Do any of us really pass? Ever?

[Carlita]

My wife is fighting tooth and nail to prevent me beginning the process of transition. I don't blame her for that. She's terrified about what will happen to her and our kids, and she's also frightened for me.

Whatever I may feel like on the inside, to the outside world I seem like someone who is very obviously male: 6ft tall, 180lbs, losing a little hair on top, often has a beard. Basically I'm one of the 'before' pics in the 'Before and after thread'.

My wife's convinced that the only possible 'after' would be a humiliating disaster. As far as she is concerned, no one born male who has a sex-change ever looks, or sounds, or acts remotely like a 'real' woman. If they think they do, they're conning themselves. If anyone else tells then they do, they're simply telling a white lie to be polite.

I tell myself that she's just trying to scare me. I remind myself of all the therapists, surgeons, voice coaches, etc, who've told me that it would take time - more time than I'd really like - and it would be tough, but I could come out at the other end as someone who fits into society as a female and is accepted as such.

But of course, she's striking at my weakest point. Because that's the thing that obsesses and scares us all - can we pass? Will people always give us odd/hostile/micking looks in the street? Will they always see the man that even the prettiest MTF sometimes sees when she looks in the mirror? And are we only ever kidding ourselves to think any different?

Because here's the thing ... I have seen, and heard and met MTFs and come away thinking. 'Who are you trying to kid?' That's partly because I'm hyper-sensitive to any sign of 'trans' ... and partly because there really are some TS's who don't pass. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they're living in blissful ignorance. But they don't pass.

So I come back to the question ... based on your personal experiences of yourselves and others, are we kidding ourselves, or can we really just transition, find our true selves, be accepted as women and get on with our lives?

[anya921]

well in my experience, almost two years after I went full time no one thinks I am nothing more than a cis woman. None of the friends I made after my transition knows about my past and no one even hinted anything of suspecting me being born as a male. I am 5'7" which is tall for women in south Asia.

AS far as voice in concern I have never called anything other than Miss or Maam over the phone and my sister's mother-in-law always mistake my voice over my sisters.

IMHO passing is more about confidence and acting natural rather than the looks and being ultra feminine. I always has been bit of a tomboy and I think I will always that person and I am not doing anything other than being my self. Only thing I worked on during my transition is my voice and other than that I didn't do anything other than being my self.

Even Though I pass all the time, I still see bits and pieces of my old self every time I look in the mirror and I alway think people can read me. But the thing is I am the only one see the faults in my look and for everyone else I am just a cis woman.

and to answer your question, I think passing is possible and I believe I pass well as a cis woman.

[anya921]

and to add to my post, last week end I had such a hard time explaining a physician why I don't have periods and finally I had to tell him I was born male and that is why I don't have periods LoL

[Antonia J]

In my experience many pass, some don't, and a lot depends on the person.  The people I know personally who do pass usually put an immense amount of time in presentation, but also have confidence to own their gender in a way even some cis do not.  Many also have spent tens of thousands of dollars on hair removal, ffs, voice, etc. A rare few are just lucky, but even the lucky ones who truly pass bust their rear ends.

If you are not a member of a local support group I would encourage you to find and join one.  You will meet people of all stages of transition and presentation. You might also find that passing is not the full objective or goal you may think it is now.  You might find that being you is more important than passing, and I'm not being snarky. Either way, meeting others in person will help you understand physical transition better.

[ZoeM]

I know I pass. All 5'11" of me.
I've put myself through several stress tests and come away victorious each time. Which makes me one of the insanely-lucky ones, I suppose...

If you want to convince your wife, I'd suggest taking her through the "Fabulous" thread, or finding some YouTube videos of successful transitions. Nothing convinces like hard evidence.

[vegie271]

I walk into emergency rooms and want me to take pregnancy tests before I take xrays - or to sign waivers - how is  that? - I try to tell them I am a lesbian and it does not matter but even that does not dissuade them I just sign the waiver - It does work out - it can be amazing how much HRT does work. and there are tall cis womyn

[Cindy]

I have to be careful, my 'Aussie bluntness' can be misinterpreted.

