A Friend Who Doesn't Get It

[sigmafan]

I have a girlfriend who is trans and is currently in Wisconsin visiting her son.  On her wall, she posted a photo of her, her ex and her son.  I should not that in Wisconsin, especially around the kid, she has to present in "guy mode" because her ex is schitzophrenic, and has full parental rights to the child, while the girlfriend has none.  When a photo was posted on her wall, a gay friend of mine who's a hardcore Kinsey 6 and all that made the comment "are they not letting you be around your son in drag? is his mommy jealous of him having a photo with his other 'mommy'?"  Needless to say, this made her extremely furious.  I get it in the neck when I bluntly said that she blocked him because you basically called her "Nothing more than a guy in drag". 

After that, I wake up to 6 messages of him saying that my girlfriend isn't a girl and that she's a guy who suffers from  ->-bleeped-<-.  His argument falls completely apart when he references as one of his facts a crappy diatribe from Gender Trender, which I gather from a quick google search and a few friends that it's nothing more than an anti-trans site, as well as another couple articles that are garbage as well.  After talking to a friend from UNC who's also trans and is getting a Masters for Sociology noted that "some gays and lesbians are transphobic because they fear that their existance invalidates their purpose".  I trust her more than the guy.

I'm just having trouble coming up with a good response that he'll understand. 

[Adam (birkin)]

I don't think his ignorance deserves a response. I think you did the right thing in standing up for your gf and blocking him, but as for educating him, he doesn't sound open to it, you know? It's one thing when someone says something ignorant and you call them out, and they reconsider their position., It's another when you call them out and they go find websites that support what they believe instead of trying to understand why what they said was wrong.

[Athena]

Possibly say "You are putting me in a position that I have to choose between friends, do you really want to force me to choose? "

[JillSter]

It's one thing when someone says something ignorant and you call them out, and they reconsider their position., It's another when you call them out and they go find websites that support what they believe instead of trying to understand why what they said was wrong.

That's the truth.

I find it sickening that your "friend" felt the need to denigrate your girlfriend. Regardless of whether he sees her as a man or a woman, she's special to you and your so-called friend doesn't seem to care. He sounds like one of those people who's more interested in being "right" than knowing the truth. The fact that he felt compelled to "prove" it to you just blows my mind. Does this guy eat puppies too?

Sometimes you have to define what a friend is and then apply it to the person in question. See if they make the cut. And if not, you're better off without them.

If it were me, my response would be brief. Two words. And he'd know exactly how I feel.

I'm sorry. It sucks to have a friend suddenly turn on you like that. But it sounds like his true colors are showing, and you would be wise to take a good look at them.

[dalebert]

I don't think his ignorance deserves a response. I think you did the right thing in standing up for your gf and blocking him, but as for educating him, he doesn't sound open to it, you know?

The response in this case seems appropriate. This guy seems more concerned with being right even if it means really hurting someone he claims to care about. And I suspect that if you actually tried to have a calm, rational discussion about the facts, he would show a pretty strong bias toward believing what he wants to believe because it makes him more comfortable despite objective evidence to the contrary.

That said, I feel uneasy about the statement in the broader sense, particularly this part:

It's one thing when someone says something ignorant and you call them out, and they reconsider their position., It's another when you call them out and they go find websites that support what they believe instead of trying to understand why what they said was wrong.

Because that's the nature of debate. Typically both sides in a debate believe themselves to be right. I would be cautious about applying this tactic in general because the way we change people's minds is by having discussions using facts and solid science. Lots of people will continue to disagree for a while but ultimately change their minds.

His mind might be more open to reasoned debate if he realizes that he's going to lose a friend over his pig-headedness, but I think in general we need to use ostracism tactics very sparingly so that we don't get rightly accused of using it as a kind of censorship. I feel like the facts as well as the logic and common sense are on our side. We shouldn't be afraid of discussion or else we're just as guilty of close-mindedness. Truth stands up to scrutiny.

[dalebert]

Brief off-topic: I love your avatar, Jillian! My avatar on most of the other forums I visit is Archer from the first episode when he's tied up. I feel he represents my Id (right now). I haven't decided on who represents my Super Ego. I'll give that some thought.

[JillSter]

We shouldn't be afraid of discussion or else we're just as guilty of close-mindedness.

I suppose that's true too. *eats crow*

But I think people's minds are usually changed through personal experience and getting to know someone from the group they're disparaging. This is a social issue, which is a lot harder to debate. This sort of thing relies more on your gut and how you feel than facts and statistics. If the friend knows the girlfriend personally, and still treats her this way, is he really that great a friend?

Brief off-topic: I love your avatar, Jillian! My avatar on most of the other forums I visit is Archer from the first episode when he's tied up. I feel he represents my Id (right now). I haven't decided on who represents my Super Ego. I'll give that some thought.

Thanks!

I love Archer! It's one of the funniest shows ever imo. Lana is so amazingly badass and cool, I had to let her represent me. She's a good influence on me.

[big kim]

A 2 word response would be appropriate,the first one starts with F,the second with Y