Mild trans people

[A]

When I came out to my ex-roommate, long ago, she told me she understood, because her cousin was the same way, and most of all because she also felt like she would be better off as a guy. But in any practical terms, she wasn't really trans at all. She was in every aspect comfortable with her life as a girl, and I seriously don't think she would have ever felt the will to go to a doctor in hopes of transitioning.

This got me thinking. When you're a "real" transsexual, well, you yearn to be the other gender enough, and you're uncomfortable with your birth gender enough (or a complex combination of that stuff) to makes steps towards changing your gender, and often you'll believe that those steps are necessary for you to ever be happy.

But there are people who indeed are trans, but their life's circumstances make them decide against transitioning, because other factors makes thing better, or at least tolerable, the way they are now, too. But they aren't any less trans for that reason.

Now I'm wondering about this: how many people are there who, a bit like my ex-roommate, if they were given the choice of their gender, before being born, wouldn't choose what they ended up with, but who would never think of transitioning at all?

This doesn't really have any implications, and it's not really important, but I'm curious about this, and what everyone thinks about it.

[Carrie Liz]

I don't know. Wondering if you'd have been better off as the other gender isn't necessarily something that makes someone trans, IMO. That to me just sounds like a cisgender person complaining about traditional gender roles... which a LOT of them do.

I do think that there are plenty of people under the trans spectrum who aren't quite as dysphoric, (I'll freely admit that my dysphoria is nowhere near as bad as some people on here,) but there is a fine line between someone being trans and someone who's pretty much happy with their body just not feeling like they quite fit into their gendered niche of society.

[Aina]

Throughout the years, I've always wondered why I never wished to be "normal" like how I've wished to be female. To this day before I go to bed, I still pray and wish to be female. (Hopeless romantic I guess believing in that sort of stuff) But the thing is I always come up with an answer that surprising me to this day.

I honestly feel, if I give up "wanting to be female" then I am also giving up a part of myself. As if I am betraying myself.

So if I had the choice I still pick female. Even if it meant me being in a guys body again.

Even though feeling this way saddens me, and has caused me a lot of stress.  I want to be me in the end, sure I've fantasized about being someone else but eh... Ok I think I am rambling again.

[musicofthenight]

Yeah.  I'm pretty much happy with my body.

Hmm.

Assuming I'd have ended up the same mix inside, I wouldn't mind having the opposite body.  Honestly, I think it's a little easier in our society to be a non-conforming FAAB.  The feminist movement is, for its many faults, more coherent than anything men have*.  Misogyny sucks though.



I think trans* is such a fascinating umbrella because it encompasses such a huge variety of people. 

On one extreme you have Eva Example (let's call her).  Her whole life, everyone who loves her has told her she needs to be Brett, but one day they'll all have to admit they're right, right?  But then she's in her early teens and her body starts saying, "Hey, guess what, Brett?  They were right."  I'd say she cares a whole awful lot about being the right sex and gender and everything.

But on the other extreme you have TJ (let's call em).  And ey's finally arrived, after some searching and awkwardness at a comfortable place in eir life - you could say that ey and eir genderqueer friends are, at the great summer camp called life, the ones who can't resist the temptation to panty-raid the gender binary every Friday night.  Asked about how much gender matters to em, TJ will almost certainly answer, "We're on a bridge, Charlie!"

(If that made any sense, I'm sorry.  I'll try harder next time.) 

For some of us this really is a matter of life and death.  For some of us, we're throwing a party. 



And there are people for whom conforming is convenient.  It's not a big deal and they can't understand why we'd make it.  They're not gender-loyalists, they might even admit that there isn't any reason why it should be weird to see a man in a skirt.

And there are people out there who are too scared, for whom the journey isn't worth risking the abuse.


If you were expecting a conclusion, I don't have one. 




"Charrrrlieeeee~~~  It's a magical liopleurodon.  Show us the way."

[A]

I might have misworded that. I neither mean real trans people, neither do I mean people just complaining about whatever is expected of them. I'm talking about people who, honestly, think they should have been the other gender. But they also honestly don't care enough about that for it to be a problem whatsoever. I just know there are many of these. I've known very few people in my lifetime compared to your average person, yet I can count 4 of them.

