Bradley Manning "I am a female, Call Me Chelsea

[DriftingCrow]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/22/214440560/bradley-manning-i-am-a-female-call-me-chelsea
Mark Memmot NPR New

Bradley Manning announced that she's a woman and intends to begin HRT.

Manning will be serving her sentence at a place that doesn't provide hrt. Manning's attorney said he will find a way to make them provide Manning with hrt.

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Edit to change gender pronouns, I mistakenly thought I read NPR using "he", instead, they just avoid using pronouns.

[Anna++]

I'm really scared for her since she's in a mens prison and I wouldn't be surprised if transition ends up making her a target by the other inmates.

[AnnaSelbdritt]

I just saw this in the news and I think it's so cool. Think about the publicity around this case and the hero status She has among lots of people. I think it's pretty big news that hopefully can get a good debate going about trans* issues and human rights.
Really really hope she can get her HRT despite being in prison and all. I can't even imagine what it must be like in her shoes!

[Ltl89]

I just saw this in the news and I think it's so cool. Think about the publicity around this case and the hero status She has among lots of people. I think it's pretty big news that hopefully can get a good debate going about trans* issues and human rights.
Really really hope she can get her HRT despite being in prison and all. I can't even imagine what it must be like in her shoes!

It can go either way.  Chelsea Manning is not seen as a hero by many people and it could very well blur the progress of trans rights.  It certainly will gain traction among her supporters, but there is no telling how her detractors will handle this. 

As for hrt and srs, the military doesn't provide this to prisoners.  It will likely end up in a law suit.  This may further polarize the issue or it may gain positive coverage for trans individuals.  It's too early to tell in my opinion. 

[DriftingCrow]

It can go either way.  Chelsea Manning is not seen as a hero by many people and it could very well blur the progress of trans rights.  It certainly will gain traction among her supporters, but there is no telling how her detractors will handle this. 

As for hrt and srs, the military doesn't provide this to prisoners.  It will likely end up in a law suit.  This may further polarize the issue or it may gain positive coverage for trans individuals.  It's too early to tell in my opinion.

I agree. Many people will see this add a big waste of taxpayer dollars (to fight a lawsuit and/or pay for her hrt and srs) to benefit someone quite a bit of people see as having committed treason. She does have supporters, but there's also opponents and probably many people conflicted about how they viewher.

if it does go to court, I hope the outcome can benefit us trans people who aren't in prison  as well.

[Anna++]

I agree. Many people will see this add a big waste of taxpayer dollars (to fight a lawsuit and/or pay for her hrt and srs) to benefit someone quite a bit of people see as having committed treason. She does have supporters, but there's also opponents and probably many people conflicted about how they viewher.

Do prisoners have to somehow pay back the money spent on them while they are incarcerated?

if it does go to court, I hope the outcome can benefit us trans people who aren't in prison  as well.

That would be nice.  I'm definitely going to keep my ears open for news about her in the future!

[DriftingCrow]

As far as I know, prisoners don't have to pay for their medical care they receive in prison; that's why cases involving prisons paying for srs have been so heated, both within and out of the trans community.

[Ltl89]

I agree. Many people will see this add a big waste of taxpayer dollars (to fight a lawsuit and/or pay for her hrt and srs) to benefit someone quite a bit of people see as having committed treason. She does have supporters, but there's also opponents and probably many people conflicted about how they viewher.

if it does go to court, I hope the outcome can benefit us trans people who aren't in prison  as well.

I don't see how it would help those of us out of prison other than a shift in societal perspective.  And that only will happen if the debate goes in our favor.  From what I have heard, she may sue using the 8th Amedment and argue denial of treatment is cruel and unusual punishment.  It will have a major impact on coverage for prisoners, but not likely outside of it.  I suppose insurance companies may start to cover something labelled as cruel or usual to deny, but that's not likely as people outside of prison can seek treatment even if they don't have coverage. 

I wouldn't expect anything to change from this.  It's highly unlikely they will say this violates the 8th amendment, if that is indeed the legal recourse she follows up with. 

Do prisoners have to somehow pay back the money spent on them while they are incarcerated?

That would be nice.  I'm definitely going to keep my ears open for news about her in the future!

No, the taxpayers pay for the prison system (for the most part).  She did receive a fine (I believe $100,000) when she was charged.

P.S.  Even I'm having a hard time with pronouns.  I had to proofread two times to check for errors,lol. 

[Christine167]

I had a feeling this would happen when her picture surfaced on the Internet with a disclosure of her gender issues.

That said I think we are all polarized just a bit on the issue but at the very least want fair treatment for her and hopefully a good long term reform out come. I'm sure that there is a better use for tax payer dollars than the possible 30 years of hard time which would ruin Manning with no benefit to those harmed by her actions. She is a non-violent first offender who is willing to recivitate. Especially since I don't remember anyone in her department being punished for the security lapses. I mean even the little hospital where I work has better computer security than what was described of that Army Intelligence site.

[Anna++]

As far as I know, prisoners don't have to pay for their medical care they receive in prison; that's why cases involving prisons paying for srs have been so heated, both within and out of the trans community.

