Humanism, good without god

[Tessa James]

I am a humanist and there are relatively small but influential humanist organizations all over the world.  Humanism is a secular philosophy and perspective on living an ethical life.  Many faiths, religions, and spiritual practitioners have general rules about who can belong.  We draw lines that keep some people out of the club.  I like to think about a humanism that is inclusive and turns that line into a circle that brings everyone in.  Humanism has been around and has evolved over centuries.  We have an American Humanist Association that has created and updated a Humanist Manifesto that was last updated in 2003 as Humanist Manifesto III.
HUMANISM AND ITS ASPIRATIONS

Humanist Manifesto III, a successor to the Humanist Manifesto of 1933

Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.

The lifestance of Humanism—guided by reason, inspired by compassion, and informed by experience—encourages us to live life well and fully. It evolved through the ages and continues to develop through the efforts of thoughtful people who recognize that values and ideals, however carefully wrought, are subject to change as our knowledge and understandings advance.

This document is part of an ongoing effort to manifest in clear and positive terms the conceptual boundaries of Humanism, not what we must believe but a consensus of what we do believe. It is in this sense that we affirm the following:

Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies. We also recognize the value of new departures in thought, the arts, and inner experience—each subject to analysis by critical intelligence.

Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.

Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.

Life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death. Humanists rely on the rich heritage of human culture and the lifestance of Humanism to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty.

Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships. Humanists long for and strive toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. The joining of individuality with interdependence enriches our lives, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all.

Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness. Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community. We seek to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability, and we support a just distribution of nature's resources and the fruits of human effort so that as many as possible can enjoy a good life.

Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views. We work to uphold the equal enjoyment of human rights and civil liberties in an open, secular society and maintain it is a civic duty to participate in the democratic process and a planetary duty to protect nature's integrity, diversity, and beauty in a secure, sustainable manner.

Thus engaged in the flow of life, we aspire to this vision with the informed conviction that humanity has the ability to progress toward its highest ideals. The responsibility for our lives and the kind of world in which we live is ours and ours alone.


So that is one humanist organization's kind of declaration or position paper if you will.  I was an active card carrying member and chapter leader back in the 80's but my interests are focused more locally now and I have not tried to form a chapter in this rural area.  Humanism remains a progressive and rational philosophy for me that may also be applicable to how you look at humanity.  Best of luck on your personal journey and explorations.

Tessa James

[V M]

Truly, much of what you have expressed has been on my mind for quite awhile but explaining it to others has proven to be a bit of a challenge 

I wasn't aware that there was a Humanism group

[Tessa James]

Hi VM,

Yes, there are probably more references to humanism as some spooky, commie, religion hating, and dangerously secular idea.  The people I met and know in the organized humanist groups often came from fundamentalist religious family backgrounds and were seeking not just atheism and a rejection of supernatural gods but a sense of belonging, community and a philosophy that makes rational sense.  There are other humanist groups like the Council for Secular Humanism.  Part of what I appreciate about humanism is the naturalism and regard for all of humanity that recognizes the inherent worth and value of diversity.  I think, with the membership in these groups likely being less than 10,000 people, that we are hardly a threat or in a position to threaten christianity or religious world views.  And then we do evolve and some european countries are becoming more secular so stay tuned.

[V M]

Although I am not the religious type, I do believe in the freedom of religion and have no problem with people believing what ever they wish... But that doesn't mean I'm going to buy into any of it

I suppose these feelings come from the observations of hypocrisy that I have experienced, observations of the type who put on the holy moly and go to church and such and then behave like the devil the rest of the time

I have long felt that religion has no real bearing on whither a person behaves in an ethical manor or not, I feel that it is up to the individual themselves and their own conscience

Sometimes I tell people that I believe in Santa Claus if they press me too much, after all, Santa does keep a list of who's naughty or nice 

[MadeleineG]

I'm curious. Has your Humanism group attempted to apply for the same kinds of tax exemptions offered religious groups?

[Donna Elvira]

I'm not part of any organisation but am very much aligned with the thinking presented in you post Tessa. I think it would be the case for many people in Europe which is far more secular than the U.S., especially France.
Thanks for the post.
Donna

[Ltl89]

I fully agree with what you posted.  You don't need to be religious or require a god to do good in the world.

[Tessa James]

Good morning friends,

Yawn, stretch, scratch and coffee.