I'll ask a question based on my life and my terror and my acceptance or lack of it.

"My wife's convinced that the only possible 'after' would be a humiliating disaster. As far as she is concerned, no one born male who has a sex-change ever looks, or sounds, or acts remotely like a 'real' woman. If they think they do, they're conning themselves. If anyone else tells then they do, they're simply telling a white lie to be polite."

Who gives a ->-bleeped-<-?

I don't pass but I'm alive.
I love me and accept me.
My society can think what the devil they want.
But I can now live.

Will I ever pass as some dolly woman, no way, but WHO CARES.

I look as bad as every other woman I meet, and I don't look like the women in the magazines.
No one does.

Women set themselves incredible standards and that is why young woman are tormented with body image.

We suffer that in spades!

Don't Worry!!!!!

[Jenna Marie]

It seems like that's often the reaction when someone finds out... I wonder if it's their own fears (or bigotry) talking.

I recommend checking out this thread as well : https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,117457.0.html

For me, the latest was being at the doctor's office, with bronchitis so my voice sounded like hell, topless as the nurse practitioner listened to my lungs - and she ended the appointment by harassing me rather aggressively to get a Pap smear because I've never had one according to my chart! I've also been told that when someone at work shares my story (and I wish people would stop doing THAT, sheesh) the listener sometimes argues with them. "You must mean [that masculine woman who works here]," and she's cis. Also, if your wife thinks the entire world is that polite, she's a bit optimistic.

As an aside, the story from work also shows that people have a mental bias; they assume they know when someone is trans, and it's based on the people who seem "obviously trans." Then they remember only those people and are sure a) that they were right (since, in some cases, the masculine-looking woman is NOT trans) and b) all trans women look like that (because the ones who do blend in, are being overlooked).

Oh, and c), *after* they find out about her, they go searching for signs of past masculinity. Which you could find in anybody; my wife has broader shoulders, more muscles, and more brow bossing than I do. Heck, when people guess which of us is the trans woman, they're wrong more than half the time (because I'm a lot more "casual femme" than she is). Basically, there is a *huge* variation in women and womanhood, and there are cis women who get accosted in bathrooms and told to leave, too. It's perfectly understandable that you want to be one of the women who has less hassle in her life, and blending in is the best way to accomplish that. But not everyone feels that way, not even all cis women.

[kira21 ♡♡♡]

fear doesn't often create rational thinking.

[Carlita]

I have to be careful, my 'Aussie bluntness' can be misinterpreted.

I'll ask a question based on my life and my terror and my acceptance or lack of it.

"My wife's convinced that the only possible 'after' would be a humiliating disaster. As far as she is concerned, no one born male who has a sex-change ever looks, or sounds, or acts remotely like a 'real' woman. If they think they do, they're conning themselves. If anyone else tells then they do, they're simply telling a white lie to be polite."

Who gives a ->-bleeped-<-?

I don't pass but I'm alive.
I love me and accept me.
My society can think what the devil they want.
But I can now live.

Will I ever pass as some dolly woman, no way, but WHO CARES.

I look as bad as every other woman I meet, and I don't look like the women in the magazines.
No one does.

Women set themselves incredible standards and that is why young woman are tormented with body image.

We suffer that in spades!

Don't Worry!!!!!

Strewth, Cindy, if your cricket team were half as gutsy, determined and feisty as you, they might even give England a game! 

[Silvermist]

My wife is fighting tooth and nail to prevent me beginning the process of transition. I don't blame her for that. She's terrified about what will happen to her and our kids, and she's also frightened for me.

Please let me offer some brutal honesty: Your wife is NOT expressing genuine concern for you. That's not to say that she's selfish, but humans tend to be resistant to change, and that resistance can lead to resentment directed at the agent of the change. What does she fear will happen to herself and your children? They're just bystanders. I can't imagine that anything truly bad will happen to them other than being judged. Why should anyone live in fear of being judged?