To oversimplify this, let's say being trans is a gene. Well they have the trans gene. But they also got the trans resistance gene, which allows them to be trans without incurring any problems.

Does this make any sense? I mean, there are various levels of dysphoria and trans people, from those who will assuredly go crazy about a thousand things in the near future without transition to those who actually could actually have lived rather well without transition but transitioned because 1.1 is greater than 1 unit of happiness. It's not such a big stretch to imagine that there might be people whose brain is indeed of the wrong gender, but those people could very well live with it, no?

(This is the second such theoretical discussion thread I've made, and the second time it's misunderstood/fails. I think I suck at this.)

[AmberSkyeArisen]

There is no such thing as a "real" transexual. The word transexual is made by humans to describe a certain few humans. Definitions change.

I see myself as that, if I could choose to be born a female, I would. But being born a guy never bothered me much. Yet I still want to transition, and am transitioning, because it's how I feel I should be, how I feel I should look. 

You want to get into theoretical stuff. The definitions of each word are unique to the person using the word. The way we see and describe a word is characterized by our experiences and thoughts on certain subjects/ items, etc. For every word there are 7 billion definitions. When you say transexual, the definition of transexual for you is also molded by your theoretical thoughts about what constitutes "mild trans people" as well as what a real trans person is, or a cis person.

I would be considered a "mild trans person" by your definition but I know i'm also a "real" trans person as well.

[Devlyn]

A, you did misword it.

10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:

Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term

Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more legitimate, deserving, or more real than any others

Thread locked.

[Devlyn]

This topic is being re-opened with a reminder to choose our words carefully.

[barbie]

This got me thinking. When you're a "real" transsexual, well, you yearn to be the other gender enough, and you're uncomfortable with your birth gender enough (or a complex combination of that stuff) to makes steps towards changing your gender, and often you'll believe that those steps are necessary for you to ever be happy.

There is no clear boundary. Even those conditions change even for the same person. If you want to group people based on the definition of a noun, you may first study the millenary history of philosophical debate between realism and nominalism. There are many internet resources regarding this issue. For example, http://philosophy.about.com/od/Philosophical-Theories-Ideas/a/Nominalism-And-Realism.htm .

barbie~~

[Natkat]

I think theres a diffrence between the feel like a guy/girl or having transgender fellings.

Many people partly feel abit like they belong to boy or girls in ways who isnt nessesarry gender connected. usunally you can hear/read people decribe themself ex like. "I love computergames and like one of the guys" still very confortable being female.

I think the diffrence may be if it more genderole based or if your having a inner felling.
when I first came out I where still a kid, I said I wish I where a guy, my friend said he wished he was a girl, my reason where because I was said I could not say "im a boy" in english and had to say "im a girl" his reason was because girls got spoiled by the teacher.

[A]

So the general consensus is that either you're actually trans, either you're not and are just making comments that aren't deeply thought out. It makes sense in a way. I mean, before he came out as gay, one of my classmates to whom I'd told I felt like I should be a girl told me he felt the same, but it's pretty likely that was just a thoughtless comment because it's "easier" for girls to be into guys.

Regardless, I still have that feeling that the possibility exists. I don't know, for some reason it just makes sense to me that a lot more people than we think would chemically, mentally and socially live happier as the opposite gender, are "made for it", but that a lot of them are actually adaptable enough to be able to live as their birth gender just fine and never really worry about it.

It's going pretty far without any sort of evidence, but in some way it just makes sense that way, that there are two factors: whether your brain matches your body, and whether you're able to deal with it*. In a way, it might also explain the apparently numerous children who express genuine cross-gender feelings that just fade away when puberty approaches.

*Being able to deal with it here is meant as the body/brain being able to deal themselves with the gender misfit, without occasioning much of the "symptoms" that being trans brings. In no way does it refer to actual trans people and their choice to transition or not.