Thank you for your thoughtful responses.  The American Humanist Association has a charitable adjunct wing that raises funds and provides a tax exemption making it a 501 (c) 3 type outfit.  They own a building, publish a magazine and have conferences but the mission and vision is more about education than building empire.  Donna is correct about the european countries having larger membership in humanist groups and unorganized individuals living secular lives free from the dictates and superstitious references of many here.  As a recognized and out advocate I have participated in direct action with other humanists for years on the front lines.  We have acted as escorts for women at clinics that provide abortions and other legal health care as they have been targeted by the religious right.  We speak up and support LGBTQ people in out struggles for justice and civil rights.  I frequently found myself sought out by folks who wanted to have a debate about the existence of god or the meaning of my "empty life."  I became comfortable with that notoriety but often preface the discussion by asking "is there anything that could change your mind about your faith?"  Usually the answer is an emphatic and righteous NO!  I try to point out that we are then engaged in an academic exercise where I am willing and ready to consider new ideas and new proofs but they are not.  Basic laws of thermodynamics suggest a closed system is finite while biological organisms definitely depend on adaptability and diversity for survival.  I do not feel smug but more a confidence that this progressive humanist philosophy is evolving with the times and as new information is available while not painting itself into a defensive corner.
We can sometimes be a bit studious with high minded and intellectual pursuits that I like to shake up with some irreverent humour.  Like V M i joke about believing in Santa Claus, unicorns and fairies for which the usual proofs exist.  I was raised as a roman catholic and attended parochial grade school and a military JROTC high school till I ran away from home at 16.  Being physically beaten, humiliated and abused by the nuns who consider themselves the bride of christ helped me see very early in life that if this is what being close to god means I better keep at arms length.  While history and our current culture are replete with loving and caring religious people we must also look at the personal and global impacts of discrimination and religiously fueled violence and war.  It's not always pretty and with over 2500 different recognized religious denomination here the field of contenders for the ultimate truth seems crowded.
As a child I lived in fear of god and her followers.  It feels much better to now be a freethinker.

[Ltl89]

Good morning friends,

Yawn, stretch, scratch and coffee.

Thank you for your thoughtful responses.  The American Humanist Association has a charitable adjunct wing that raises funds and provides a tax exemption making it a 501 (c) 3 type outfit.  They own a building, publish a magazine and have conferences but the mission and vision is more about education than building empire.  Donna is correct about the european countries having larger membership in humanist groups and unorganized individuals living secular lives free from the dictates and superstitious references of many here.  As a recognized and out advocate I have participated in direct action with other humanists for years on the front lines.  We have acted as escorts for women at clinics that provide abortions and other legal health care as they have been targeted by the religious right.  We speak up and support LGBTQ people in out struggles for justice and civil rights.  I frequently found myself sought out by folks who wanted to have a debate about the existence of god or the meaning of my "empty life."  I became comfortable with that notoriety but often preface the discussion by asking "is there anything that could change your mind about your faith?"  Usually the answer is an emphatic and righteous NO!  I try to point out that we are then engaged in an academic exercise where I am willing and ready to consider new ideas and new proofs but they are not.  Basic laws of thermodynamics suggest a closed system is finite while biological organisms definitely depend on adaptability and diversity for survival.  I do not feel smug but more a confidence that this progressive humanist philosophy is evolving with the times and as new information is available while not painting itself into a defensive corner.
We can sometimes be a bit studious with high minded and intellectual pursuits that I like to shake up with some irreverent humour.  Like V M i joke about believing in Santa Claus, unicorns and fairies for which the usual proofs exist.  I was raised as a roman catholic and attended parochial grade school and a military JROTC high school till I ran away from home at 16.  Being physically beaten, humiliated and abused by the nuns who consider themselves the bride of christ helped me see very early in life that if this is what being close to god means I better keep at arms length.  While history and our current culture are replete with loving and caring religious people we must also look at the personal and global impacts of discrimination and religiously fueled violence and war.  It's not always pretty and with over 2500 different recognized religious denomination here the field of contenders for the ultimate truth seems crowded.
As a child I lived in fear of god and her followers.  It feels much better to now be a freethinker.

I can agree with a lot here, but I do wish we could all come together.  As someone who isn't a theist, I do acknowledge there are plenty of religious people that would cherish the works and values of humanist organizations.  Believe me, I have worked with enough religious people on social justice initiatives to realize their hearts can be in the right place.  While God isn't a prerequisite for being a good person, there are plenty of religious people who do good in the world as well.  Belief in a god or not is irrelevant to me.  Its about what you value, what you hold dear, and believe in general.  Essentially, who are you as a person.  I often look at the hostile religious debates between theists and non theists and it saddens me that it becomes so hostile.  There is never a reason for us to fight so bitterly about this.  Debate and conversation is fine, but hatred of people for their religious views isn't.  As long as one isn't trying to force their religious values on me or society, then I don't have a problem with them (in most cases).  However, once they cross that barrier, then it is time we fight in a political and social sense. 