When I came out to my mother, she said the same things: that she was afraid of a disastrous result (i.e., a bizarro mix of masculine and feminine that nobody would accept) and that all men who try to be women look like ridiculous caricatures to her. (I have a hard time taking the latter point at face value because, knowing how little exposure she has to the real world, I think that she was probably talking about ultra-femme gay guys, not MTFs.) She was trying to say that she feared for me, didn't want me to be rejected by society. (This in itself was offensive to me as it came from the mouth of someone who was emotionally abusive and neglectful during my entire childhood and adolescence.) In actuality, she was just expressing her prejudice and trying to emotionally manipulate me to submit to her will.

Emotional manipulation is absolutely disgusting. You have to question how much people really care for you if they resort to that. They fill you with unfounded fears and present themselves as the ones who are looking out for your best interests. Talk to any mental health professional or social worker, and you would be told that this is a form of emotional abuse.

What makes for a "real" woman? Go to a Walmart, and you'll see women of ALL shapes, sizes, voices, and behaviors. (More upscale places won't do because there tends to be much less variation among people in higher income brackets.) That's a sure way to expand the boundaries of your (or anyone's) definition of womanhood. Can you honestly say that most MTFs would be horribly out of place among the women that you'd see at Walmart?

To define criteria for "real" women is SEXIST and dehumanizing. Where do you draw the lines? Name any trait that you think disqualifies someone from being a "real" woman, and you'll find cis women who have that trait. So then are you going to tell them that they are not "real" women?

There's a human cognitive quirk that makes people see things that are not there, especially when told to look for something. Please take a look at this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradolia

During the time that I spent pondering the possibility of transition before I started it, I tested myself to see if I could read women whom I knew were cis as MTFs. I used pictures of celebrities. The experiment worked; in most cases, I could spot the subtly masculine or androgynous features and thus easily imagine that they were born male. All of that is to say that if you know that someone is MTF, your brain will unconsciously focus on any perceived masculinity, even though the same traits are hardly outside the realm of cis women. Yet you don't focus on those things when you're dealing with cis women.

I don't know if this would be possible, but I propose an experiment. Find two women in your area. One of them would be the most passable MTF in your opinion. The one other would be some ordinary cis woman. Then introduce them both, at the same time, to your wife as your friends. Have the cis woman talk about being trans (all BS, of course), and don't mention or give any hint that the MTF is not cis. Afterwards, see what your wife says. I predict that she'll mention how the cis woman was "obviously" trans and not say anything like that about the MTF.

As a final note, I'd like to share a point that a friend of mine made: Of course you're going to notice MTFs who don't pass. It's like toupees. When they look fine, they're unnoticeable.

[kathyk]

Your wife and mine say very similar things about passing.  JoAnn supports me in a lot of ways, but hates loosing a husband.  She has said I'll never pass, and not to wear skirts, or some nice tops because they make me look even worse.  Sometimes it's true, and sometimes it's just a jab at who I am.  So once in a while I buy the summer skirts, or tops, and work them into an outfit.  But then she says I'm being more feminine than her (I can't win).  After all she hated the women's jeans, shorts, sandals and sneakers when I started.  Now that I'm full-time she insists that my timing was way off, and the old men's clothes should have been saved.   

Do I pass?  No, but as Cindy said "Who gives a ->-bleeped-<-."   Passing is only one aspect of transition, while what's proven more important is self esteem, confidence, and most of all, loving the woman inside.  Some girls are incredibly lucky and have killer beauty, but even they go through the same issues in transition (We all do).  Yeah I envy the beautiful girls in some ways, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't love myself, or live as the real me.  And through it all I still have issues, but I work on them.  Pass or not.

Above all, take care of yourself the way you see fit.
Hugs, Kathy

[Sammy]

My ex said that I will turn out as an ugly woman and what I am doing now is destroying my nice body.
My mother made similar vagues comments, reflecting upon her past experience, but failing to be specific when I asked for details. But my mother is a whole different story - she is an expert in everything, she will criticise everything and everyone and her opinion is in long term the only correct one.

[Jenna Marie]

Another thing is that passing does not equal beautiful; the vast majority of cis women aren't stand-out beautiful either, after all. It probably means looking ordinary, but female. (Actually, one drop-dead gorgeous trans woman I know wishes she *were* more ordinary, because she stands out, and once people start staring at her... they're more likely to clock her.)

