Compounded T creams/gel dosing

[qkcam]

HI  I am new on this fourm and glad to see so much activity.
I am trying to get my test levels up  and unfortunatly with the injections  even a low dose my Hematocrit is going above normal.  (female range)  my dr isn't comfortable letting me get into the male ranges because of a situation i had years ago in a higher dose of T.      I have heard the gels are less likely to cause these side effects and have even seen in my old labs that i have gotten t levels to 400 with a "normal " rbc/ h/h.     that was on a gel that was 10% test.. and i no longer have that dr.     

one of my dr's gave me a versabase cream that is 20mg/ml so i am thinking that is a 2% cream ?      i am curious if others have tried compounded and what % was the compound?  how much did you take and what changes did you get and did it effect your RBC/H & H.     
THANKS!











Edited for dosage.

[Devlyn]

Hi Q, welcome to Susan's Place! Our members know better than to answer the question about how much they use, we don't allow dosage discussions.  Hugs, Devlyn

[aleon515]

Though I imagine you could ask the pharmacy what you have. There are also formulas where you can take ml/L and come up with the percentage. Lots of times doctors start people on t-cream on a very low dose. I was started on a super low dose. Some people seem to do very well on t-cream and others seem to have difficulty absorbing them. There are people who do their whole transitions topically so it is doable, by some people at least.

I have masculinized nicely, but think that I may go on injections later (after top surgery), since shots cause anxiety, already a bit anxious. I'm not getting body hair, but it might be that I can't as I lost it all at a certain point.

--Jay

[qkcam]

I actually like the injections they make me calm and centered..unfortunatly they are also increasing my hematocrit and rbc count too high.. and HDL  way to low  ..   i dont want to have theraputic phelbotimie's very everyother month.   

glad you are coming along in your transition.     

[aleon515]

I feel calm and centered on the cream. It's not the method of application its the T.

--Jay

[Crow]

Although I can't discuss dosage, I have been on all three forms (gel, cream, and injectable) and can share a bit on my experiences. My body has absorbed the injectable exponentially better, but if injectable is causing you issues for whatever reason, I highly recommend gel over cream. I started out with gel and them switched to cream for insurance reasons during my first year of HRT. I was getting slow but noticable changes on gel, including my menstrual cycle nearly or completely stopping, but when I switched to cream, the changes slowed down to virtually nonexistent, to the point where my menstrual cycle actually came BACK and my bloodwork was coming back with significantly lower T levels than the gel, despite being on the same dose. Obviously your mileage may vary, but just be aware that not all topical T is made equal.

[aleon515]

The thing about the compounding cream is, that it is probably hard to compare them. Unless they are compounded by the same company. The carrier might matter. Also maybe they could work for one person and not another. I am pretty sure that some people can't absorb the carrier so well. OF the 5 of us I know on T cream one is out of state and he is doing very amazingly, probably faster than most people. Two are really transitioned and completely male looking and never took injections. And yet another one, his changes are rather similar to mine. He has had had more muscle build up and hair growth and less facial masculinazation. I am guessing he is a lot younger. The guys here all go to the same compounding pharmacy.

My changes are good. My voice is really down and my larynx has grown; I've had muscle development; lower growth; and significant facial changes.  But I don't know if I might get some hair growth on the injections, but since the shots make me anxious I am going to wait til after top surgery, because that's already making me anxious. My doctor has suggested that maybe I might do a little better with injections with the hair growth.  I actually lost hair (not on my head) when I got older, so unlike the other folks I didn't have anything to start with.

I've heard of several people who say they got no changes on the t-cream or t-gel and don't know too many who have transitioned completely. But then I don't know if the two people were much more patient than other people, could be from what I know of them.


--Jay

[qkcam]

thanks everyone for your input.
i am curious was the gel a compounded gel..  and although we can't talk about dosing.. can we talk about the compounded formulation?  for example   100mg/per ml or 20mg per ml?     for instance  i had gel before that was 100mg/ml  and now am with the cream at 20mg/per ml  but it is  a "versabase" so that is supposed to have better absorption-        and i am not stating my actual "dose" being how much i take  of this..  i am just needing to know what is / if there is a usual  ..    i am not quite sure how to convert these comparing to androgel or testim.       

thanks!  hope this question is a ok.

[qkcam]

oh  another thing i thought of is  what levels of free and total folks getting?   it seems to me the higher my levels have been in the past the more changes i have ..but also higher red blood count.     at the low dose of im injections i was getting only total test of 200 and free of about 60.         

i also have recently heard that "versabase" is toxic. so i may need to find another pharmacy-    this is overwhelming..  thanks

[aleon515]

The stuff I take says gel, but the consistency is clearly a cream. I think of a gel as translucent and it tends to be slippery and a cream is white. I don't know what it is actually. I used to get it at another pharmacy and it smelled like Jergen's hand cream this has a bit different smell to it. You can look up the formula for ml/L or you can call the pharmacy. Generally people talk about t-cream in terms of percentages.

