How much it bothers you when people mix transexual with gay/lesbian?

[Lesley_Roberta]

I don't like the false image of me the inclusion seem to create, but I guess it's good for political reasons.

About gay people being more open to us than straight, I don't know. Some seem to think we are leaching off their cause and I've come across some raging transphobes in the gay community. I've seen lasbian feminists refer to the neo-vagina as a "second anus" and I've heard gay men say we (us who are mtf anyway) are nothing but men to chicken to accept the fact that we are really just self-loathing gay homophobes.

I have a really nice lesbian couple as friends but generally I try to stay away from gay people. Their threshold for outing trans people seem even lower than among straight people. I have a really close friend who is gay, and earlier this year another friend came to me and told me that said friend likes to share my story with great enthusiasm and lots of laughter in social settings. Apparently he thinks me being trans and having transitioned to be extremely hilarious. I confronted him about it and he told me that he thinks being a transsexual and transitioning was just too extreme and to sensational to keep on the low down.

Also gay people seem better at reading me than straight people, and sometimes they like to really let the world know they've clocked you by hollering, hooting and making sassy remarks. I'd rather be shot dead in the back of the head than go into a gay club.

I seem to get crapped on when I post comments like the above, but, the thing is, I DO support it.

I am transgender, and it seems the second we go out of our way to say we are not comfortable with being the TG part of LGBTG we get the reaction that we are homophobic. No I am not homophobic, but, I don't wish to be labeled what I am not either. I'm also not Christian just because I live in Canada regardless of what any of the nutjobs of the extremist muslim terrorist crowd want to think, nor do I give a hoot what they have to say about heathens. I'm not a heathen, I prefer to think of myself as educated and no, I don't much care what that sounds like either. Bear your cross if you must, don't assume I even have one though just because you might.

I am not a commie just because I like having a country that takes care of it's people through taxes. I hate how people speak the word 'social' as if it can't mean anything other than socialist and commie. I am probably more right wing than left wing, but, I don't require an ideology to be right wing, believe it or not. I am not pro gun ownership, but I also don't object to you using the stupid things.

I would much rather people actually didn't use LGBTG and left it as LGB only.
Because as far as I see it, my being TG has NOTHING to do with sex, it is all about wishing I was just in the right body and NOTHING else.
And the last time I checked, the LGB crowd was ALL about who they prefer to have sex with and who they can have a relationship with.

Meanwhile, there are likely a great many of the TG crowd who are ok being single, and yet, being TG is still a full time all day long issue.

Last night I was 100% miserable about being TG in this body. It intrudes, it annoys, it messes with and ruins my ability to relax and do things without constantly being reminded I am in the wrong body.
I was just trying to watch a darned anime, and I can't stop noticing, I am in the wrong body here, I don't look like the character I am trying to identify with. I felt even worse than the ugly duckling unnoticed unpopular girl in the show, because at the end of the day, ugly as she is, unnoticed as she is, unpopular as she is, she doesn't have to go through the day in the wrong body. I had to turn off the show and go to bed, as it was depressing me too much thinking about it.

I don't think it is just a small nasty portion of the gay community that is not interested in us and thinks ill of us, I think they are no better than the rest of society as a whole. I likely will never walk past a gay person in a given week, it is because I live in a small town. But I would not be expecting to be treated by them, any better than any of the cliche hetero crowd if in a big city.

I think we of the TG portion of humanity, are on our own, and we merely need a few similar considerations legally speaking when it comes to the homosexual crowd.

I'm actually a bit sad, that I could marry a cis female, and no one would object like they would with two cis females.
Because the refusal to accept me is such, that I am simply even getting considered another female marrying a female in the eyes of so many, and thus not a same sex marriage issue at all to begin with.

[Jess42]

I think it kinda' bothers me a little. The part that bothers me is that we are so misunderstood by society and even a lot of the LGB community. A woman attracted to another woman or a man attracted to another man or both attracted to both is sexual preference and is something that is physical that can be pretty much explained. AKA sexual attraction. I know, I'm bi and that is really easy to explain. But a man wanting to be or percieving themselves to be female or a female wanting to be or percieving themselves to be male, well that just adds a lot of questions into the mix that can't be explained especially when it's not for sexual purposes or preferences. Is it psychological? Is it nuerological? Did something go wrong in the womb? Is it something more spiritual in nature? Is questioning your gender more dominant than it seems to be but society just sweeps it under the rug and refuses to aknowledge it? Do we make people aware that they question or have questioned their own gender and that is why we are so shunned in society? Anyway I think until society really looks seriously into what makes a person transgendered, we're pretty much at a dead end. Or unless there become too many of us to ignore.

