Insane subject

[jossef-ftm]

Ok i was searching in the net about some suplement that help increase testosterone cause i'm in natural transitioning and i found a crazy subject in a site,they were talking about increase T with ur mind ok i know this is crazy and you say you can't just sit and imagine u have high T and u will got it ..but i just will tell u what i read and i want ur opinions ..
medicaly you can increase 20% to 30% and more of ur Testosterone Through Mental Attitude, Competition, Winning and Sexual Anticipation..you have to think... not just think, u have to believe inside that u have a high T , this thing is exactly like law of attraction but this time its not about money or love its about ur hormones,you have to put that blieve in ur mind and believe it like''i'm so manly and my T is so high ''and that's unaware will happen..ok i know most of u guys r already on T but i cant have it and search everywhere to anything can help ,anyway i'm waiting ur replies , i hope the subject is real this time,cause my hopes r really high now..

[insideontheoutside]

I do believe that thought is powerful, but I wouldn't put all your hope into something that's based off something similar to the Law of Attraction (which the creators of have pretty much been proven to be frauds).

Work out a lot, eat a healthy diet, have more orgasms ... these things can actually boost T levels even in females.

The working out is key, but you have to be dedicated. Plenty of female athletes have awesome bodies and I don't think they take any hormones (Martina Strutz, Marit Bjørgen, Aneta Van Horn ... and many others).

[Soren]

Apparently the term "natural transition" is copyrighted or whatever, so you might want to change your wording on that so you don't get in trouble. Two, the thing with mental use to change things can be very disheartening, as, according to people who claim they can do it, if there is even the slightest tiniest shred of doubt, it won't work. That way if it doesn't work, they can tell people that they didn't believe enough. Just bare that in mind, and know that even if you do believe 110%, you should still eat right and exercise, since it doesn't really matter how high your T is if you sit around all day eating cheetos.

[Jamie D]

Thanks, Soren.  Yes, it's trademarked.  And these topics are going over to the HRT board.

[Jack_M]

The placebo effect is real, the results are marginal and pretty useless for female bodies though. Just in terms of range, even a 100% increase it isn't going to get you near the male range so 20-30% is nothing. You'd get increases like that just with spikes when exercising.

Jossef, save your money and use it to get out of where you are into an acceptable part of the world where you can get the real thing. Maybe there's somewhere you can go on holiday and stay on refugee status.  Taking the supplements folk do for this process is NOT safe. It can damage your liver.  People should only do it with their doctor knowing and monitoring them.

[harlee]

I'm pretty interested in this sort of thing and I think that you could make changes if you truly believed it The hard part is believing 100%, you have to have no doubt! There has been research done on real medication vs. placebo medication which proves how powerful the mind really is! There have been some women who have had all the symptoms of a pregnancy because they really believed they were pregnant. There have been people who have had their organs stop working because they really believed they weren't going to live much longer.

[Jack_M]

But no one is going to get male T levels just with the power of belief. Placebo gets you so far within the limits of your body. If your body has the means to fight infection and you believe that it can, it boosts the immune system. But with T you can believe all you like but the body just doesn't have the means to produce enough T. If there was a study of FTM pre-T VS CIS females, I'd bet that T levels were found, on average, to be higher for FTM. Most find they have fairly high levels already when going for the blood tests before starting.

The placebo effect is in the mind boosting what the body is capable of. If the body has the means, a placebo will boost the effect. But, if the body doesn't have the means, it's not going to happen. A person who needs a heart transplant can believe with all their heart (no pun intended) that they'll survive, and that belief can indeed help them survive longer, but it can't fix their heart, without an actual new heart they're not going to survive. The exact same applies to T.

The evidence for that is all around us here. It's why FTMs need T if they want to go that far. For many of us we've felt like we should have been boys from the get go, at that point the placebo effect is 100% engaged because we don't know any better. We can want our bodies to be male 100%, and yet that belief and denial that we're female won't stop puberty. Frankly the placebo effect has already happened to the highest degree possible, now there is undeniable doubt so it's not as strong an effect now.

[insideontheoutside]

Perhaps a fully engaged placebo effect combined with a fully engaged workout program might get more noticeable results? At least more than doing nothing, although it will always be less than chemical enhancement.

[Vicky]

On another site I visit from time to time, this subject ended up going from HRT to the spirituality forum, since it is a belief system of sorts.  Much of our transition can be accomplished without use of hormones by having a good attitude that is focused, and that is affirmed on a daily basis.  I know of people who have done wonders as far as appearance goes, and have taken only a multivitamin a couple of times a week.  We do not absolutely need cross gender hormones to finish a social transition if we think we can do.  We can make improvements in our social presentation without hormones, we can develop social voicing without hormones, but thats if we quit crying about how much better we will be If and ONLY IF we get the 'mones. 

The people I know who have transitioned without the scripted hormones still have the hormones of their birth assigned sex, but will be some of the most attractive members of the opposite gender.  They never care what their hormone levels and types are, they are just busy living and enjoying life.

[Jack_M]

It depends on what you want.  I know from other posts that Jossef wants to be rid of shark week, have facial hair and have a more masculine body, etc. 

If you want only a teeny transition, it may (but not definitely) work, and can take months to years and a crap load of money to get there.  It's just if you want what you get on T, well, the only way is T unfortunately.  I'd rather Jossef gets to a safe place and use his money to make that happen than spend it all on the potential for a tiny transition that's just not going to cut it for him anyway.

[insideontheoutside]

It depends on what you want.  I know from other posts that Jossef wants to be rid of shark week, have facial hair and have a more masculine body, etc. 

If you want only a teeny transition, it may (but not definitely) work, and can take months to years and a crap load of money to get there.  It's just if you want what you get on T, well, the only way is T unfortunately.  I'd rather Jossef gets to a safe place and use his money to make that happen than spend it all on the potential for a tiny transition that's just not going to cut it for him anyway.

If that's not possible for him for the foreseeable future though, then what?

Jossef - I hope you can actually get out of your country one day and get the full medical treatment, but in the meantime, my advice is to just be realistic and do what you can to get by, don't buy loads of supplements, and like Jack_M says, save money if you can to afford getting out.

[Jack_M]

Money wasted on a slim chance at minimal change VS saving to escape somewhere where they kill people for being different? 

That's how I view this. Supplements are never the answer for someone who wants actual T. If you don't want T results then the slim chance at minimal results may be enough of a risk for you. Truth is results may never happen and even if minor changes did occur, it'd take a long time to get there, a lot of money, and it would never be enough for someone who wants the results one gets on T.