Dressing androgynously

[Joanna Dark]

So for my new job I'm left with what to wear? i went to the job dressed in a suit so I am kinda stuck for now unless they bring it up and tell me I can or hint at it. But until then or until I have been there for six months to a year, I feel I should dress semi-male or androgynously. I mean really I am not big on business skirts and dresses so this is how I would dress if in any event. But if I buy the clothes in the women's section, they will show off my curves. I have very femme body. male clothes don't fit. So I am faced with this dilemma: hide it in baggy male clothes or dress for comfort and style but still adrogynous. My mom says just wear business causal clothes for now as the job is the most important thing. I need it to pay for SRS. before today, I had no idea how I would I felt stuck. I feel in a year or so i will be able to have surgery now. I am going to save every penny.

i was thinking this:

[A]

That picture, to me, is basically just a womanly-bodied woman dressed in absolutely male clothes. The overall picture is androgynous because the person and clothes don't fit, but I don't see how the clothes are anything but purely male. I honestly think your best option is casual-serious clothes, unless really everyone in the office is wearing stern classic business clothes. That will likely offer many more androgynous options to make you feel comfortable, in the women's section particularly.

And really, I don't begin to understand what is wrong with showing your curves. You're hired now. What do you expect? Sorry, sir, you look womanly, so you're fired? Or do you really think your breasts will go unnoticed?

My first girlfriend, prior to transitioning, while on HRT, tried her hardest to hide her breasts with the baggiest XXL t-shirts and still got stares all the time. And not sure she had even reached a B cup at the time, not to mention her body is larger than yours, which should hide things better. I think trying to hide it will only make you look awkward.

[Isabelle]

Skinny jeans, converse sneakers and a teeshirt. Simple. If everyone sees your boobs, that's a good thing cause if anyone asks, you say, yes, I'm a trans woman, my name is Joanna and I'd like it if you'd use female pronouns with me easy peasy!

[Dahlia]

Or do you really think your breasts will go unnoticed?

My first girlfriend, prior to transitioning, while on HRT, tried her hardest to hide her breasts with the baggiest XXL t-shirts and still got stares all the time. And not sure she had even reached a B cup at the time, not to mention her body is larger than yours, which should hide things better. I think trying to hide it will only make you look awkward.

That's not only because of breast development but also HRT development showing on a 'man's' face making one look like a chimeara, or too androgynous tipping the scale to the male side considering head size, overall  body sizes, comportment etc.

[Sammy]

Skinny jeans, converse sneakers and a teeshirt. Simple. If everyone sees your boobs, that's a good thing cause if anyone asks, you say, yes, I'm a trans woman, my name is Joanna and I'd like it if you'd use female pronouns with me easy peasy!

Yup! That's exactly my style except for tee. Skinny denim or velvet jeans - both look fine and velvet IMO is even more feminine. Male cut tees and buttoned shirts (both long and short sleeved) for Your bust, lol, would be totally wrong (I have A cup in Tanner 3 and M sized shirts are already getting tight in my armpits - my forward parts are pushing the fabric err...forwards ). With Your C size... You would need L or XL and even then they could be pushing out, probably... Besides, larger sizes are larger everywhere - shoulders, armlength etc so the overall impression would be like "Hey! I am Your staff scarecrow, fresh from the corn field!" (I have exactly that look in L sized jackets now...).
Besides, You can always add a sleeveless hoodie, if that's acceptable in Your company. With hoodies its kind hard to tell if they are male or female cut and with proper colors they are kinda alright .

[A]

I think you might be forgetting that she is going to be working in a relatively formal environment. Formal enough for it to actually be appropriate for her to go to the interview in a suit at least. I think that breasts or not, sneakers, t-shirts and maybe even jeans are going to raise eyebrows.

[sam79]

In reply to your OP Joanna, I think the clothes in the photo are fine. They appear on the male side of androgyny due to style and cut, but should achieve what you need if there's nothing else obvious which would give you away.

[Sammy]

I think you might be forgetting that she is going to be working in a relatively formal environment. Formal enough for it to actually be appropriate for her to go to the interview in a suit at least. I think that breasts or not, sneakers, t-shirts and maybe even jeans are going to raise eyebrows.

Well, I have no idea how formal that environment is . For example, I went to my job interview in a suit and I still have two sets of suits in my office in case I need to attend formal meetings with representatives of legislative, executive or judiciary. But in my daily work - I work for the government btw, I dont meet with people- its mostly paperwork, so I can dress "borderline casual " - atm I have black tight velvet jeans, black All Stars gumshoes (sneakers?), burgundy buttoned shirt (looks like a blouse). My boss approves this style (she would not allow shorts and sandals in the office though...), she also knows I am TG, but not that I am on hormones. The only time when I got a mild disapproval was when I tied my hair with rubber band (she did not say me to take it out directly, but I got the message).

[Christine167]

Where I am it's polo shirts and khaki pants. We can be more formal but if you are a "guy" then our options are limited. I'm looking forward to fall and winter so that I can wear a fleece jacket. I haven't had any breast growth yet but I'd like to hide and protect them until I can brave it out enough to talk to HR and legal.

