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Do I Look, or Could I Pass, as Female?

Started by Jamie D, July 30, 2013, 05:23:37 PM

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LordKAT

Pardon my sneaking in. I grew up with a girl who had and has a large adams apple, since junior high.
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Bardoux

Quote from: Kelly the Trans-Rebel on August 19, 2013, 04:00:41 AM
I guess that means my mother, aunt and grandmother must have all been men..

And my uncle who lacks one must be a woman..

EDIT: See what I mean about blanket statements?

Well i did say not all men have prominent adam's apples.
I stand corrected Kelly, women can also have a large prominent larynx...

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Shantel

Quote from: Kelly the Trans-Rebel on August 19, 2013, 01:40:04 AM
Really? I have a visible adams apple.. And I pass just fine - and that's not my opinion, it's my experiences..

Shan, I thought you of all people would avoid such blanket statements, I'm disappointed..

Don't waste your time being disappointed in me, I have a penchant for disappointing a lot of people, but I call it as I see it and it's just my opinion anyway so wtf huh? Anyway, there are women with prominent larynx's most notably the very obnoxious Ann Coulter, there is night and day differences between the appearance of an adam's apple and a prominent larynx to the discerning eye.
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Stella Stanhope

Shame there's some disquiet over the issue of male and female vocal chords. Shame, as no one seems to meaning to cause offence. Shantel, Kelly the Trans Rebel and Alice in Genderland are all right, you're all on the same team!

Male vocal chords tend to be larger than female vocal chords upon hitting puberty, however there is (like with other sexually diamorphic traits) the propensity for overlap. From what I've read, the female vocal chord size when at its largest is the smallest that an adult natal male's can be. I've noticed that petite or very slim women also have more visible vocal chords simply because they are skinnier around the neck.

So equally valid to say that -Having prominent vocal chords & larynx will not neccesarily "out" you as MAAB, if you happen to be within the female range and/or have many other facial attributes well within female range.

However, larger vocal chords, Adam's apple and larynx, can be seen as a masculine trait and therefore if there's any doubts to whether your a cis-female - the chords can give you away. Its definitely something that people seem to look for. Vast majority of the public WILL see larger vocals chords and become suspicious, IF there is reason to make them doubt the birth sex in the first place. This is not a generalisation either, this is what happens in practice. Doesn't have to define whether people will see you as a cis-female or not though, but it can go a long way for their basing their opinion, potentially.

Quotei heard you can have your adams apple raised up which not only hides it but also increases the pitch of your voice

That's very intriguing Lucy! Never heard of that before. Please do tell... :-)
There are no more barriers to cross... But even after admitting this, there is no catharsis... I gain no deeper knowledge of myself. No new knowledge can be extracted from my telling. This confession has meant nothing.

When you find yourself hopelessly stuck between the floors of gender - you make yourself at home in the lift.
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Jennygirl

I tend to think of it this way (everyone's going to be different, though): if I already had a number of subtle masculine traits going on (visible adam's apple, shoulder/hip ratio, hand size, brow ridge, jawline, etc) then I feel the need to correct as many glaring issues as I can within reason.

These things add up to how someone genders you (on an individual level). So, if you only have a subtle amount of masculine features elsewhere, getting the T shave might be all that you need to tip the scales.

It's a wonderful procedure for those like me who had a VERY prominent adam's apple. Even if they don't take all of it away and there is still a slight lump there it's okay, the most important thing is changing the angle of the adam's apple from 90deg to 120deg.
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GorJess

Blah, I'm pretty sure I blend in as just another woman, looks-wise, but not sure if yes, no, fab thread, etc. Just under 9.5 months HRT lying in bed on holiday/vacation in Canada, so just my bare face, as I was home all today. Please don't quote the image or link to said photo, but feel more than free to respond. :) Thanks! (Last I checked, this is an allowable request, right?)

http://tinypic.com/r/mbqovl/5
You are here in order to enable the world to live more amply, with greater vision, with a finer spirit of hope and achievement. You are here to enrich the world. -Woodrow Wilson





With Dr. Marci Bowers in San Mateo
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Jamie D

Quote from: Bardoux on August 19, 2013, 03:36:12 AM
But Kelly, women don't have an adam's apple. That's not to say all man have prominent or visible adam's apples but if someone was to look closely for whatever reason, seeing an adam's apple settles the matter that you were born male.

The "laryngeal prominence" is a "lump or protrusion [in the human neck] that is formed by the angle of the thyroid cartilage surrounding the larynx."

In many natal males it is considered a secondary sexual characteristic, which appears during puberty.  It is primarily composed of cartilage. 

I don't have one (MAAB).  Natal women have them too, but they are far less noticeable.
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ashley_thomas

Quote from: Jennygirl on August 19, 2013, 02:43:46 PM
I tend to think of it this way (everyone's going to be different, though): if I already had a number of subtle masculine traits going on (visible adam's apple, shoulder/hip ratio, hand size, brow ridge, jawline, etc) then I feel the need to correct as many glaring issues as I can within reason.

These things add up to how someone genders you (on an individual level). So, if you only have a subtle amount of masculine features elsewhere, getting the T shave might be all that you need to tip the scales.

