Estrogen without anti-androgens

[keira939]

Hey everyone! I have just been prescribed estrogen patches by my doctor however they want me to wait 3 months before starting anti-androgens. I was just wondering if this was usual practice. Also as I am only 19 years old my T levels are quite high and I am feeling quite doubtful I am going to move anywhere till anti-androgens are introduced. Is there any chance of me still gaining some level of feminisation before I am able to get anti-androgens?

 

[bethanyjadefowell]

Don't worry about T that much. I am not on a T blocker, but what I am on will make my male T go... I am just on female HRT. Use to be on a T blocker. Long story...

[Riley Skye]

Guessing that they want to see if the estrogen will lower your testosterone. It may or may not have an impact on your T. I will suggest that you give this a lot of patience with transition as it takes months to years to develop and best of luck with your transition

[stacey fisher]

hi I have just started estradiol and also not on blockers have to go back in 3months to see how its going then if needed get blockers told that this the normal way by my clinic but notes already changes down in that department

[Jamie D]

Hey everyone! I have just been prescribed estrogen patches by my doctor however they want me to wait 3 months before starting anti-androgens. I was just wondering if this was usual practice. Also as I am only 19 years old my T levels are quite high and I am feeling quite doubtful I am going to move anywhere till anti-androgens are introduced. Is there any chance of me still gaining some level of feminisation before I am able to get anti-androgens?

 

Is it not unusual to stagger the start of the two types of HRT.  Part of it will be to see how your body reacts to the estrogen by itself.

Be patient.   

[mrs izzy]

What i tell anyone new starting HRT is, Take a deep breath and hold on to you hat.. HRT is not a cure all and so many think its magic. I would say its more magical in the fact of how it effets ones body. Every doctor has there own methods, also they love to have test results at the begining to help them guide the process. For me i think i have taken every estrogen on the market in low to high doses. Same as Spironolactone, Cyproterone ie:Androcour the same in high and low doses until i got to something that worked for my personal comfort. I found that most are now starting things one at time just to see how ones body reacts, then makes adjustments as they feel needed... So yes relax you have a very, very, very long journeys path to walk and be patient everything will settle out in your bodies own time.

[Jenna Marie]

I started on estrogen patches only... and when I went back for the retest, my T was already in female ranges and I didn't need anti-androgens at all. I like not taking a second med. For what it's worth, I also had very satisfactory results (=consistently read as female by month 4, decent curves, 42DDD and still growing). Hopefully you will make *some* progress, and the worst case is that these three months are less than ideal but better than nothing!

[Cindy]

I went on E first and then was assessed for T levels under the influence of E alone. Mine (T) went to zero in two weeks. I take Spiro purely to control hair growth cycles.

[judithlynn]

Hi Keira,
I have just passed 8 months on HRT today - Yeh!! My Doctor started me on just Oestrogen a low dosage only and then tested me monthly. After 2 months he doubled it, then on month 4 increased it again and my T Levels dropped dramatically to the situation now where I have almost no T in my bloodstream. In fact I am at the low  end of normal female range of T. After 6 months he said I could increase the level again if I really wanted, but this would increase the risk of thrombosis, so I decided not to.

I have not had T Blockers at all. 

Although I am still in transition mode  as I am working real hard on getting rid of the facial hair, emotionally and I think mentally I have changed as I definitely feel more feminine. My boobs are a nice 42B (small B that is, but I really would like more volume - so I am hoping they will keep growing, although it seems to be in spurts.. Body Hair is thinning out, but it looks as though it will be here for some time yet. My pubic hair has gone all soft and downy as has my underarm hair, although I wax this as often as I can.  Also now when I get my legs waxed the hairs just seem to lift very easily, although the bikini line is still a bit of torture. Various people keep commenting on how good my complexion is and my skin is very soft these days.  I in fact went to a new Beauty Salon last week and the therapist commented on how good my skin looked and how my nail beds  were so good and many women would die for them.  So the HRT must be working.

When out about as my natural self (as Judith), I am starting to feel totally confident and relaxed, but am conscious still of not passing, but I actually met up with Cindy last week in her home city in Adelaide, and we had a great day shopping and having dinner together, so I reckon it would be good to get her view on how well I pass after 8 months on the "happy pills".