[Ltl89]

I think some peopleare severely overlooking the major benefits of having lgbt organizations fight on our behalf.  Whether we like it or not, in order for us to live normal lives, we need the legal structure and society on our side.  Without certain legal protections or social understanding, we are subject to further discrimination and prevented from living our lives.  Organizations like the HRC may focus on the lgb community, but they haven't forgotten us.  They lobby on our behalf and hire political consultancy firms and canvassing organizations to spread pro transgender legislation and educate the public.  The people who do this kind of work really do put in an amazing amount of time and effort.  You may not see the effects of it directly, but there is a reason why we are becoming more and more accepted.  If we separated from the lgbt community, we would have less funding and volunteer initiatives on our side.  The HRC is one of many of these groups that do this kind of work.  We need the LGBT community for political and social purposes. 

Besides the political aspect, think about other things like local organizations and support groups.  Many lgbt centers offer support for transgender people to some degree (therapy, support groups, meet ups, hrt services, and/or general aid). If we separate, that could put those operations in risk.  Think about it, how much funding does your local transgender support group get?  Do you think they would be able to rent a building for these meetings instead of getting a free meeting space at an lgbt center?  While not all of them meet up in such places, many happen to do so.  If your lgbt center helps with informed consent, do you think they would they continue doing so if the trans community broke off?  Would the trans community be able to develop stand alone centers for informed consent and pay for the financial aspects on its own?  By separating, we put our own support structures in further jeopardy.  The collective funding for lgbt initiatives allows us to have access to these important services.   

It may get annoying that people can't distinguish sexuality from gender, but that isn't the fault of the lgbt community.  That's the fault of ignorance which the community has been fighting against for years.  They do much more good than harm and we should all be thankful that such organizations to fight on our behalf.  I hope some will try to see it from this perspective and realize why collective action is stronger than a solitary force. 

[Renee]

I've really gotten to where I don't give a rat's rear about it. I make my own way in a place with no protections for our sort and I think I'm doing pretty good at it. But I have been lucky enough in how I am able to present and the kind of people I work for that primarily cares if I can do the job or not.

[Ltl89]

I've really gotten to where I don't give a rat's rear about it. I make my own way in a place with no protections for our sort and I think I'm doing pretty good at it. But I have been lucky enough in how I am able to present and the kind of people I work for that primarily cares if I can do the job or not.

While it's great that you are in a good position, remember that there are many in a similar situation that don't have the same luck.  It's okay if it doesn't benefit you one way or the other, but we should remind ourselves that it CAN help others.  I myself live in New York, so I have legal protections (in my area) and am fortunate to exist around socially liberal people; however, I know there are people who aren't so fortunate and can find themselves in a discriminatory situation.  Plus, it's not all about jobs.  I'd like to have a better educated public.  One of the benefits to having a large lgbt community in NY is that people generally understand us better or at the very least don't hate/fear us in the same volume they would in some other place.   We can exist and have some form of respect from society (even though there are still issues to be worked out). I think a good portion of that can be attributed to the lgbt community and it's visible presence.

[Renee]

While it's great that you are in a good position, remember that there are many in a similar situation that don't have the same luck.  It's okay if it doesn't benefit you one way or the other, but we should remind ourselves that it CAN help others.  I myself live in New York, so I have legal protections (in my area) and am fortunate to exist around socially liberal people; however, I know there are people who aren't so fortunate and can find themselves in a discriminatory situation.  Plus, it's not all about jobs.  I'd like to have a better educated public.  One of the benefits to having a large lgbt community in NY is that people generally understand us better or at the very least don't hate/fear us in the same volume they would in some other place.   We can exist and have some form of respect from society (even though there are still issues to be worked out). I think a good portion of that can be attributed to the lgbt community and it's visible presence.

Most people know I'm trans and I work in a very public job, so I'm sure there are a number of people that have found out that we aren't so bad and can be nice and pleasant and not scare their kids. I'm not super passable by any means, so I don't feel I can claim much in that regard as much of an advantage.

I will say that I've had some comments in the past about how they were surprised that I was so nice as they've had the impression that we were bitter type people in general.

I tried to get involved in the local lgbt community through pflag, but to be honest, the regular misgendering from people(lgbt) that did not know me prior to transition got to me, so I stopped associating with them.