I'm not saying you would disagree with this.  I just wanted to add to the conversation at hand.

[Donna Elvira]

I can agree with a lot here, but I do wish we could all come together.  As someone who isn't a theist, I do acknowledge there are plenty of religious people that would cherish the works and values of humanist organizations.  Believe me, I have worked with enough religious people on social justice initiatives to realize their hearts can be in the right place.  While God isn't a prerequisite for being a good person, there are plenty of religious people who do good in the world as well.  Belief in a god or not is irrelevant to me.  Its about what you value, what you hold dear, and believe in general.  Essentially, who are you as a person.  I often look at the hostile religious debates between theists and non theists and it saddens me that it becomes so hostile.  There is never a reason for us to fight so bitterly about this.  Debate and conversation is fine, but hatred of people for their religious views isn't.  As long as one isn't trying to force their religious values on me or society, then I don't have a problem with them (in most cases).  However, once they cross that barrier, then it is time we fight in a political and social sense. 

I'm not saying you would disagree with this.  I just wanted to add to the conversation at hand.

Agree completly with you LtL. I was educated by Jesuits and still remember most of them as some of the best people I have ever encountered. Today, two of my very best friends are practising catholics and also among the most decent people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Among many other things, both of them recently provided me with particularly moving letters in support of my Civil Identity Change. So like you, I would avoid lumping people into categories based on their religious beliefs or lack of same. As you say, what really counts are the underlying values.
Donna 

[Tessa James]

LTL and Donna,

Bringing us together and finding that elusive common ground is facilitated by recognition of our shared humanity and values.  I completely agree with you and readily acknowledge the worth and value of so many wonderful people that have or are proponents of religious faith.  If there is any need to judge us then I trust we will all do better by looking at our deeds rather than our oratory and rhetoric.
Polarization is sadly on the rise as a politically divisive tool that often results in gridlock and suspicion.
I work with natural resource and conservation groups that feature bringing stakeholders together and working on solutions vs suing one another.  It is way too easy for some to say, I'm a good environmentalist and they are the bad guy loggers and exploiters.  Instead, we work together to assess, plan, fund and build solutions for watershed and water quality concerns.  Here in the Pacific Northwest saving our iconic salmon is a major priority and sitting down together at the round table is where we get going. 
When it comes to current global issues like the proposed military action in Syria we again seek a coalition with people of faith.   My Quaker, Buddhist and atheist friends share a desire for peace and non violent solutions that recognize the fallacy of "killing people for peace."

Yes,we have much to celebrate and a wealth of good ideas to explore together.  Thank you for adding to this conversation

[Anatta]

Kia Ora Tessa,

Most 'sane' people are humanist, but have yet to adopt the label... That is, there are both theist and non theist humanists...

I'm an atheist in what I don't believe, a rationalist in how I believe, and a humanist in what I believe... However as a Buddhist( one could also say I'm a Sentient Beingist  ) I don't deny Ultimate Reality...

Metta Zenda

[Felix]

You know, I try not to admit to being an atheist most of the time because there's so much stigma about it. My daughter has recently started asking a ton of meaning-of-life type questions, and I've had a hard time answering them. The word "humanist" doesn't mean a lot to most people, and when I explain how I feel and our ethics etc it comes across but not very well. We're still perceived mainly as atheists in a way that implies that we're somehow spiritually crippled or something. I don't like how our culture is so mean about not having a religion.

Anyway, I dig.

[Tessa James]

Hey Felix you furry happy monster!  Yes, atheist is a flash point word for many people.  I have often experienced condescension and the old "I'll pray for your lost soul" or why are you so afraid of god's power? stuff.
I also have an adult daughter and she was actually targeted at school because of my reputation and was constantly courted by the religious kids and families to join their groups.  Peer pressure as a kid is incredible and I was unable to offer a relevant venue with her peers that could compete with the majority culture.  We get along pretty well now but religion can still be a flash point for disagreement or sensitivity.  I want her to see how often the very churches she attends are directly contributing to the hatred and political fight against our civil rights.   My son on the other hand is a big brawler and suffers the fools not at all but I get weary about fights with far better venues for my time.  I think you have precious opportunities to share with your daughter and explore these life perspectives.  I trust you do so with sensitivity and encouragement.
Anyway thanks for the dig Dude.