[KabitTarah]

I'd identify as "mild" (though not mild-mannered and I think we attract our own difficulties. It was pretty easy to be convinced I'm not trans by my parents... 20 years later I'm on my way toward transition and drastically altering the family I love and shouldn't have had.

On the other hand I'm an introverted optimist and am really super happy with coming out... so much that I itch to tell people before I'm ready. Personality changes occur even before HRT I think!

[DriftingCrow]

I might have misworded that. I neither mean real trans people, neither do I mean people just complaining about whatever is expected of them. I'm talking about people who, honestly, think they should have been the other gender. But they also honestly don't care enough about that for it to be a problem whatsoever. I just know there are many of these. I've known very few people in my lifetime compared to your average person, yet I can count 4 of them.

I sometimes don't feel like I am trans at all after seeing how some people on here feel and define what trans is. Given the choice before birth, I would've been male without a doubt. If I was a wee bit younger and knew more about the possibilities of transitioning, I definitely would've done it. Now though, I have my doubts on whether transitioning (at least fully) is right for me. Things have come up in life that would make it difficult (not like its ever easy), and I've kind of come to find ways to accept it and even embrace being born female.

It's not really that big of a deal to me a quite a bit of the time. In my head, I do often just see myself as a guy doing things, and sometimes I kind of forget what I look like and then it seems weird when I see myself in a mirror. But this doesn't really make me want to jump out and get on T and get surgeries, change my name, etc.

[aleon515]

There's no such thing as not trans enough, but perhaps some people won't take the term trans onto themselves, but kind of fit nevertheless. The guy who runs New Beginnings (very out so there's no problem here) which is a recovery place for trans guys who are recovering from top surgery with Dr. Garramone had top surgery at age 55 or so. He is just done transitioning. He felt it was a lot to do at his age. He prefers male pronouns and uses a male name, but he didn't want hormones. I think its' all under the whole thing of being trans. I think there are quite a number of people who for what ever reason do not want to, are unable, unwilling, or whatever of living their lives in *any* way the gender they are really. They might not ID as trans but I think in the broad scheme of things they are. I don't think I use the term on them directly as they wouldn't want it, but the trans umbrella is rather large and covers a lot of different experiences that encompass ways of being in the world that are not cis.

--Jay

[Shantel]

There's no such thing as not trans enough, but perhaps some people won't take the term trans onto themselves, but kind of fit nevertheless. The guy who runs New Beginnings (very out so there's no problem here) which is a recovery place for trans guys who are recovering from top surgery with Dr. Garramone had top surgery at age 55 or so. He is just done transitioning. He felt it was a lot to do at his age. He prefers male pronouns and uses a male name, but he didn't want hormones. I think its' all under the whole thing of being trans. I think there are quite a number of people who for what ever reason do not want to, are unable, unwilling, or whatever of living their lives in *any* way the gender they are really. They might not ID as trans but I think in the broad scheme of things they are. I don't think I use the term on them directly as they wouldn't want it, but the trans umbrella is rather large and covers a lot of different experiences that encompass ways of being in the world that are not cis.

--Jay

My appreciative amen to what Jay has so articulately put forth, he was reading my mind!

[Lo]

I can't really see myself as living as "another gender". At the end of the day, I don't really know what that means... the only gender I can really conceive of is my own, which is N/A. I do, in a vague sense, wish that I could have been born in my ideal, queer, N/A body, but that's the stuff of science fiction. It feels gross and embarrassing to even say that, but it's the truth.

Living with the body that I have and being read the way I am is like being born with a mild disability and just learning to make the most of it.

[ErinM]

To oversimplify this, let's say being trans is a gene. Well they have the trans gene. But they also got the trans resistance gene, which allows them to be trans without incurring any problems.

Does this make any sense? I mean, there are various levels of dysphoria and trans people, from those who will assuredly go crazy about a thousand things in the near future without transition to those who actually could actually have lived rather well without transition but transitioned because 1.1 is greater than 1 unit of happiness. It's not such a big stretch to imagine that there might be people whose brain is indeed of the wrong gender, but those people could very well live with it, no?