[Miranda Catherine]

I have a very good TS girl friend whose biggest detractors are gay men, outing her if they even have a clue that she might be trans. I haven't had any real dealings with the gay community, because I simply live as a woman and that's all I've ever wanted to be. I've heard lots of stories about gay men looking down on the trans community, and if I actually heard a gay man say something I think I'd have to say something. My last relative found out I'm transsexual a week ago, and she asked me, "So, are you gay now?" I told her, "No Pat, I'm a straight, heterosexual woman, just like you." She acted like she understood, but I doubt it.

[MaidofOrleans]

My mom always pushes me to be more involved and "close" to the community (LGBT) because she thinks we are all one happy family. I honestly don't have any desire to. I have a few GLB friends and they are all super cool with me but I know that someone having a GLB status doesn't always mean they are going to be friendly.

[Kate G]

Sometimes and a lot of times people put transexual and gay/lesbian in the same container. For example when i search transgender community in my country i always found LGBT community not just T community. it bothers me a lot because it is a very different thing. But what about you guys?

LGB is sexual orientation, T means something different to everyone.  For years I sought to have those who believed in me as a male accept me as female but the harder I tried,the less accepted I felt.  What I didn't realize was that I was throwing a contradiction in their face.  Women don't seek to be accepted as women and they certainly don't turn it into a conversation or a mantra or a political movement.

I found as someone who transitioned that the only way I could truly feel accepted as a female was to experience being female the same way that other females have experienced for themselves, having been accepted as female since the dawn of time, like any other female.  The moment I had a story to tell or a secret to share was the moment I stopped being accepted as a female.

I assume that the Political T helps some people but to my knowledge I have never benefited from it myself.  I have worked in jobs where if it had been known that I transitioned, I might have been killed and rumors made my life stressful and a nightmare, causing me so much stress and worry that I would throw up as soon as I started driving home.  It was a stress thing for those who cannot relate.

Why did I continue working in a situation like that?  Well I didn't want to loose my home and end up being victimized in the streets.  In part it is a testimony as to how important it is to me to just be female.  Perhaps I could never get a nice job where "my kind" was protected but even if I could it would kill me a little each day.  That is how I feel when I am around non trans men and women who think they know "a secret" about me, like I am dying, even around family members.

All I ever wanted was to be accepted as female and when that happens I feel healthy, when it is not happening I feel like my life is all wrong and it can be quite overwhelming.  I feel like a joke for other people to laugh at and talk about behind my back.  People have been raising trans awareness for some time now which has made my life quite difficult.  Maybe it helps some people who are early in transition, maybe some people enjoy being known as trans.  I don't know.

What I do know is that by including ourselves in the GLBT we are communicating to people that we like to have sex and that we like to have sex as [insert preferred gender].  It sends a strange sexual-ized message to people and no one seems to eat that message up more than GLBs.

People don't understand you as you are, they understand you as they are.  Best to avoid being the subject of "understanding" in my opinion.  Best to avoid being a subject of conversation when it comes to gender, unless you don't mind the attention.  In a perfect world I would just be female and not a political movement.  In short it bothers me when people don't experience me as me, what people do with transsexual and gay/lesbian is up to them, I'm just me and that in fact is what my transition was all about in the first place.

[Lesley_Roberta]

LGB is sexual orientation, T means something different to everyone.  For years I sought to have those who believed in me as a male accept me as female but the harder I tried,the less accepted I felt.  What I didn't realize was that I was throwing a contradiction in their face.  Women don't seek to be accepted as women and they certainly don't turn it into a conversation or a mantra or a political movement.

I found as someone who transitioned that the only way I could truly feel accepted as a female was to experience being female the same way that other females have experienced for themselves, having been accepted as female since the dawn of time, like any other female.  The moment I had a story to tell or a secret to share was the moment I stopped being accepted as a female.

I assume that the Political T helps some people but to my knowledge I have never benefited from it myself.  I have worked in jobs where if it had been known that I transitioned, I might have been killed and rumors made my life stressful and a nightmare, causing me so much stress and worry that I would throw up as soon as I started driving home.  It was a stress thing for those who cannot relate.

Why did I continue working in a situation like that?  Well I didn't want to loose my home and end up being victimized in the streets.  In part it is a testimony as to how important it is to me to just be female.  Perhaps I could never get a nice job where "my kind" was protected but even if I could it would kill me a little each day.  That is how I feel when I am around non trans men and women who think they know "a secret" about me, like I am dying, even around family members.

All I ever wanted was to be accepted as female and when that happens I feel healthy, when it is not happening I feel like my life is all wrong and it can be quite overwhelming.  I feel like a joke for other people to laugh at and talk about behind my back.  People have been raising trans awareness for some time now which has made my life quite difficult.  Maybe it helps some people who are early in transition, maybe some people enjoy being known as trans.  I don't know.