[Anatta]

Kia Ora "American members",

Tell me, is this stigma wide spread throughout the different states ? I was on a Buddhist forum a while back where this US member, lived in 'fear' of his neighbours finding out he was a 'practising' Buddhist, he lived in one of the Southern states...

Metta Zenda  

[Donna Elvira]

Reading these posts and many others on this forum really makes me appreciate just how tolerant a country I have the luck to live in. For people like us, laws regarding civil identity changes and such are still very restrictive compared to many similar countries but just in terms of day to day attitudes, it is very much a live and let live culture.
As I mentioned in my previous post, while I am personnally an "agnostic athiest" a couple of my very best friends are practising catholics. We have discussed the in and outs of our respective beliefs plenty of times but always in a very respectful manner as on the things that count, moral values, we are very much in tune.
I admit that the people I mix with are mostly  very well educated and this does make a difference. Nevertheless, tolerance is at least on par with Liberty, Equality & Fraternity in terms of the national values and would have to be one of the things I like most about this country where people mostly mind their own business.
Interestingly, foreigners often consider that French people's reluctance to ask lots of questions about you is down to coldness and lack of curiosity but in reality, I think it is far more down to deep rooted respect for people's privacy.
Donna     

[Anatta]

Kia Ora Donna,

It would seem what many of us 'non Americans' take for granted ie, "tolerance and acceptance" when it comes to personal beliefs, Americans (so it would seem) have to continually fight for....

Metta Zenda

[Tessa James]

Kia Ora "American members",

Tell me, is this stigma wide spread throughout the different states ? I was on a Buddhist forum a while back where this US member, lived in 'fear' of his neighbours finding out he was a 'practising' Buddhist, he lived in one of the Southern states...

Metta Zenda

Kia Ora Kuan Yin,

Yes there is plenty of stigma to go around.  We often refer to the southern states here as the "bible belt" and when a Buddhist Monastery opened near here there were initial rumblings and suspicious concerns.   My wife is a frequent attendee and they have meditation and gatherings in the local library.  I lived in a southern state for year or so and was cautioned about not talking about sex, politics or religion--my favs!  Oregon had the unfortunate experience of being home to the Rajneeshees cult that in 1984 took over a rural town and actually poisoned people in a "bioterror attack"  www.nydailynews.com/.../guru-poison-bioterrorrists-spread-salmonella-.

Oh for the love of god what wont we do?   

[Tessa James]

Reading these posts and many others on this forum really makes me appreciate just how tolerant a country I have the luck to live in. For people like us, laws regarding civil identity changes and such are still very restrictive compared to many similar countries but just in terms of day to day attitudes, it is very much a live and let live culture.
As I mentioned in my previous post, while I am personnally an "agnostic athiest" a couple of my very best friends are practising catholics. We have discussed the in and outs of our respective beliefs plenty of times but always in a very respectful manner as on the things that count, moral values, we are very much in tune.
I admit that the people I mix with are mostly well very well educated and this does make a difference. Nevertheless, tolerance is at least on par with Liberty, Equality & Fraternity in terms of the national values and would have to be one of the things I like most about this country where people mostly mind their own business.
Interestingly, foreigners often consider that French people's reluctance to ask lots of questions about you is down to coldness and lack of curiosity but in reality, I think it is far more down to deep rooted respect for people's privacy.
Donna     

Donna I sure like to hear about that live and let live attitude.  Viva la difference!  Did I get that right?  One of the criticisms of humanism is that during the enlightenment we dropped off the priests heads and ended up with souless, cubist, humanist architecture while neglecting the spiritual and soaring edifices like cathedrals.  Art is so easy to define, not!?

[Felix]

Kia Ora "American members",

Tell me, is this stigma wide spread throughout the different states ? I was on a Buddhist forum a while back where this US member, lived in 'fear' of his neighbours finding out he was a 'practising' Buddhist, he lived in one of the Southern states...

Metta Zenda

To keep her from being tormented by classmates and lectured by adults, I actually taught my daughter for many years to say she was southern baptist. I don't have anything against church or religious people and we had very little to gain and a lot to lose by being open about even agnosticism in Alabama, Florida, and Georgia.

Every state is different, and cities vary probably even more than states. Atlanta is more progressive than Bend, for example. For what it's worth.