I think that Joanna is doing the right thing until she can work it out with her employer.

[Joanna Dark]

They told me business casual to casual casual. So skinny jeans, a cute top and flats or low top converses (I like em!) would be fine. i told them i will dress business casual at first which she said that works great. I am prolly going to dress like the woman in the photo. I don't know why everyone thinks they are male clothes. They are cut to flatter curves and there is no way i can hide those curves in anything other then a suit.

In reply to your OP Joanna, I think the clothes in the photo are fine. They appear on the male side of androgyny due to style and cut, but should achieve what you need if there's nothing else obvious which would give you away.

Well my 13 inch shoulders, C cup boobs, 28 inch waist and 36 inch hips tend to make me look very female lol I am pretty sure they know i am trans or suspect I have some hormonal condition. My face is femme. My BF was with his friend today and I was in one of my  "gawd i don't pass who I am kiddin'" funks and so he was with his best friend from childhood so he told him that I was trans and played a game to see if he could spot me as a man. He kept asking about every girl that passed if she was trans. And when I passed, I passed lol he said to him, "No that's a girl too definitely." He's so sweet. he;s half the reason I got the job because he kept telling me to apply for jobs as I am so talented and to take advantage of it. And that if you want laser and your SRS you need a job. I really like him.

Tangent. Sorry. Thought it was a funny story and a nice thing he did for me and the fact he doesn't mind being seen with me with his friends or family.

But I'm going shopping I'll show you the clothes later.

[A]

Uhm. Because that kind of clothes isn't remotely female at all? You can cut clothes for the body you want, if it's very heavily stereotypically male, it won't look like female clothes. Honestly I cannot in my greatest imagination efforts to stretch this to even the androgynous status. I'm sorry, but to me not only is this very male, but it's also not quite my idea of "business casual". Rather "slightly less stern business".

But I should stop. Obviously I haven't seen enough "business" to have proper judgement on its clothes, that has a very special (hard to understand) code.

[Joanna Dark]

Uh actually that is how most professional business women dress. it is the definition of androgynous female attire. I mean you reall think this woman looks like she is wearing male clothes? There are certain cuts and fabrics and stitches that make something female. I don't and won't wear a dress to work. I mean I would wear something like that or if casual what Isaballa said: skinny jeans a top and flats. I bought clothes, female ones, just like that. they fit great cause I tried them on. Not sure about the shirts. But my mom saw them and flipped ->-bleeped-<-. So there must be something female about them.

I really don't know what to do. My mom says ill be fired. of course she said if I dont stop acting femme and wear makeup I wont get the job. i got it. So there. Also, notmatter what I wear they will see the boobs. No doubt. And I dtold her what about these. I mean really you think they wont notice c cup breasts?

I should be happy and now im all stressed. At least my BF is on my side and came and saw me today.

[sam79]

Well my 13 inch shoulders, C cup boobs, 28 inch waist and 36 inch hips tend to make me look very female lol I am pretty sure they know i am trans or suspect I have some hormonal condition. My face is femme.

I've never seen a full shot of you Joanna, so hard to know what you're working with, but that description will get you in trouble 

My BF was with his friend today and I was in one of my  "gawd i don't pass who I am kiddin'" funks and so he was with his best friend from childhood so he told him that I was trans and played a game to see if he could spot me as a man. He kept asking about every girl that passed if she was trans. And when I passed, I passed lol he said to him, "No that's a girl too definitely." He's so sweet. he;s half the reason I got the job because he kept telling me to apply for jobs as I am so talented and to take advantage of it. And that if you want laser and your SRS you need a job. I really like him.

Tangent. Sorry. Thought it was a funny story and a nice thing he did for me and the fact he doesn't mind being seen with me with his friends or family.

You make me smile... Nice to see you have a supporting partner in this rather extraordinary time in your life. 

[generous4]

i was thinking this:

You have me a bit confused.  The outfit you point to is going to make your breasts obvious -- after all, your bf did say they are "giant" !       You are going to be out on the first day.  So what's with all the dilly dallying about having a dilemma, hinting and hiding and so forth?

Just dress comfortably and show your curves in a normal manner, keep it at the level of dress casual they have specified.  Don't bind, just wear your normal bra and that top in the picture ...and edit away!  Be confident, proud of your shape!

[A]

Uh actually that is how most professional business women dress. it is the definition of androgynous female attire. I mean you reall think this woman looks like she is wearing male clothes? There are certain cuts and fabrics and stitches that make something female. I don't and won't wear a dress to work. I mean I would wear something like that or if casual what Isaballa said: skinny jeans a top and flats. I bought clothes, female ones, just like that. they fit great cause I tried them on. Not sure about the shirts. But my mom saw them and flipped ->-bleeped-<-. So there must be something female about them.

I really don't know what to do. My mom says ill be fired. of course she said if I dont stop acting femme and wear makeup I wont get the job. i got it. So there. Also, notmatter what I wear they will see the boobs. No doubt. And I dtold her what about these. I mean really you think they wont notice c cup breasts?