What I do know is that by including ourselves in the GLBT we are communicating to people that we like to have sex and that we like to have sex as [insert preferred gender].  It sends a strange sexual-ized message to people and no one seems to eat that message up more than GLBs.

People don't understand you as you are, they understand you as they are.  Best to avoid being the subject of "understanding" in my opinion.  Best to avoid being a subject of conversation when it comes to gender, unless you don't mind the attention.  In a perfect world I would just be female and not a political movement.  In short it bothers me when people don't experience me as me, what people do with transsexual and gay/lesbian is up to them, I'm just me and that in fact is what my transition was all about in the first place.

What Kate said.

I am not homophobic, but really, I don't want my problems to be a rallying cry for them, and I would rather not be associated with their objectives.

I don't like how everyone associates me with persons of a sexual preference.

Because my problem is not about sexual preference.

I'd rather have no damn laws at all, and no connection at all with persons of sexual preference.

I'd rather be stuck taking a pee in the men's room dressed like a woman feeling like a woman, and forced to pee next to a man wondering WTF? next to me. I mean, I can always just laugh and say, 'lost a bet' we both laugh and I go about my day and not give a damn that I just took a pee next to a man that thinks I am a man that lost a bet.

My being a woman, is really, in the end, only something I need family and friends to understand. You know, I don't really care if strangers understand me. Yeah, I realize my attitude might cause some trouble for some people that might need society to cut them some slack at places like work. I'd rather be forced to keep looking for work till I found an employer that wasn't a jerk. They do exist eh. Employers that are jerks by nature, will be jerks eventually.

I will vote in the positive for a LGB requirement, because I don't hate them. But really, their problems are also THEIR problems

[MariaMx]

LGB is sexual orientation, T means something different to everyone.  For years I sought to have those who believed in me as a male accept me as female but the harder I tried,the less accepted I felt.  What I didn't realize was that I was throwing a contradiction in their face.  Women don't seek to be accepted as women and they certainly don't turn it into a conversation or a mantra or a political movement.

I found as someone who transitioned that the only way I could truly feel accepted as a female was to experience being female the same way that other females have experienced for themselves, having been accepted as female since the dawn of time, like any other female.  The moment I had a story to tell or a secret to share was the moment I stopped being accepted as a female.

I assume that the Political T helps some people but to my knowledge I have never benefited from it myself.  I have worked in jobs where if it had been known that I transitioned, I might have been killed and rumors made my life stressful and a nightmare, causing me so much stress and worry that I would throw up as soon as I started driving home.  It was a stress thing for those who cannot relate.

Why did I continue working in a situation like that?  Well I didn't want to loose my home and end up being victimized in the streets.  In part it is a testimony as to how important it is to me to just be female.  Perhaps I could never get a nice job where "my kind" was protected but even if I could it would kill me a little each day.  That is how I feel when I am around non trans men and women who think they know "a secret" about me, like I am dying, even around family members.

All I ever wanted was to be accepted as female and when that happens I feel healthy, when it is not happening I feel like my life is all wrong and it can be quite overwhelming.  I feel like a joke for other people to laugh at and talk about behind my back.  People have been raising trans awareness for some time now which has made my life quite difficult.  Maybe it helps some people who are early in transition, maybe some people enjoy being known as trans.  I don't know.

What I do know is that by including ourselves in the GLBT we are communicating to people that we like to have sex and that we like to have sex as [insert preferred gender].  It sends a strange sexual-ized message to people and no one seems to eat that message up more than GLBs.

People don't understand you as you are, they understand you as they are.  Best to avoid being the subject of "understanding" in my opinion.  Best to avoid being a subject of conversation when it comes to gender, unless you don't mind the attention.  In a perfect world I would just be female and not a political movement.  In short it bothers me when people don't experience me as me, what people do with transsexual and gay/lesbian is up to them, I'm just me and that in fact is what my transition was all about in the first place.

Great post Kate! Thank you

[Lesley_Roberta]

I think I have contributed all I have to give in the topic, I am going to step out while I can

[Randi]

I am very grateful to the LGB community for including T.

The local Gay Lesbian Organization freely provides a meeting place for the transgender support group.  My city is currently considering a non-discrimination ordinance that includes T.  This would not happen without the influence and support of the G/L community.

I envy gays and lesbians because their life seems much simpler than my transsexual life.  We are indeed the "weak sisters" and I, for one, am grateful for their support.

I ask you this: What other group would support and defend us?

