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How We All Betrayed Bradley Manning

Started by Amelia Pond, August 19, 2013, 01:39:01 PM

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Amelia Pond

How We All Betrayed Bradley Manning
Urizenus Sklar, 08/16/2013 3:33 pm

How we all failed him, and there is plenty of fail to go around...

First, we failed Bradley when we allowed him to be born into a society that could not properly educate his parents or take care of their substance abuse problems. It failed him when it forced an innocent kid like that with severe developmental and psychological problems to be raised in abject poverty for much of his life.

We failed him when we structured our education system so that the only way someone as bright but as poor as Manning could go to college was via the GI Bill.

There aren't just liberal tropes of failure here. The failure of the family is a real thing and his father failed him badly...

The military of course failed him on many levels. The first issue had to do with why we were even there. But the institution of stoploss policies also played a role. People who were not suited to staying there were forced or encouraged to stay on duty when it simply was not appropriate. The DADT policy made it difficult to impossible for Bradley to seek out help.
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Ltl89

Did we also fail him by making him recklessly release over 700,000 classified documents and ignoring the proper channels (the Military Whistleblower Protection Act) while knowing full well that his act would have major repercussions?  Or maybe he failed himself and us by breaking the law and putting the country at risk by so carelessly realising classified information without knowing the full extent of the political and tactical implications his leaks could have had.  While I don't think the wikileaks material did any harm and I'm glad some of that info is out there, let's not pretend this guy sat there and read each one of these documents.  He acted recklessly and could have hurt us in a serious way if he did release something more sensitive.  Vigilante justice is dangerous and we shouldn't laud someone who thinks they were in the position to be the sole arbitrator of justice.  He isn't the hero that everyone is making him out to be and it's tiresome to see everyone defend him as a whistleblower when he failed to even attempt blowing the whistle.  Instead he just uploaded, without a thought, everything he could get his hands on. 

Having said that, as a hippie leftist, I'm very in favor of transparency and glad we are aware of some of the information (especially the apache video).  Despite his recklessness, he did want to do the right thing and hoped to make change for the better.  I sympathize with his views and feel for his core message. I don't want him to go to jail for 90 year and I feel bad for the guy in general.  Personally, I find Obama's love for the Espionage act a very discouraging.  But his tactics were risky and we can't ignore that acts like this are potentially dangerous and shouldn't be encouraged.  How about we as a nation talk about the reform of whistleblower protection laws and have a conversation on that instead of promoting vigilante justice as heroic. 
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JessicaH

I find it sad when people look for excuses to blame others for their bad decisions or behavior. He knowingly committed espionage and regardless of any mistakes in his chain of command that failed to stop him, he alone bears the responsibility of his actions and I refuse to give him any sort of "pass" because he had gender issues. 

The incidence of ->-bleeped-<- is 4x higher in the military than in the general public and most of us served with distinction and honor so I'm not that sympathetic to his problems. If he had been drafted, I'd definitely be more sympathetic but he joined of his own free will and should have just "sucked it up" and performed the job he asked for.

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Michelle-G

I just ain't buying it.  Broken though the system may be, Manning made his own choices and he knew the consequences of those choices before he made them.  Tough noogies.
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gennee

Bradley Manning did the right thing and reported abuses. Shooting at unarmed civilians is a crime. The Obama Adminstration has busted more whistleblowers  than anyone in history. This has nothing to do with national security. It is about how the military industrial complex can get away with anything, including murder.

I served three years in the military and with distinction. We still use waterboarding as torture (which is illegal according to the Geneva Convention). What America has become is a fascist country run by corporations with the politicians doing all their bidding.
Be who you are.
Make a difference by being a difference.   :)

Blog: www.difecta.blogspot.com
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Ltl89

Quote from: gennee on August 21, 2013, 08:22:36 PM
Bradley Manning did the right thing and reported abuses. Shooting at unarmed civilians is a crime. The Obama Adminstration has busted more whistleblowers  than anyone in history. This has nothing to do with national security. It is about how the military industrial complex can get away with anything, including murder.

I served three years in the military and with distinction. We still use waterboarding as torture (which is illegal according to the Geneva Convention). What America has become is a fascist country run by corporations with the politicians doing all their bidding.


He didn't report it.  He leaked it.  He ignored the proper channels and broke the law.  I'm of a mixed opinion of Manning  because I'm glad some of the information he released came to surface.  I just think recklessly releasing 700,000 documents isn't something to be cheered about.  Let's pretend he knew or analysed everything he leaked.  Still, I do think there needs to be reform of whistle blower laws and I hate that he is getting punished so harshly.  In some ways he did a "good" thing, but unfortunately he broke the law and released it in a reckless manner.

I hate some of the practices of the U.S Government and you won't find a bigger critic of the military industrial complex than me.  There is plenty of corruption to go around and its sickening.  But the U.S is far from a fascist regime.  I think to compare us to such a system does a great disservice to those who lived under those horrors and belittles the freedoms that we have in this country.  If we lived in a fascist country, you wouldn't be given any rights as a transgender person.  It's fair to criticise the government, but lets be realistic. 