(This is the second such theoretical discussion thread I've made, and the second time it's misunderstood/fails. I think I suck at this.)

To me personally this makes a lot of sense.

I was born with a genetic condition called Neurofibromatosis type 1, or NF1 that I inherited from my mom.  The hallmark of this condition is that Neurofibromas (tumors) can grow alon any nerve in the body.  For me this meant a large tumor grow behind my right eye, leaving me deformed since before birth. More tumors have shown up as I grew up.  When I first started trying to figure things out and reading people's accounts of being trans* I noticed that many thought of it as a birth defect, so naturally I compared the two.  The similarities are remarkable.

Both conditions vary widely between how they present from person to person.  If you didn't know that my mom and I had the same condition.  My mother is covered with 100's of tumors that are easily visible and vary in size from a pimple to a peach pit size.  For me the right side of my face is deformed (in part from one large tumor), and I have maybe about 75 and most are only visible under ther right lighting conditions with the biggest being about pea sized.  There are some who have very large tumors covering their entire face, or limbs and others who live in constant debilitating pain.  In addition to tumors and the problems they cause, there are also patches of darker skin pigmentation, cognitive issues and bone deformities.

Bolth conditions vary as to when symptoms become appearent. For many this goes unnoticed well into adulthood like my mother and both conditions tend to progressively get worse with time and will require  management (for lack of a better term) whenever quality of life is impacted.

Additionally people without the NF gene can still grow neurofibromas, but it usually isn't of concern unless several start to appear.

With that said, yes it makes a lot of sense that whatever the mechanism for ->-bleeped-<- could affect the person in varying ways and varying degrees. This doesn't mean that someone is "more" or "less" trans*, it only means that their specific set of symptoms need to be managed accordingly.

[Shantel]

With that said, yes it makes a lot of sense that whatever the mechanism for ->-bleeped-<- could affect the person in varying ways and varying degrees. This doesn't mean that someone is "more" or "less" trans*, it only means that their specific set of symptoms need to be managed accordingly.

Erin,
    Thank you for sharing what must be a difficult situation for you. I respect your efforts at  transparency in sharing your own condition as analogous to how each individual's specific set of symptoms need to be managed accordingly and I might add sometimes differently from those of others. Bless your sweet heart sis! xox ~Shan~

[Ltl89]

I prefer my trans people to be spicy rather than mild. 

It seems there are people like this.  Since my mindset is fairly different, I can't really understand how this could be a non issue for some.  However, dysphoria differs from person to person.

[Taka]

comparing it to a birth defect seems quite appropriate.

the way i see it, there are girls, and boys, and a few other genders. none are trans, some just have a differently shaped body. i can see quite a lot of reasons why a girl would choose to grow up to become a man, or a boy would choose to grow up to become a woman. it might have to do with gender roles, convenience, getting to do what you want to do. even those who are born with a body that is congruent with their gender might choose to live as the opposite gender, so i don't see any difficulties with a person who has a body congruent with the opposite gender choosing to live as the opposite gender.

if i think logically about my own position, it's better for me to be female. that would make it easier for me to get what i want. i have a female body, and i don't feel a very strong need to change my gender. i could count myself lucky, in a way, that i've been born with a body that gives me some useful advantages. i'm still not a girl though, and i never really was. can't say i'm much of a guy either, so fully transitioning out of my advantageous position seems a little unnecessary.

i think for people with milder symptoms, it might be a matter of their situation. right now, it's better for me to be a woman. it's unpleasant to be addressed as one, but i can deal with it. if my situation changes to one where this gender doesn't hold any advantages, and still i feel like correcting this slight birth defect a little, i might suddenly start pursuing medical treatment much more aggressively.

It's not really that big of a deal to me a quite a bit of the time. In my head, I do often just see myself as a guy doing things, and sometimes I kind of forget what I look like and then it seems weird when I see myself in a mirror. But this doesn't really make me want to jump out and get on T and get surgeries, change my name, etc.

i seem to have the same type of experience quite often. i do want to change my name and try some hormones, but not enough to make a big deal about it. at least not right now.