Yeah, that's really easy to understand.  I even found myself thinking "Why does she get transition paid for but I have to pay for it myself?".  I'm not sure how I want things to go here, but I think I would like it best if she was allowed HRT but had to pay for it herself (the same goes for medical treatments to other inmates, too! )

[musicofthenight]

Money is a non-issue.  I admit I don't know exactly what hormones cost, but assuming fifty to one hundred dollars a month for the full thirty-five year sentence... $20,000 to $40,000 roughly.

Do you have any idea how much we will spend to incarcerate her?  Heck, there are generals who will waste more money than that (in stand-around-doing-nothing time) just deciding which side of a bush to pee on.  With how high-profile her case is, we could raise that online in a couple of hours.

The question is not money.  It's about whether a convicted spy deserves treatment, whether she has to earn it*, and if so how.

(*There are lots of transexual people who can't afford HRT.  Are they any less deserving than Manning?)

[Sarah Louise]

(*There are lots of transexual people who can't afford HRT.  Are they any less deserving than Manning?)

Ditto +1

[dalebert]

I feel most of these questions and complications are inevitable because we are still so barbaric as to have a punitive justice system and putting people in cages, except maybe for the truly extreme cases when it's necessary to protect people, but even then it should be far more humane that they are now.

http://www.blackandpink.org/

[Ltl89]

Money is a non-issue.  I admit I don't know exactly what hormones cost, but assuming fifty to one hundred dollars a month for the full thirty-five year sentence... $20,000 to $40,000 roughly.

Do you have any idea how much we will spend to incarcerate her?  Heck, there are generals who will waste more money than that (in stand-around-doing-nothing time) just deciding which side of a bush to pee on.  With how high-profile her case is, we could raise that online in a couple of hours.

The question is not money.  It's about whether a convicted spy deserves treatment, whether she has to earn it*, and if so how.

(*There are lots of transexual people who can't afford HRT.  Are they any less deserving than Manning?)

Manning is a lot of things, but spy she is not.  Even she was acquitted of the charges of aiding the enemy.  I don't feel that is the proper term.

Yes there are a lot of trans people in prison.  Each one, in my opinion, is deserving of the medical treatment.  It's not about liking Manning or anything.  And there is no way for Manning to earn it.  It's about whether the military will cover this and allow her the control to transition.  If they don't cover it, they won't allow it.  I don't think that is right, yet I doubt this would be covered under the 8th amendment.  But to answer your question, if it goes to court, the decision will have an impact on al trans prisoners. 

Yeah, that's really easy to understand.  I even found myself thinking "Why does she get transition paid for but I have to pay for it myself?".  I'm not sure how I want things to go here, but I think I would like it best if she was allowed HRT but had to pay for it herself (the same goes for medical treatments to other inmates, too! )

Keep in mind that there are civilians without insurance who have to pay for their cardiac medical bills and other treatments that prisoners get treated for.  People have gone to jail for the sole purpose of having their illness treated.  It's sad that our insurance system is so backwards; however, I don't think we should take it out on the prisoner.  The real culprate is the failing insurance system and the convenient loopholes they have in their policies.  America has great healthcare, but the insurance system and the prices are out of control. 

[DriftingCrow]

Just a reminder that thisis a support site and to keep the discussion within TOS.

[Jamie D]

Just a reminder that this is a support site and to keep the discussion within TOS.

Strongly seconded.

Let me add, also, that the military justice system is authorized in the US Constitution (Article I, Section 8.) as a system separate from the regular civil and criminal courts.

Though the military justice system is governed by the precepts of the Constitution, much of the Federal civil and criminal case law is inapplicable.

[Ltl89]

Strongly seconded.

Let me add, also, that the military justice system is authorized in the US Constitution (Article I, Section 8.) as a system separate from the regular civil and criminal courts.

Though the military justice system is governed by the precepts of the Constitution, much of the Federal civil and criminal case law is inapplicable.

For arguments sake, if Manning sued the government for the ability to transition by claiming it violated the 8th amendment and he won his case, wouldn't that have further implications?  Under selective incorporation the states have to follow the incorporated amendments in the bill or rights.  If it is deemed that denying treatment for this is cruel and unusual punishment, wouldn't other prisoners have the ability to use this case as a precedent to try and be covered for their transition?  Criminal law has never been my main interest, so I acknowledge I could be overlooking something. 

[Michelle G]

I am really afraid after reading the comments in this article!!

https://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/latimes/posts/10151791220383010

[Ave]

If you're going to state that transsexualism is a medical disorder or whatever then it follows she HAS to receive treatment unless the military would be willing to deny medication for any other disorder.

Personally I don't care either way for him but this strikes me as a famewhore move a la Snowden. Also, don't think for a second that the public thinks of these whistleblowers as anything less than tedious.

[Ltl89]

Remember, that she was treated for GID before she was arrested and convicted.  This has been a part of her life way before everything.  Let's not judge her motives even if you have a personal disagreement with her actions.  I think the comments above about this remaining a support site is important for everyone to keep in mind no matter what your personal feelings are.