[Heather]

My ex said that I will turn out as an ugly woman and what I am doing now is destroying my nice body.

Last fall my mom said the same thing. She doesn't say that anymore. Just because you look a certain way now doesn't mean you'll stay that way trust me on that! 

[Sammy]

Last fall my mom said the same thing. She doesn't say that anymore. Just because you look a certain way now doesn't mean you'll stay that way trust me on that! 

Sure But it was kinda bad thing to hear :/

[Pia Bianca]

So I come back to the question ... based on your personal experiences of yourselves and others, are we kidding ourselves, or can we really just transition, find our true selves, be accepted as women and get on with our lives?

I'd say yes, we can. But I seem to have the same fears as you do.

I know I pass. All 5'11" of me.

You are that tall? I'm the same size and thought my size would surely expose me. I'm so happy to have read that!

As a final note, I'd like to share a point that a friend of mine made: Of course you're going to notice MTFs who don't pass. It's like toupees. When they look fine, they're unnoticeable.

That means you think so much MTF don't pass because you don't really know how many actually pass?

and once people start staring at her... they're more likely to clock her.)

Okay, that's a good point.

[Heather]

Sure But it was kinda bad thing to hear :/

My response to her at the time was "your probably right" So yeah it does hurt to hear it. But the truth is I didn't set out on this journey thinking I was going to pass. I just didn't want to spend the rest of my life trapped in a lie. 

[Jess42]

Sometimes when someone wants something so bad like a little family unit, they will fight tooth and nail to keep that little unit together. No matter the cost. I have been in a similar situation in which I sacrificed myself to the point of mental problems for a little family unit, with no kids involved at least. I hit a wall in which I had no more to give of myself. Then I started thinking more of myself and my happiness, which I had neglected to do over the years, and I layed down ultimatums. I tried to show that what I wanted and what I felt was just as legitament and her feelings, wants, desires and so on. Well... Sometimes people are selfish and do want it all but I won't go into that. What I'm trying to say is sacrificing for your family is fine but make sure you don't sacrifice yourself to the point you have no more self. Compromising is a much better in a family, no matter over what situation. You can make up your mind and try to make her understand but be prepared for a negative outcome, and if it is positive just be thankful.

As for being able to pass, who cares as long as you are happy with who you are?

[Carlita]

Sometimes when someone wants something so bad like a little family unit, they will fight tooth and nail to keep that little unit together. No matter the cost. I have been in a similar situation in which I sacrificed myself to the point of mental problems for a little family unit, with no kids involved at least. I hit a wall in which I had no more to give of myself. Then I started thinking more of myself and my happiness, which I had neglected to do over the years, and I layed down ultimatums. I tried to show that what I wanted and what I felt was just as legitament and her feelings, wants, desires and so on. Well... Sometimes people are selfish and do want it all but I won't go into that. What I'm trying to say is sacrificing for your family is fine but make sure you don't sacrifice yourself to the point you have no more self. Compromising is a much better in a family, no matter over what situation. You can make up your mind and try to make her understand but be prepared for a negative outcome, and if it is positive just be thankful.

As for being able to pass, who cares as long as you are happy with who you are?

See that nail? You just hit it on the head.

I said to my wife, we bring our children up to be tolerant and free of prejudice, so why doesn't that apply to me? How come everyone else has to be treated with respect for who and what they are, but when it's a member of the family, suddenly that all goes out the window?

I have two grown-up daughters, age 23 and 25. the younger one is training to be a doctor, so she's used to dealing with all kinds of physical and psychological conditions. I'd love to be able to discuss my gender issues with them because I think they should know who their father really is, and also it would explain an awful lot of stuff that's gone on in our family that they have misunderstood, simply because they never knew the truth. My wife says that's just being selfish on my part and burdening them with my problems. I can see her point: they've both got plenty to deal with in their own lives without having to cope with my ->-bleeped-<-.

But at what point can I stop lying and pretending? At what point does it actually become better just to tell the truth??