I can't even figure out what versabase is. I could not find out if it was toxic or not. The only kinds of questions I saw were if something that was the active ingredient in a versabase prep were toxic. It's obviously a different question.

The creams can be higher percentage than the gels which are standardized for low T cis-men (and in some cases post menopausal women). Most of the creams are packaged with a small teaspoon type measure, but I have seen syringes and little plastic applicators. I was heard that the best sites of application are not hairy and thin and lots of capillaries  vs fatty areas like the stomach. (My pharmacy said inside of the forearms.) I think if you have a partner they would tell you to use a different area.



--Jay

[qkcam]

thanks Jay
someone sent me this info about what is in versabase .
i also talked to the pharmacists as you suggested about how much am i actually getting with an rx that says  20mg/ml   and he said it is just take.   and basically 1 ml = 1 gram.   i mentioned i thought  the absorption was only about 10%  and he said that isn't correct.       who knows
he also said he has never worked with TG before but that my dose.. which i can't mention is  much larger than anything he has seen for a female.     and if i am truly absorbing the 20mg /ml  than it seems high even for male.    so i am confused.   i guess labs will tell.     
he didnt think it would make a difference with my hematrocit levels  .. said test is test and it will most likely have the same effect on my blood  once my levels get up again.  so i dont know what the heck to do. and am feeling really disapointed.     below is the list of versabase ingredinets

Versabase Ingredients

score data gap concerns
METHYLISOTHIAZOLINONE 6 63% Allergies/immunotoxicity, Use restrictions
METHYLCHLOROISOTHIAZOLINONE 6 63% Allergies/immunotoxicity, Use restrictions
EMULSIFYING WAX 4 99% Miscellaneous
TOCOPHERYL ACETATE 4 81% Allergies/immunotoxicity, Contamination concerns (HYDROQUINONE)
CYCLOPENTASILOXANE 2 79% Persistence and bioaccumulation
DISODIUM EDTA 3 78% Neurotoxicity, Organ system toxicity (non-reproductive), Enhanced skin absorption
SORBITOL 1 88% None Identified
ETHYLHEXYL STEARATE 1 87% Irritation (skin, eyes, or lungs)
ALOE BARBADENSIS (ALOE VERA) GEL
ALOE BARBADENSIS LEAF JUICE 1 72% None Identified

[LordKAT]

1 ml is not 1 gram. ml is a measure of volume while gram is a measure of weight. It may be true for some substances but the 2 do not really measure the same.

[aleon515]

thanks Jay
someone sent me this info about what is in versabase .
i also talked to the pharmacists as you suggested about how much am i actually getting with an rx that says  20mg/ml   and he said it is just take.   and basically 1 ml = 1 gram.   i mentioned i thought  the absorption was only about 10%  and he said that isn't correct.       who knows
he also said he has never worked with TG before but that my dose.. which i can't mention is  much larger than anything he has seen for a female.     and if i am truly absorbing the 20mg /ml  than it seems high even for male.    so i am confused.   i guess labs will tell.     
he didnt think it would make a difference with my hematrocit levels  .. said test is test and it will most likely have the same effect on my blood  once my levels get up again.  so i dont know what the heck to do. and am feeling really disapointed.     below is the list of versabase ingredinets

Thanks for info on versabase. I don't know the base of what I take actually. Or what to make of the above as I am sure toxicity is dosage related. Looks like the stuff in hand cream really. Since it is a compounding pharmacy, they should be able to put the T in some other type of preparation though. This is what they are known for actually. Are you allergic to something? Ok they'll put it in something else. Of course your dose SHOULD be higher than any female takes! And of course probably than most cis-males would ever take. What counts is whether your levels of T in your blood are toxic.


1 milliliter is not equal to 1 gram. Gram is a measure of weight and milliliter is a measure of volume. Not even apples to oranges, maybe apples to baskets. So you would have to think about how much a certain quantity of stuff weights by the the volume. (Oil is heavier than water for instance.) There are formulas for figuring out how many ml/L or something like that and you come up with the percentage. Pretty sure I did that in chemistry.

The absorption is probably not 10%, probably even varies by the person, and most likely by the preparation.

--Jay

[Sarah Louise]

This topic is getting dangerously close to discussing dosages and is better answered by a physician.

Locking thread until further review by Administration.