento boxes to control the amount I eat. It works along the lines of
If the box holds say 500ml, then as long as you don't pack caloric heavy foods, it will work out to 500 calories. Check out www.justbento.com for better info.

Basically, find out works for you and your doctor. Educate your self on food. Find an easy cook book to follow. I used students vegetarian cook book. I'm not vegetarian, but they have excellent, quick recipes that are filling and low calorie.

Good luck!

[D0LL]

I'm gonna have to agree with everyone else here. BMI is beyond crap. Yes, it can be helpful for some people sometimes. But generally it isn't accurate enough to be worth the trouble. If you can't look at yourself in a mirror and see your fat to muscle ratio, a BMI number isn't going to do much to help you.

I know I have yet to start on T, but I've noticed drastic changes in my body's fat content just from the hormonal changes that have come from me stopping my phyto-estrogens. It's been between one and two months now, and my body has dropped over 2 inches from my ass and an inch from each of my thighs. I've also gone from an almost 34DD to a 34C.

As a hypothyroid sufferer, this is the only way I've really managed to be able to lose weight in any part of my body. Diet and exercise generally don't work for me, unfortunately. I even tried extreme dieting (~1500 cal a day) and 1-2hr jogs every morning for 3 weeks (with weight training exercises and extra cardio 2-3 times a week). In the end I gained a few pounds. So if diet and exercise don't work for you, you may want to get a checkup to see if you're having any problems preventing weight loss. If you're getting your thyroid checked, have a saliva panel done, not a blood test; it will be cheaper and WAAAAAYYYYYYYY more accurate because it tests the amount of thyroid hormone your body is able to use, not just the amount it produces. My blood tests showed my body was making the perfect amount, but I was so sickly by that point I almost wasn't able to leave the house. Despite my negative test results, I took thyroid supplements and felt almost perfectly healthy within two weeks.

Also, I hope you realize starving yourself does NOT work. That diet method makes you more likely to gain weight and become generally unhealthy.

[Devlyn]

Thanks for patiently answering my questions, guys. So essentially, someone who is really cut can work "all the way through" their healthy range and pop out into the unhealthy range even though they're beyond fit. If I'm finally getting this right?

[geek]

i eat pretty much what i want - whenever i want these days, if i really want a cheeseburger i'll have one, but thats they key - ill have one :p and i wont go over my calorie limit to do so, doing that ive lost heaps. really, just download an app for your phone (myfitnesspal has a desktop version if for some reason you dont have a phone from this decade) ive only just started getting active really, i mean ive been walking around for a while, but ive recently purchased a new set of awesome inlines and im looking to eventually do slalom. losing weight is maths - you can lose weight even if you want to sit on your butt all day long.

[Jack_M]

Thanks for patiently answering my questions, guys. So essentially, someone who is really cut can work "all the way through" their healthy range and pop out into the unhealthy range even though they're beyond fit. If I'm finally getting this right?

Yup, or even be unhealthy in the healthy range. For example, I'm high range healthy right now but wear 30inch pants. I just have a ton of muscle in my legs (footballer thighs; cyclist calves) and have started putting on more  muscle in my top half. I've still got some fat to lose, of course, but nothing major. Now if someone was the same weight as me but doesn't exercise at all, that weight is more fat than muscle, they'd definitely not be as "healthy" as me and yet we'd be considered equal according to BMI. That individual would best be advised to exercise and try and trim down a little, but BMI healthy ranges can be like the beer goggles of weight issues: can make people believe they're healthy when they're not.

Also along with that comes athletes who are in low range of healthy - that's not actually healthy for them either.

[Cyncat]

Or some one like me. I am severely (really severely) over weight, yet essentially I'm healthy, or so my doc says. If I got the wieght off most of my physical stuff would disappear. And I'm working on that.

Knowledge will be the greatest help. Knowledge is the greatest power. 

[JessicaH]

just to clear something up that seems to be brewing here.

When it comes to weight loss, a calorie is a calorie. I am NOT talking about health or building musce or diabetes or how those calories affect your body in general. No matter what crap you choose to eat, 2k cals is 2k cals. 1800 is 1800 and the 3500 calories it takes to lose a pound is 3500 calories.

So i would personally blow off all this low carb high carb low fat b.s. when i am trying to cut fat  I personally respond well to a low carb diet but i realize it is because i suuuck at tracking my carbs and i am an all or nothing guy. If i can have one piece of toast i want five. Its because i am eating less calories which is a result of eating less food. it is not the result of some magical carb fairy that somehow reduces my weight by depriving me of carbohydrates..

Sorry, not true. Have any science or medical studies to back up your claim? Humans did not evolve to eat the massive amounts of carbohydrates that is in our modern diets. What we eat makes a huge difference in how hungry or full we feel or if I body wants to create energy or store fat.

[Ponyboy]

Corroborating the bogus-ness of BMI.  At my height and weight (5'5" and 185) I'd be in that obese range.  However, if you looked at me, I am far from it.  My thighs are solid muscle (I still have quite a bit in my abdominal region as well) and as we know that weighs more than fat.

Also, I'm a chubby vegetarian.  This is more due to having to be on cycles of steroids, but I'm sure my diet doesn't help.  I need to get back to a much more plant-based diet.

Don't think that concern over weight is just a "girly" thing.  I know many more men than women who are vain about their weight.

[chuck]

Sorry, not true. Have any science or medical studies to back up your claim? Humans did not evolve to eat the massive amounts of carbohydrates that is in our modern diets. What we eat makes a huge difference in how hungry or full we feel or if I body wants to create energy or store fat.

absolutely true. as a few posts above me said "losing weight is maths'. if you read my post a bit more closely you will find that yes, what we eat affects how we feel etc etc. But the bottom line is that if you eat less calories than you burn, you will lose weight. If you burn 2300 calories a day and only eat 1800, you will lose weight. It does not matter if you eat 1800 calories from chocolate, steak or broccoli. You will lose weight.

I am not talking about how foods will affect your energy or your health in general. I simply stating a proven fact. Burn more calories than you eat, you will lose weight. I dont really need to cite any sources, you can crack open an 8th grade science book and get the same info.

But 

here is something that might help. Note how the article says "Weight loss comes down to burning more calories that you take in"

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/weight-loss/MY00432

[geek]

Sorry, not true. Have any science or medical studies to back up your claim? Humans did not evolve to eat the massive amounts of carbohydrates that is in our modern diets. What we eat makes a huge difference in how hungry or full we feel or if I body wants to create energy or store fat.

looks pretty conclusive to me lol

absolutely true. as a few posts above me said "losing weight is maths'. if you read my post a bit more closely you will find that yes, what we eat affects how we feel etc etc. But the bottom line is that if you eat less calories than you burn, you will lose weight. If you burn 2300 calories a day and only eat 1800, you will lose weight. It does not matter if you eat 1800 calories from chocolate, steak or broccoli. You will lose weight.

i really cant stress this enough - sure its not going to be all yay nutrients - but losing weight really isnt hard - ive lost over 60kg now and i eat what i want when i want - i just dont go over my calorie limit each day. if you want to hit all the nutrients youre meant to have - good luck - but the 'easy' way works and it works especially well if youre weak willed and really like eating bad things

[therewolf]

I would try lifting, unless economic or medical circumstances forbid it. Just seeing some muscle in the places you want it can take some of the sting out of seeing curves in the places you don't, and in addition to the whole exercise-balances-your-mood thing, I find that just being able to feel that I'm that much stronger than I was really helps when I'm feeling hopeless about my body. Also, if I have a protein shake for lifting in the morning, having that solid start meal-wise keeps me on a more mentally even keel up through lunchtime.