Best of luck

[pollypagan]

I have just started my 4th week on low dose E alone. (Finasteride doesn't count I don't think). I have noticed no changes to date although when I move my arms they feel different against my side. Emotionally I feel different but that could be just the joy of taking the plunge. I actually do not intend ever moving beyond low dose E alone and my doc is fine with that. For completeness I'm in my late 50's.

[sam79]

It's common to start on E only. Perhaps even preferred now days. If you don't need the assistance of a blocker, then all the better for your body.

Although I get how the waiting is all kinds of frustrating. I'm heading towards 5 months and my T still isn't suppressed ( even with blockers ).

On the up side, it takes very little E to start growing your boobs. T doesn't interfere much with that for whatever reason. See how your chest feels in a few weeks

[Hideyoshi]

I was on Finasteride/high dose Estradiol with no spiro for about 8-9 months, and my T (free and total) was still within low male range.

I had feminization, but once spiro was introduced, my boobs exploded with growth and I started to get much faster feminization.

I would ask (beg) your doctor for spiro

[bethanyjadefowell]

I'm on Progynova. Thinking about it, do I not need to be on a T- blocker?

This is what the first DR I saw in London wrote to my GP

"I would recommend that she be put onto Progynova at dose of _. When she has been on that for 8 weeks the aim would be to titrate the oestrogen dose to reach a plasma oestradiol level of _ to _ pmol/L. If on _ of Progynova her testosterone is not suppressed into the female range of <3 then she should be coadministerd with Decapeptyl _ every 12 weeks or Zoladex every 12 weeks".

Will I get full feminization with the above and would I still need a T-blocker?

[Joanna Dark]

Without a T blocker like androcour or spiro, you will get insufficient feminization. Will you feminize? Maybe. I think it depends on your T level and receptivity to E. But no matter what unless your T is sufficiently suppressed, you will not feminize as completely as possible. But you can still feminize. Maybe a lot. But it would be more if your T was gone. It's all genetics.

[bethanyjadefowell]

What is Decapeptyl and Zoladex for then?

[Ltl89]

I think this is a common starting regimen.  I myself started on a low dose of Estradiol without spiro.  This went on for a little more than a month.  Starting this week my doctor doubled my Estradiol and put me on Spiro.  Her reasoning was to see how my body responded to the initial dosage before putting me on a larger dosage.  So I don't think it is uncommon for to start out that way.

[Flan]

What is Decapeptyl and Zoladex for then?

They suppress the hormone that signals hormone production in the gonads reproductive organs.

edit: In case it wasn't clear compared to the armchair doctors, these drugs eliminate the need for an antiandrogen most of the time. A DHT blocker might be desired for hair regrowth depending on needs.

[Horizon]

Without a T blocker like androcour or spiro, you will get insufficient feminization. Will you feminize? Maybe. I think it depends on your T level and receptivity to E. But no matter what unless your T is sufficiently suppressed, you will not feminize as completely as possible. But you can still feminize. Maybe a lot. But it would be more if your T was gone. It's all genetics.

All of what Joanna said, and I also want to point out that masculinization will continue until T is in a "normal" female range.  i.e., new hairs may grow in and bone structure may continue deepening/expanding.  E alone may bring T down, but it also won't be fully used for its intended purpose.  T blockers allow Estradiol to feminize without being wasted on blocking T, I believe.

[Jenna Marie]

It is true that some E is "used up" blocking T... which is why, in the olden days before anti-androgens, people used to be on super high doses of E. Basically, if some is being used as an anti-androgen, the total dose must be upped to compensate. However, it's still possible for *some* women to see perfectly acceptable T suppression and feminization on safe doses of estrogen only. Since it's safer to take as low a dose and as few different meds as possible, and women *need* estrogen, it makes some sense to start there and see if anyone is fortunate enough not to need more.

But you never know; I actually never changed my E dose post-op, because it was already so low (not listing amounts, but it's within the range prescribed and marketed to menopausal cis women). Which leads me to suspect my T producers gave up the ghost very fast. And my estrogen receptors must be in overdrive.

[keira939]

Spoke to my doctor but he is insisting I wait the 3 months out and see what happens. So I will just have to wait and hope, although I am still doubtful I am going to get any changes without an anti-androgen. Anyway, one week down, thanks for the replies everyone  x