It's a wonderful procedure for those like me who had a VERY prominent adam's apple. Even if they don't take all of it away and there is still a slight lump there it's okay, the most important thing is changing the angle of the adam's apple from 90deg to 120deg.

pretty much 100% on point.  It's about the totality of your appearance and presentation.  As a talk girl, I will certain get a tracheal shave because its doable and since dropping 4 inches is not
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Danielle Emmalee

Someone post a picture and get us back on topic!
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
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GorJess

I did, hehe, eagerly awaiting a response, one for interest, the other to do just that. I feel so yucky lately, and feel I look like a freak...
You are here in order to enable the world to live more amply, with greater vision, with a finer spirit of hope and achievement. You are here to enrich the world. -Woodrow Wilson





With Dr. Marci Bowers in San Mateo
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Bardoux

Jess of course you don't look like a freak! I wouldn't want anyone to ever think of themselves like that.

I think it's more the angle of the photo but it seems to make your chin and jawline more prominent than it actually is? Judging from your avatar pic you really have not much of a problem in that area, so as i say it's more like the angle. I'm also seeing a faint shadow above your top lip? These two things taken together makes you look more androgynous than outright female. I know that feeling!

Please do not less this dishearten you in anyway. I think you look great in your avatar pic!!
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Jamie D

Quote from: Jesstrogen on August 19, 2013, 08:05:44 PM
Blah, I'm pretty sure I blend in as just another woman, looks-wise, but not sure if yes, no, fab thread, etc. Just under 9.5 months HRT lying in bed on holiday/vacation in Canada, so just my bare face, as I was home all today. Please don't quote the image or link to said photo, but feel more than free to respond. :) Thanks! (Last I checked, this is an allowable request, right?)


Given that you are just "slumming," and not trying to look feminine, you look pretty feminine.
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Allison

Want to get back on topic? Just wondering you think I will pass or? I mean socially and vocally I do; but it's my physical appearance that worries me. I don't much care about my forehead I have my mommy's forehead so that makes me happy that I know another woman with my forehead. For reference I'm 5'10; and I have been taking better care of my hair recently and it's more full.



Hooray for button nose!
You know I'd rather say nothing; and just be proud of myself for tearing down these walls.
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Danielle Emmalee

Quote from: Allison on August 21, 2013, 11:25:20 PM
Want to get back on topic? Just wondering you think I will pass or? I mean socially and vocally I do; but it's my physical appearance that worries me. I don't much care about my forehead I have my mommy's forehead so that makes me happy that I know another woman with my forehead. For reference I'm 5'10; and I have been taking better care of my hair recently and it's more full.



Hooray for button nose!

Hard to totally tell without a better picture but you are pretty good looking so I'd be surprised if you had a lot of trouble passing even with just changing a few small things like clothes and hairstyle.
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
  •  

Allison

Quote from: Alice In Genderland on August 21, 2013, 11:37:09 PM
Hard to totally tell without a better picture but you are pretty good looking so I'd be surprised if you had a lot of trouble passing even with just changing a few small things like clothes and hairstyle.

This was roughly 2 years ago; and I haven't changed pretty much all.  This is a little more recent being from only 6 months ago; I've always hated how I looked so actual pictures of myself are scarce

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/395353_301218859937643_942518689_n.jpg

This links to higher res I guess
You know I'd rather say nothing; and just be proud of myself for tearing down these walls.
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faye

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Danielle Emmalee

Quote from: Allison on August 22, 2013, 12:10:21 AM
This was roughly 2 years ago; and I haven't changed pretty much all.  This is a little more recent being from only 6 months ago; I've always hated how I looked so actual pictures of myself are scarce

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/395353_301218859937643_942518689_n.jpg

This links to higher res I guess

You don't have a lot of overly masculine features besides the hair,clothing and pose.  You honestly will have no trouble passing with a little effort.
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
  •  

Allison

Quote from: Alice In Genderland on August 22, 2013, 01:48:38 AM
You don't have a lot of overly masculine features besides the hair,clothing and pose.  You honestly will have no trouble passing with a little effort.

Yeah my hair is usually what pegs me. When in public I tried my best to act masculine but I pretty walk feminine and just gesture femininely. My clothing is a bit of an issue considering I'm inbetween jobs at the moment and that is kinda crappy but clothing myself to match was never an issue. Thank you though <3
You know I'd rather say nothing; and just be proud of myself for tearing down these walls.
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musicofthenight

Allison, I'm gendering the first as pretty clearly male but the second as youthful-androgynous-probably-male.  Not a bad place to start. 

You're lucky to have that nose and jawline, then again you're not allowed excuses.
What do you care what other people think? ~Arlene Feynman
trans-tom / androgyne / changes profile just for fun


he... -or- she... -or (hard mode)- yo/em/er/ers
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Allison

Quote from: musicofthenight on August 22, 2013, 10:58:12 AM
Allison, I'm gendering the first as pretty clearly male but the second as youthful-androgynous-probably-male.  Not a bad place to start. 

You're lucky to have that nose and jawline, then again you're not allowed excuses.

I'm assuming they're both rather feminine?
You know I'd rather say nothing; and just be proud of myself for tearing down these walls.
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