I should be happy and now im all stressed. At least my BF is on my side and came and saw me today.

I still disagree about your clothes, but looks like we have an unresolvable disagreement there. I guess being in a business setting for a while enables you to see that as something else than manly clothes.

But seriously, no, don't worry. You won't get fired. You didn't lie, did you? Actually if the interviewer didn't notice something was off, even in a suit, they weren't paying attention. Just do what you have to do, and if/when you want to come out, just do it. I really don't see the big deal about it. Only thing they might eventually maybe be angry for is that you hid it from them. Then you just tell them that you were afraid they'd judge you for it. End of story. Maybe you'll be the talk of the office for a week. Maybe.

[Sammy]

Well, when speaking about smart casual, women tend to get away with REALLY A LOT of things there (unlike guys do). Pretty much everything, if mix-matched properly and only lightly accessorised could fit into female smart casual range. And, btw, I disagree with the statement that lady in the picture above is dressed in female business woman attire - she looks like she just raided her bf's wardrobe. She does not need those trousers and that awful belt - and a plain blouse with no tie or just a bow-tie would suffice. Besides, she needs jacket

[Chelle]

This link offers a handful of androgynous-specific clothing lines and stores (some casual, some not): http://www.buzzfeed.com/lilyhiottmillis/9-androgynous-clothing-labels-you-should-know

[Joanna Dark]

Well, when speaking about smart casual, women tend to get away with REALLY A LOT of things there (unlike guys do). Pretty much everything, if mix-matched properly and only lightly accessorised could fit into female smart casual range. And, btw, I disagree with the statement that lady in the picture above is dressed in female business woman attire - she looks like she just raided her bf's wardrobe. She does not need those trousers and that awful belt - and a plain blouse with no tie or just a bow-tie would suffice. Besides, she needs jacket

Unless her BF is really small, I doubt that. yes, i agree, they don't look female. They look androgynous. That is the look I am going for: androgynous. Enough that they may think I'm wearing women's slacks but can't be sure. I want to prep the ground so it's not a giant surprise. BTW, my avatar, other then the horrid purple eyeliner, I'm not wearing makeup. That is how I look.

But those are women's clothes in the picture. Soemwomen like to dress masculine yet with a subtle femme flair. Subtle being the key. All I know is my mom is all pissed off at the clothes and they look like the ones in the picture. But it's prolly just because they are women's clothes. if I listened to her, I wouldn't have the job. Plus, in Philly, you can't be fired for gender ID and it's not like they are very femme they are andro. I just don't know what to do. My mom will say something everyday trying to break me, just not caring how that effects me. She seems perfectly willing to make me dress male even thought the consequences are terrible, i.e. I will be doing heroin within the week. She knows I'm clean and knows I got clean at the same time I started doing this.

I'm just going to follow my heart and dress andro. That is the best course of action now. In six months, Ill have the conversation and come out, if not sooner. they had to notice how femme my face is. Yet they hired me. Plus I was wearing makeup: foundation and blush and clear lip gloss. If I dress andro, even if I look more male, I will be happy and that is what counts. if I am happy, i will be a pleasure to work with. If I dres in ill-fitting male clothes I will become depressed. Just wearing the suit made me depressed for days and then made me think I no longer passed. When I do. yesterday, they escorted me into the women's changing room and told me I should shop in the Misses department as the clothes will fit better.

[A]

Uh-huh. I'm happy it's going well for you. Whether a stranger like I (or even your mother) likes your new work clothes shouldn't matter and I'm glad it doesn't. Really I think I'm in a pretty bad/stubborn mood for some reason and I'm glad you didn't fall to my insistance about your clothes.

I'm sure things will go really well. And hopefully your mother will understand at some point, seeing how you're much happier the way you are.

Good luck! Not that I think you need it.

[Joanna Dark]

Uh-huh. I'm happy it's going well for you. Whether a stranger like I (or even your mother) likes your new work clothes shouldn't matter and I'm glad it doesn't.

yeah i just ant to be comfy so i can be an energetic happy person to work with. In their ad they said they wanted an energetic, enthusiastic and vibrant person. They said that because they couldn't say we want a female. because that is how you can describe most females. But males don't act that way. I do as long as I am dressed in a way i feel comfy and stylish. Fashion matters a lot to me. In fact I am watching a marathon of ANTM (Top Model). And I feel like I willl be comfy if I know I am wearing women's clothes, cause I am a woman, hormonally and now that I have this job, it will soon be vaginally as well.

I am going to take some of the clothes back as the sports bra set I bought is a 44. Bleh. I though it said 34. Though I am a 32. All I need is another another nice pair of slacks and two tops or clouses. There isn't many andro clothes though. I looked. I found these one blouses from Jones NY and they were PERFECT! But they were $62. Ugh.

But I do know what you mean A and Emily, but I am going for andro or a woman who is dressing andro. Im afraid in the clothes I will pass as male. that will become depressing real fast. That's my main worry. This woman hired me because I have the expereince and also because I seem so pleasent. And I am.

Hopefully they havent created my email cause I am going to tell them to call me Matty. Now you know my real name. Or is that too far?