Randi

[Christine Eryn]

I like the idea of being able to "latch onto" a movement like LGB. I think at one point, being trans was being gay by default as far as I was concerned. In fact, for the longest time I thought I might have been gay because of my transgendered situation. So if our plight becomes more mainstream and there's more focus and understanding that comes with it, I'm all for it.

[Tessa James]

We are more than a few labels but please remember folks that many of us do self identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or queer.  Not only do we need allies but these are forums where we can continue to break down stereotypes and demonstrate how integrated we really are.  We transgender are a tiny minority and building support networks is critical for our personal growth and community understanding.  Discrimination and prejudice can come from anywhere, even within the transgender world.

Many gay men have battled the effeminate sissy crap in their lives too.  It is work but worth it when people recognize our common struggles.  People in the GLBTQ world "get it" about orientation being distinct from gender identity.  Who we love is not necessarily who we are.  A butch lesbian may be completely comfortable being a ciswoman or not.  Men who love men still don't automatically turn one another into the female.  These are stereotypes from the straight and binary world that we can address together.  Many national and international LGBTQ groups have clearly worked on our behalf.

Yes, LGBQ people can still misunderstand us and have some issues that are not at the top of our list.  Bathroom safety is not likely at the top of their list.

Take a deep breath and let's all hold hands again

[Jamie D]

There are simple facts we all need to remember.

According to a metastudy by the Williams Institute at UCLA, released in 2011, the GLBT community is represented as a proportion of the general population:

1.8% - bisexual
1.7% - gay
1.7% - lesbian
0.3% - transsexual

The GLB population is more than 10-times larger than the T population.  We are such a small group, that we might otherwise be overlooked, if we did not have allies.

And we should note that there exists overlap in our greater community in how we self-identify.  Many of us are both T and some other identity instead of "straight".  Indeed, I personally try to separate sexual orientation from gender identity as much as possible.

Also, we must remember that within any group, you are going to have the entire spectrum of bigotry and stupidity.  Gay people are going to be ill-informed about trans issues, and trans people are going to harbor their own prejudices about the GLB community.

What is important, I believe, is that we keep talking; that we work out the differences for the common good; and ignore the luddites and neanderthals to the greatest extent possible.  If I shunned every member of every group that ever spoke poorly of me, I might as well sit alone on top of a mountain, contemplating my navel.

Even if we are the red-headed stepchildren in the human rights movement, it does not mean we can't be leaders in educating the other 96% of the population about the importance of tolerance.

[Janine-Janine]

I'm perfectly happy if T is dropped from LGB. The reason, where does it end? QI has been added recently at times. This means I alone conform to two of the included letters (T and I). We might as well just list the entire alphabet. The triad was about liberation for one's sexual preferences. This muddying antagonises a worrying number of people in the gay community who IMO might otherwise be more friendly or tolerant or whatever... that includes a lot of lesbian feminists, BTW, who may not like us but would probably not exactly hate us if we weren't somehow present in their 'affairs'. Political expediency is neutered if there's tons of in-fighting, IMO.

I'm not overly bothered one way or another, to be clear. But I'd be okay with it not there.

Speaking as someone who is labeled homosexual by a lot of sources...

[MaryXYX]

Yesterday I attended a seminar about Intergenerational Issues and LGBT People at the Oxford Institute of Population Ageing.  With so many long words this is obviously going to be an ivory tower sort of seminar.  I raised an objection to the first speaker referring to "A community defined by their sexual activity".  That is how many gay men see themselves, and part of the reason trans people do not fit with the gay activists.

[Amelia Pond]

I voted yes. While sexual orientation and gender identity are very different, I don't think we would have as many rights today as we do if it wasn't for the LGB community.  Often times when new anti-gay discrimination laws are passed, they include protections for us too.

Considering that we are a much smaller group of people than the LGBs, I think it's good that we have their coattails to ride on to give our fight for rights more momentum.

Amy

[FTMDiaries]

Well, I'm kinda prejudiced in a favour of our inclusion... because I'm both G & T. Which is handy, because I could use a stiff drink.

I discussed this with one of our MtF sisters a few months ago and we agreed that T absolutely belongs as part of the LGB community, because most of us have to cross sexuality label boundaries as we transition. We are generally still attracted to the same people we always were, but the labels for that attraction change as we transition. As an example, I've gone from being labelled as straight to being labelled as gay because I've always been attracted to men. Others have always been attracted to women and so go from being labelled as lesbian to being labelled as straight. But it isn't just the labels we have to deal with; it's the identity too.

So a lot of us experience L or G (and indeed, B/P) issues on top of our trans* issues. Of course we belong.