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Ltl89

By the way, I should note that I don't believe he should be condemned to prison for 35 years.  While leaking classified information can cause major harm, it didn't in this particular case.  There is a lesson to be learned here about the importance of these laws but also the need for whistleblower reform (especially in the military).  And I think these lessons can be absorbed without destroying his life.  His attorney is going to petition the White House to pardon him.  Despite my disagreement with some of his tactics, I will be signing it as I don't believe he should waste his life in a cell and believe some good came from the leaks.  If you truly believe he deserves freedom, I suggest you do the same; otherwise he awaits parole in 7 years. 
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Ms. OBrien CVT

Leaking information during a time of war is treason, which is punishable by death.  Granted the information that he leaked were horrendous, and possible war crimes.  But still he is lucky to get off with 35 years.

Should he be pardoned?  No, because the next person will leak more devastating information that cost hundreds of thousands of American lives.  But he should have to serve some time.  And of course be dishonorable discharged.  This is all covered under the UCMJ.

  
It does not take courage or bravery to change your gender.  It takes fear of living one more day in the wrong one.~me
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Ltl89

Quote from: Ms. OBrien CVT on August 21, 2013, 09:12:16 PM
Should he be pardoned?  No, because the next person will leak more devastating information that cost hundreds of thousands of American lives.  But he should have to serve some time.  And of course be dishonorable discharged.  This is all covered under the UCMJ.

I respect that opinion.  This case is not about what happened but what could have happened.  There is good reason for us to have laws which protect sensitive information.  I just don't think the guy deserves to spend 35 years in prison.  Despite the fact that the leaks could have hurt us, it didn't in actuality.  And the sad thing is that the Military Protection Act is fairly broken.  It annoys me to know end that he ignored the proper channels and released whatever he could, but some of the things he uncovered should have been out there and likely would have never seen the light even if he tried.  I believe it's important to judge everything on a case by case basis.  I think the next important step as a nation is to discuss the importance of the laws which protect classified information and debate the importance of reforming Whistleblower laws so there is proper recourse for those who want to expose illegal or questionable activities that is marked as classfied. 
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Jamie D

The author of the article is full of crap.  What about personal responsibility?  What about right and wrong?

I did not betray Bradly Manning; Bradley Manning betrayed me.
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Ltl89

Quote from: Jamie D on August 21, 2013, 10:43:12 PM
The author of the article is full of crap.  What about personal responsibility?  What about right and wrong?

I did not betray Bradly Manning; Bradley Manning betrayed me.

Well, I think it's about time you confess your role in the leaks.  Let's be honest, you did betray Manning when you framed him! :o

dun du du.  CONSPIRACY!!! ;)

Or maybe you are right and Manning is responsible for his own actions........ oh I'm being silly, that would be crazy. 

Seriously, I've made my feelings clear on this enough case.  Let's just avoid comparing Obama to Hitler or Stalin and the U.S to a totalitarian regime.  It really doesn't do any justice for those who were forced to live under the most oppressive and horrible conditions.  Our country has it's problems and there are many things in need of reform, but no one should ever compare us to something like totalitarianism considering the amount of freedoms and opportunities we have when compared to those those sort of regimes.  It's far from perfect, but nothing like that.   
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Miss Jill Thorn

Bradley Manning is guilty and he knows it ,as an soldier he was given an security clearance which carries an respondsibilty and he violated that also he made an oath when he entered into service to his country , no he betrayed his country,us and himself and to take it one step further he hurt every soldier who fought,served and those who made the ultimate sacarfice. Such a sad thing it hurt soo many this is how Miss Jill feels ( hurt and betrayed)
:-* :-*
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MaidofOrleans

Quote from: Miss Jill Thorn on August 21, 2013, 11:07:15 PM
Bradley Manning is guilty and he knows it ,as an soldier he was given an security clearance which carries an respondsibilty and he violated that also he made an oath when he entered into service to his country , no he betrayed his country,us and himself and to take it one step further he hurt every soldier who fought,served and those who made the ultimate sacarfice. Such a sad thing it hurt soo many this is how Miss Jill feels ( hurt and betrayed)

Sounds like a load of nationalist BS to me. The real sad thing is the amount of blood on our nations hands. She was only exposing crimes committed by this country and if this country didn't want to be hurt by it than they shouldn't have done them in the first place should they? I was raised to expect better from the USA.
"For transpeople, using the right pronoun is NOT simply a 'political correctness' issue. It's core to the entire struggle transpeople go through. Using the wrong pronoun means 'I don't recognize you as who you are.' It means 'I think you're confused, delusional, or mentally I'll.'. It means 'you're not important enough for me to acknowledge your struggle.'"
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gennee

We are losing our freedoms every day. The Glass-Steagall Act was removed so corporations now have free reign in the financial sector, which is a conflict of interest. Drones spy on American citizens. Habeus corpus has been done away with. If you peacefully protest, you could be put on a watchlist as a terrorist. The police department have become militarized. SWAT teams are used in areas that regular police can be sufficient. I believe that much of the terrorist threats come from the FBI. Minorities (that includes TGLB people) are being criminalized. Upon research fascists regimes used the similar tactics that is now being used here in America.
Be who you are.
Make a difference by being a difference.   :)

Blog: www.difecta.blogspot.com
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Amelia Pond

 :police:

Okay everyone, I've locked the thread because it veered off topic and turned into anti-U.S. rhetoric.

Amy
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